[Community-Discuss] AFRINC being sued

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ]

Hi Andrew,

 

I was not speaking referring to *any* of those specific block holders, because even if I read the article some months ago with all the history, I don’t recall if there was sufficient information for each one, if they were all legacy or not, etc. I’m talking in general.

 

Just saying that we should have that information publicly available from AFRINIC, not articles, as a matter of transparency, and that those questions are the ones to be responded.

 

You’re right that legacy holders aren’t bound to our policies, unless they have obtained other resources and signed the RSA, but again, I was talking in general without stating or even knowing if those resources are/aren’t legacy.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 20/8/20 10:58, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> escribió:

 

Hi Jordi,

 

So, again you’re making suppositions.

 

Firstly – you are assuming that the people who had their space transferred out from under them would have received any notification whatsoever if this was a database modification – there is no guarantee of that.

Secondly – you are neglecting the fact that legacy resources are not bound by the same policies and rules and never have been.  The logic in this is pretty simple really.  Legacy resources were transferred into AfriNIC from other RIR’s.  This was done without the willing consent of the holders of said space, and therefore, at least my understanding of this is, you cannot impose the rules of a new organization on someone who had their space transferred to AfriNIC without their willing agreement.  To do so would almost certainly be open to challenge, since you are binding someone to a contract that they never agreed to be bound to.

 

Hence – if the space is legacy – and they chose not to update the database – no they are NOT in violation – because the rules are different when it comes to this space.  

 

Andrew

 

 

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net> 
Sent: Thursday, 20 August 2020 11:50
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINC being sued

 

Hi Andrew,

 

May be an English nit, but in Spanish when I say “involved” in this context, it means “those that participated in the illegal/against the CPM action”.

 

 

The CPM and RSA allows the board for those “involved” to cancel the account. No need for waiting for any courts decision. I understand this is what has been done, I was just wondering if we were in case 1, 2, or 3. I think it will be good to know and this is not information that need to be hidden until the court decision, the community has the right to know that *now*, as it can help to clarify if we need better policies, or whatever, to avoid that in the future.

 

I understand that some resources may have been transferred without the knowledge of the legitimate holders. However, if you’re a holder and you didn’t realized that, it means that you’re not updating your records? It means that you’re not using those resources? Is not all that also against the CPM/RSA?

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 20/8/20 10:35, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> escribió:

 

Jordi,

 

“All the involved resource-holders should lose their rights”

 

This assumes that the resource-holders who have legitimate rights to the IP space had any awareness of the transfers – which in this case is not reality – the transfers were illegitimate the IP space was stolen from the resource holders.  So – what you are proposing is to penalize those who had resources stolen from them without their consent or knowledge.

 

I point out that it has already been public acknowledgement over the fact that there are criminal proceedings on going against a former member of staff who was allegedly involved in the theft of these resources – please – lets not fan the flames by making inflammatory suggestions that don’t take into account all of the facts as currently known.

 

Andrew

 

 

 

From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net> 
Sent: Thursday, 20 August 2020 09:44
To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINC being sued

 

I've some points here:

1) Were those transfers done following the Intra-RIR policy? Or it happened before that policy existed?
2) Were those transfers inter-RIR?
3) In any case, were those transfers authorized by the staff (according to the CPM)?

If any of those questions indicate that the CPM has not been followed, all those resources should be claimed back and the involved resource-holders should lose their rights and the membership account closed, right?

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet



El 19/8/20 23:04, "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com> escribió:

For those few of you who may not already be aware of this...

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/363694-man-connected-to-african-ip-address-heist-sues-afrinic.html

As many of you might imagine, I will have more to say about this in due
course.


Regards,
rfg

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