[Community-Discuss] Correction to my previous email

Christian Orozco chresgoro at gmail.com
Thu Jul 29 13:26:26 UTC 2021


There seem to be lapses that could have been avoided if only the system is
working well.

I am not trying to police everyone here but in the previous replies, there
are a few who uses sheer sarcasm to deliver their points. While sarcasm is
not totally banned, I think it is not always a good base for argumentation
as it sometimes lead to mockery. Let us be mindful of the Code of Conduct.
I should also mention that it is unjust to hastily generalize every
individual who expresses disagreement to a certain point. Thank you!


On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 5:15 PM Erick Joshua Lagon <erickj.lagon at gmail.com>

> I will give Eddy the credit for retracting his mistakes. However, what

> bothers me in his statement (in the video), is one: the other means to

> acquire funds, what other means is the AFRINIC going to do? I hope that

> AFRINIC will be transparent in this accord, for the sake of the Community.

> Second, will be the Joint RIR Stability Fund. I have seen that AFRINIC is

> the smallest contributor in this stability fund (

> https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/).

> The question is, can the AFRINIC contribute as much as their counterparts

> to the stability fund? Also, this hiccup in the operations of AFRINIC

> should trigger a sense of urgency in them to reform their system in order

> to deliver excellent services to their members.


> Regards,

> Erick


> On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 1:47 PM Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>

> wrote:


>> Paul Hjul has posted to this mailing list a number of well-reasoned

>> and eloquently articulated arguments that are more than sensible,

>> and with which I agree wholeheartedly. The quotes below are not

>> among them.


>> In message <

>> CAF4kYpvN-OqTh1-jbC5Kctg4vC6Wum62DtP8aYj+VJ9+V6Kbrw at mail.gmail.com>

>> Paul Hjul <hjul.paul at gmail.com> wrote:


>> >Hopefully the Board and management will quickly

>> >make it very clear that partnership in "building Africa's digital future"

>> >means collaboration of a global nature. It means devising consensus and

>> >action that is aimed at promoting a true digital future and distancing

>> from

>> >the deleterious xenophobic and regionalist attitudes and discourse that

>> >flares up.


>> Paul, this is the second time that you have injected these dual epithets,

>> "xenophobic" and "regionalist" into the conversation here. I personally

>> feel that these terms are both distracting and beneath the otherwise

>> admirable level of your discourse. Further, I am not even persuaded

>> that the term "regionalist" even is an epithet, even though it is clear

>> that you intend us to interpret it that way.


>> What is the opposite of "regionalist"? "Globalist"? Assuming so, I would

>> be more than happy to debate you, ad infinitum, on the question of whether

>> "globalism", writ large, has or has not improved the lot of the lower

>> classes globally, and specifically in the third world, or whether its

>> primary economic effects have been to make mega-billionaries even richer

>> to the point where they can now commute to space via their own private

>> rocket ships.


>> Paul, if you're going to trumpet the beneficial effects of globalist

>> capitalism, then you had best be prepared also to defend its less

>> desirable effects as well. Is it right or proper or fair that a

>> poor sharecropper in Kenya should go hungry or that his daughter

>> should lose an eye for want of a surgeon, all because speculators in

>> New York have decided amongst themselves that the global price of

>> bulk coffee should be cut in half this week?


>> >This brings me back to the fact that the best way to manage the risk

>> which

>> >is plaguing the organization is to get as much dispute resolution handled

>> >outside of potentially organization shattering litigation.


>> So you are in favor of unilateral disarmament on the part of AFRINIC?

>> You want them to go cap in hand to all three of the parties that are

>> current suing them and beg for a negotiated settlement in each case?


>> Maybe we should make you the next U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan.


>> >The membership

>> >simply do not know how many litigants there are knocking at Afrinic


>> Objection your honor! Speculative. Calls for a conclusion not based on

>> the facts in evidence.


>> I might as well speculate that there are just oodles and oodles of people

>> and companies lining up, as we speak, to sue -you-. (How do we know

>> there aren't? Can you prove that there aren't any such?)


>> >but it

>> >is quite clear that there are several cases that need to be handled

>> >appropriately and to date the organization has crafted an environment

>> >favouring a litigious approach.


>> I'll be blunt. That is utter rubbish. AFRINIC did the Right Thing by

>> reclaiming blocks of IP addresses which had been -provably- stolen from

>> its free pool. Two of those thieving companies sued, apparently based

>> on nothing other than bogus disinformation that they themselves had

>> manufactured out of their... well... out of thin air. Nothing AFRINIC

>> did in either of those two cases consitutes "crafting an environment

>> favouring a litigious approach". That is an utterly false, disingenuous,

>> and slanderous claim with no basis in fact and I encourage yoy to retract

>> it.


>> More recently, AFRINIC, acting on information that none of us has yet even

>> seen, made a decision to reclaim a great deal of IPv4 space from a

>> different

>> party. In the wake of that decision, THE OTHER PARTY initiated legal

>> action.


>> Once again, your narrative of AFRINIC "crafting an environment favouring

>> a litigious approach" falls flat in the cold light of day and the actual

>> facts.


>> I'm damn glad that you are not the CEO of my bank. It seems that if you

>> were, and if the place got robbed, you would just throw up your hands and

>> say "Oh well! Boys will be boys!"


>> If the bank got robbed three times in a row, you would blame it on the

>> bank and urge the bank president to sit down in arbitration with the

>> various robbers.


>> We've seen this kind of thing where I live. Not recently but in the past.

>> Some people occasionally claim that women who have been molested have only

>> themselves to blame because they were wearing skirts that were too short.

>> Blame the victim. We don't do this too much here in the U.S. anymore, as

>> the practice has been well and widely discredited. The blame now properly

>> goes to the perpetrators, NOT to the victims.


>> Let's be clear about who, exactly, has "crafted an environment favouring

>> a litigious approach". AFRINIC is currently facing three legal actions

>> against it. Who initiated each and all of those?


>> I'll give you a hint. It wasn't AFRINIC.


>> What AFRINIC has done may be right or may be wrong, but AFRINIC is not

>> the party that has initiated these legal actions, two of which, at

>> least, are based on some of the most provably outrageous frauds ever

>> conceived by the mind of man.


>> It seems however that you want AFRINIC to sit down amicably with those

>> thieves and negotiate with them so that they each get to keep half of

>> what they have provably stolen. Doing so would only add disgrace to

>> dishonor, and I, for one, sincerly hope that AFRINIC does not do so.



>> Regards,

>> rfg


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