[Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business

[Lili Au]

Thank you Noah,

Hi everyone,

I'm afraid that I can not share the LOA since it will give them some clues.
But I can say --

- Leo is saying the truth. or even more revenue that CI earns from leasing
service. I know their pricing, I know their business model.
- As I said, CI will issue LOA to LARUS, and LARUS issue the LOA to their
client, as you guys may know CI belongs to who, and
- LARUS Limited (a company registered in Hong Kong) belongs to the guy who
we know, for those interested, please check from ICRIS(
https://www.icris.cr.gov.hk/csci/), which was created by the Hong Kong
government - Company Registry. it's public record, you just need to pay
11HKD(1.41USD) to check:)
- I don't know much about Africa on Cloud, but please check their ASN, it's
interesting when you look at those ranges:) Oh, a few months ago I received
a call before from LARUS about the election and they want me to vote for
Mr. Paul Wallner, anyone else got this call too?
- Some guys keep talking here is hired by CI or LARUS, apparently,
- Anyone can lease IP address from LARUS: https://ipv4.larus.net/, you just
need to fill in some information and pay. then you will get an LOA within
few days, most of their blocks from CI, only around 1% from other
companies(their management service)
- LARUS keep leasing out CI's IP blocks, but for those idle blocks, CI will
keep broadcast under some ASNs like AS328608 (South Africa), AS35916 (USA),
or AS134548 (HK)

At last, I got a question is When AFRINIC will open Inter-RIR transfer
policy? I'm pretty sure that CI will transfer all the IP blocks to other
RIR:)

Best

Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> 於 2021年7月27日 週二 下午9:20寫道：


>

>

> On Tue, 27 Jul 2021, 15:20 Antone Ubah, <blackboythinking at gmail.com>

> wrote:

>

>> Oh Noah,

>>

>> 'Afraid' you say? Of what? Of whom? What are my stakes? What are your

>> stakes?

>> There is an ongoing legal process between parties involved, am I wrong?

>> If anyone or group has input to that, is it not right to funnel such down

>> the appropriate channels?

>>

>>

>> Or are you the arm behind the puppets? The grand puppeteer popping up

>> characters to incite friction.🤔

>>

>

>

> As far as I know and for a fact, you Antony are a puppet associated with

> Heng Lu.

>

> I know this for a fact and enough data to prove it.

>

> Whoever Lili Au is, they have the right to speak and dont call them trolls.

>

> Noah

>

>

>

>> Then again, what are your stakes?

>>

>>

>> Lili is free to air his/her/their views, however it makes sense to do it

>> right, not for commotion sake.

>>

>>

>> Regards,

>>

>> Anthony

>>

>> On Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 8:00 AM Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:

>>

>>>

>>>

>>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2021, 14:51 Anthony Ubah, <ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com>

>>> wrote:

>>>

>>>> Didin't comms at afrinic.net already close this thread?

>>>>

>>>> Here's another bait email trolling the community.

>>>>

>>>

>>> Let Lili Au speak. What are you afraid of?

>>>

>>> Comms dont have the authority to close any thread.

>>>

>>> They only cautioned on violation of CoC.

>>>

>>> Noah

>>>

>>>>

>>>> *Best Regards,*

>>>>

>>>> *Anthony*

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 5:45 AM Lili Au <au8692936 at gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> A funny discussion. Anyway, I saw many LOA that is CI authorise LARUS

>>>>> ( a Hong Kong company too) then LARUS authorise to their clients. Leo is

>>>>> correct.

>>>>>

>>>>> —

>>>>>

>>>>> > Frank Habicht <geier at geier.ne.tz>於2021年7月27日 15:32寫道：

>>>>> >

>>>>> > Hi,

>>>>> >

>>>>> > did any of those make any commitment like "we are using these to

>>>>> connect

>>>>> > our customers in Africa" ?

>>>>> >

>>>>> > Did CI?

>>>>> >

>>>>> > Thanks,

>>>>> > Frank

>>>>> >

>>>>> > PS: I count connectivity to a VM hosted by CI as ok, but not leasing

>>>>> > just the IP to an entity without providing them any connectivity.

>>>>> >

>>>>> >> On 27/07/2021 08:24, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss wrote:

>>>>> >> If you think this is a shocking amount of address space, please

>>>>> consider

>>>>> >> the amount of space

>>>>> >> held by:

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >> Non-LIRs (end users):

>>>>> >> Hewlett Packard

>>>>> >> Apple Computer

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >> Unclear whether to classify as LIR or not:

>>>>> >> Amateur Radio (AMPR)

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >> LIRs:

>>>>> >> XFINITY/Comcast

>>>>> >> Verizon

>>>>> >> Akamai

>>>>> >> XO Communications

>>>>> >> Amazon

>>>>> >> Microsoft

>>>>> >> Google

>>>>> >> etc.

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >> The equivalent of 1.5 /10s (75% of a /9) is far less than any of the

>>>>> >> above organizations.

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >> Owen

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >>> On Jul 26, 2021, at 01:11 , Leo S <leoso at afcast.com

>>>>> >>> <mailto:leoso at afcast.com>> wrote:

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>> Hi Ronald

>>>>> >>> Maybe your number is correct, whether it is 6.3M or 7M,This is a

>>>>> >>> shocking number for everyone especially in 201x such a large block

>>>>> >>> allocated. This is not in 199x year.

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 4:25 AM Ronald F. Guilmette

>>>>> >>> <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>> wrote:

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    In message

>>>>> >>>    <

>>>>> CALm9Cbn+R9oen9+9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg at mail.gmail.com

>>>>> <mailto:

>>>>> CALm9Cbn%2BR9oen9%2B9YBjfbK5gGTcmEmZ1yhxgDfw04OTC3MxeZg at mail.gmail.com

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >>>    Meriem Dayday <meriemdayday at gmail.com

>>>>> >>>    <mailto:meriemdayday at gmail.com>> wrote:

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>> This is a direct violation of the CoC.

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    No, actually, it isn't.

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    The information about how Cloud Innovation is presently making

>>>>> use of

>>>>> >>>    it's assigned 6,291,456 AFRINIC-administered IPv4 addresses is

>>>>> >>>    effectively

>>>>> >>>    public information, and it is not difficult to derive from any

>>>>> >>>    number of

>>>>> >>>    public sources (e.g. RIPEStat, bgp.he.net <http://bgp.he.net/>,

>>>>> etc.)

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    If you lived in the time of Galileo Galilei, would you consider

>>>>> it an

>>>>> >>>    affront to public decency if some people elected to look

>>>>> through the

>>>>> >>>    telescope and then just describe what they saw?  And if so,

>>>>> then what

>>>>> >>>    is next?  Book burning?

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>> Disclosing such information and data without the company's

>>>>> >>>    consent is a

>>>>> >>>> clear attempt of defamation and can have legal consequences on the

>>>>> >>>> concerned person.

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    OK, let's parse that statement, because it conjoins two

>>>>> different

>>>>> >>>    obvious

>>>>> >>>    logical problems.

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    First, the Internet is *not* a private network.  Fact's about

>>>>> what

>>>>> >>>    various

>>>>> >>>    companies are doing on the Internet are possible to see, and to

>>>>> learn,

>>>>> >>>    without needing the consent of the companies inolved.  That is

>>>>> the

>>>>> >>>    nature

>>>>> >>>    of the Internet.  If you want to run your own closed private

>>>>> intranet,

>>>>> >>>    then go head.  Nobody will stop you and you can then keep every

>>>>> last

>>>>> >>>    detail of your corporate operations utterly secret.  But the

>>>>> >>>    minute any

>>>>> >>>    company obtains Internet number resources and starts using

>>>>> those, it

>>>>> >>>    *voluntarily* gives up some of its corporate secrecy in exchange

>>>>> >>>    for being

>>>>> >>>    a part of, and a participant on this great communications

>>>>> >>>    experiment we

>>>>> >>>    call the Internet.

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    I personally am not now, and never have been a customer of Cloud

>>>>> >>>    Innovation.

>>>>> >>>    And yet even well before today I already determined for myself

>>>>> >>>    that well

>>>>> >>>    more that 90% of Cloud Innovation's assigned

>>>>> AFRINIC-administered IPv4

>>>>> >>>    address space was being deployed to other continents.  This is

>>>>> not

>>>>> >>>    a state

>>>>> >>>    secret by any means, and the information may be derived from

>>>>> 100%

>>>>> >>>    public

>>>>> >>>    sources.  Anyone clever enough to seek it out will find the same

>>>>> >>>    information.

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    Whether the manner in which Cloud Innovation is using/deploying

>>>>> its

>>>>> >>>    assigned number resources does or does not comport with its

>>>>> specific

>>>>> >>>    RSA and/or with community approved regulations is a separate

>>>>> question,

>>>>> >>>    and one which I myself do not have an answer to.  In any case,

>>>>> the

>>>>> >>>    courts will sort out those questions in due course, I imagine.

>>>>> >>>    But the

>>>>> >>>    mere facts of how Cloud Innovation has deployed its

>>>>> AFRINIC-assigned

>>>>> >>>    resources, or how it would appear to make money, based on the

>>>>> >>>    available

>>>>> >>>    public evidence, are *not* corporate secrets.  Any attempt to

>>>>> portray

>>>>> >>>    them as such is just an attempt at heavy-handed censorship.

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    The second logical problem with the statement above is contained

>>>>> >>>    in the

>>>>> >>>    part that says "... attempt of defamation and can have legal

>>>>> >>>    consequences

>>>>> >>>    on the concerned person."

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    Exactly so!  If the guy who posted the material you are reacting

>>>>> >>>    to was

>>>>> >>>    willing to take the legal risk to post that material, IN SPITE

>>>>> OF the

>>>>> >>>    possibility that he could, at least in theory, be sued for

>>>>> defamation,

>>>>> >>>    then why are YOU worried about it?  Why should AFRINIC be

>>>>> worried

>>>>> >>>    about

>>>>> >>>    it?  Obviously, this (theoretical) possibility of a defemation

>>>>> lawsuit

>>>>> >>>    is only a problem for the guy who posted the (allegedly)

>>>>> defamatory

>>>>> >>>    text, and he obviiously was willing to take the risk in order to

>>>>> >>>    express

>>>>> >>>    his opinion, SO WHAT IS THAT TO YOU?

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    Here again, shouting down in the original poster in this manner

>>>>> >>>    appears

>>>>> >>>    to me to be just another a heavy-handed attempt at pointless

>>>>> >>>    censorship.

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    I hope that we here can all have open and frank discusions of

>>>>> all

>>>>> >>>    of the

>>>>> >>>    issues now of concern to AFRINIC without these kinds of

>>>>> attempts to

>>>>> >>>    muzzle dissenting viewpoints based on perfectly silly arguments.

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    Regards,

>>>>> >>>    rfg

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>>    _______________________________________________

>>>>> >>>    Community-Discuss mailing list

>>>>> >>>    Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:

>>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

>>>>> >>>    https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

>>>>> >>>    <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

>>>>> >>>

>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________

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>>>>> >>

>>>>> >>

>>>>> >> _______________________________________________

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>>>>> >>

>>>>> >

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