[Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business

[Leo S]

Hi Owen,

I don't know how much you know about your employer.
Cloud Innovation Ltd no employees and equipment. Cloud Innovation Ltd
Authorize these IP address authorization to LARUS Hong Kong doing lease
business. All the LOA I received came from LARUS Hong Kong

LARUS does have employees but AFRINIC assigned the address to Cloud
Innovation Ltd, a paper entity (brief case companies.) with no employees,
equipment and services.


On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 1:12 PM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:


>

>

> On Jul 25, 2021, at 09:26 , Leo S <leoso at afcast.com> wrote:

>

> Exactly, I am not particularly opposed to their IP leasing business. With

> the current exhaustion of IP addresses, many small ISPs have no choice but

> to obtain IP addresses from them. Large ISPs will choose to purchase IP

> addresses directly. such as alibabacloud.

> The current situation poses risks to users who rent their IP addresses. I

> think the problem itself is AFRINIC's own problem. Who allocated 7 million

> addresses to them? As far as I know, even providers like OVH do not have 7

> million IP addresses. And a paper company can get 7 million IP addresses.

>

>

> Now you have wandered into an inappropriate and false accusation.

>

> Cloud Innovation is NOT a “paper company” or a “shell corporation”. It is

> a legitimate business with customers, revenue, accounting, and provides (by

> your own admission) a valuable service to the IP number using community.

>

> Indeed, a service you found useful and valuable at one time.

>

> I don’t know who OVH is, but I can say that in general, Cloud Innovations

> address space is well utilized and their record-keeping is some of the most

> meticulous I’ve observed in the industry.

>

> Every customer provides a needs justification that would be accepted by

> virtually any RIR they could apply to and CI is careful not to lease to

> spammers and other miscreants.

>

> They are very responsive to abuse complaints and terminate problem

> accounts very quickly.

>

> In short, they are a real company providing a real and valuable service to

> the internet and a model citizen of the IP number resource using community

> with the exception that there is some controversy surrounding the idea of

> leasing numbers without a connectivity contract.

>

> What is truly silly about this is that in reality, it would be trivial for

> them to create connectivity to eliminate this controversy while still

> preserving exactly the same business model in a number of ways. Should the

> community pass a policy that prohibits leasing without connectivity, it

> will be a simple (though inconvenient) matter for Cloud Innovation to

> implement trivial connections to their customers while said customers

> continue to advertise their less specifics to the internet via their other

> providers.

>

>

>

> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 12:09 AM Andrew Alston <

> Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

>

>> What absolute nonsense - unless there is an NDA protecting the

>> relationship people are free to disclose.

>>

>> That’s like saying I can’t state that I buy jeans from party X - internet

>> services from party Y - or eat a particular brand of chocolate.

>>

>

> You are officially banned from Godiva… There, I said it. What are you

> going to do about it?

> :p

>

> Yes, you are correct, this is utterly silly.

>

> Owen

>

>

>> Sorry unless there are confidentiality clauses in place - absolute

>> rubbish - and if there are - that is between the buyer and the seller and

>> has nothing to do with anyone on here

>>

>> Andrew

>>

>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

>> ------------------------------

>> *From:* Meriem Dayday <meriemdayday at gmail.com>

>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 25, 2021 6:53:45 PM

>> *To:* Leo S <leoso at afcast.com>

>> *Cc:* community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>

>> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and

>> their business

>>

>> Hello,

>>

>> This is a direct violation of the CoC.

>>

>> Disclosing such information and data without the company’s consent is a

>> clear attempt of defamation and can have legal consequences on the

>> concerned person.

>>

>> Having a business or other relationship with the said company does not

>> give you the right to divulge such details on a public mailing list. That

>> is quite appalling.

>>

>> Please refrain from violating the CoC and attacking entities in such

>> manner. It can only be troublesome.

>>

>> I am urging the PDWG chairs to act immediately by sanctioning the sender

>> and deleting this delicate email from the list.

>>

>>

>> Best,

>>

>> Le dim. 25 juil. 2021 à 15:39, Leo S <leoso at afcast.com> a écrit :

>>

>> About Cloud Innovation Ltd I want to talk about their business model.

>> They got 7 Million IPv4 addresses from AFRINIC at a price of $10,000 USD

>> per year, and then leased them to ISPs or end users at a price of ~2

>> USD/year/IPv4 (large block in 2018 if Small block may be more expensive

>> maybe $3 USD) and with an annual increase of 15% fee from the price

>>

>> So the cost is $10,000 USD

>> Revenue is 7M x 2 = 14 Million

>> so it’s 150000% profit

>>

>> Part of the cost is spent on RIR community activities and seeking support

>> from members, and money will be used to defeat those who oppose it.

>> Are there any people in the world who don't love money? Those who accept

>> their money will support them in the community. and questioned any action

>> of discussion that would be detrimental to them.

>>

>> Of course, this is Lu Heng.

>> He also plundered tens of thousands of IP addresses from RIPE and A few

>> years later sold to vodafone and earned millions of dollars. He is smart

>> and knows who should pay the money to.

>>

>>

>> To rent an IP address from Cloud Innovation Ltd, you do not need to use

>> their network services and circuits. Exactly they don't provide network

>> service. and I think 90% of IP addresses are used in North America and Asia

>>

>>

>> I don't know much about AFRINIC's policy. But in ARIN you must have a

>> circuit or network service then you can rent an IP address from the

>> provider.

>>

>> The AFRINIC internal audit action may be detrimental to Cloud Innovation

>> Ltd, so they started some network services in South Africa last year as

>> Africa on cloud. but it's a small network. I think the revenue from these

>> services may account for less than 10% of their revenue. so 90% of their

>> revenue still from IPv4 address leasing business

>>

>> It can be seen from their income that they have enough money to support

>> the lawsuit against AFRINIC. And spend money in the community to fight for

>> their address not to be revoked.

>> very sad AFRINIC is too poor

>>

>> By the way, I was also their customer before

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Community-Discuss mailing list

>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>>

>> _______________________________________________

> Community-Discuss mailing list

> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>

>

>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20210727/82db8de3/attachment.html>