[Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Gregoire Ehoumi gregoire.ehoumi at yahoo.fr
Thu Dec 20 15:14:22 UTC 2018

Mr Alston, 

You suddenly discovered a bug in the system? Congrats 

But I see no bug . The normal course of proceedings follow the RSA then the policies and the BCP's.

So let's stop playing and confusing the community...

------ Original message------From: Andrew AlstonDate: Thu, Dec 20, 2018 8:10 AMTo: Gregoire Ehoumi;Chevalier du Borg;Jackson Muthili;Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC;Subject:Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to	Meeting -

And that raises the question - what happens when the policies conflict with the rsa.....

Because there is a clear conflict there


Liquid Telecommunications - Group Head Of IP Strategy


From: Gregoire Ehoumi >

Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 16:03

To: Andrew Alston; Chevalier du Borg; Jackson Muthili

Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC

Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Andrew ,

You seem to be mixing things and on purpose.

Whether the initial submission documents are missing or that policies  do not explicitly prohibit usage out of continent, or say how Afrinic can enforce A or B is irrelevant to the discussions of putting in place a review process for a RIR.

All current and future conditions shall be factored in when doing such reviews.

Matching initial justifications is just one aspect. The conditions of service are clear on other aspects.

Also AFRINIC is a Regional Internet Registry and not yet a global registry and conditions under which a member whose *network* expand multiple regions use resources are also known.

Regarding the point about member who requested resources for dialup services and now using them for GPON breaching policies:

RSA requires that member use the resources for what they have been requested for, but  demand that in case of change in plans and usage, member to promptly, accurately and fully notify Afrinic. Failure to notify Afrinic would constitue a breach, but member
 under review will have chance to rectify the situation.


------ Original message------
From: Andrew Alston
Date: Wed, Dec 19, 2018 4:02 AM
To: Chevalier du Borg;Jackson Muthili;
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC;
Subject:Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -

Just for clarity –
If space was allocated before the soft landing policy came into force – there was no policy whatsoever that prohibited off continent use of space – so – if you got space from AFRINIC – under the allocation policies – you
 could use it off continent
If an African registered company had every piece of infrastructure off continent – nothing would stop them getting space and using it globally – that changed with the soft landing coming into force – but allocations before
 that? Didn’t matter.
The soft landing policy also was not retro-active – so the restrictions on it only apply to space allocated since it came into force.
What the policy *does* say is that space must be used in the manner described in the initial application.  Now – that’s where things get real interesting.  Firstly – there is no guidance as to how strictly AFRINIC
 could enforce this – and it’s kinda bizarre – because people who applied for space back years ago in the dial up era that want to use the space today for GPON – if their application stated they wanted it to number dial up users – technically – they would be
 in violation and subject to space reclamation.
There is also *NO* method in the policies that I could find to change the stated purpose of use – that creates a very dangerous situation should someone choose to be stupid and malicious.
Then – we get to the fact that – since AFRINIC has publically admitted that they have corrupt data going back past a certain point – there is a very high degree of probability that without the attachments – you can’t even
 tell what the space was originally applied for – and hence – if it was allocated pre soft landing – and that documentation that describes its purpose is missing – well – the responsibility is on AFRINIC to prove that you are using it for something you didn’t
 ask for – else – it’s pretty much a free for all.
By my calculations – and based on the approximate dates I have – they are missing the attachments on applications for close to a /8 worth of space… and I would argue VERY strongly that in the absence of that documentation
 – it is impossible to do a fair and impartial review of use of space – since you cannot prove what it was allocated for in the first place.
Interesting times 
From: Chevalier du Borg

Sent: 19 December 2018 08:19

To: Jackson Muthili >

Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC 

Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Issue with non-AFRINIC Fellowship to Meeting -


Hello all




Le mer. 19 déc. 2018 à 08:40, Jackson Muthili <jacksonmuthi at gmail.com> a écrit :

clearly nobody is against the general idea of the custodians of the IP

resources allocated to Africa to check that these are used for the

purpose they have been allocated to us as you put it.

it is the how.

for as long as the proposed process is prone to abuse, sorry it cant fly.

by the way, is there anything stopping AfriNIC to carry out audit as

allowed through registration service agreement (rsa)? if no, why are

we even having this discussion??



Thank you very much M. Jackson. I think we should not try to use policy where process is what is need. Since no person disagree that it is part of AFRINIC job, then it should publish a clear process that they use to do  review. 



The existence of this policy seem to mean community don't trust that such process exist and better communication may solve that. 


My first reason for start this thread is more about our PDP being broke and need to be fix to protect it from hijack some large entity. Larus particularly consern me because it say on their website, under one of their  product "IP DELEGATION
 SERVICE" (https://www.laruscloudservice.net/ip-delegation-service)



<<LARUS possesses seasoned expert in IP address policy. To focus on providing unmatched IPv4 address solutions in the world, IP addresses will be delegated to you directly from LARUS’s own IP pool. You will use the IP addresses like your
 own without limitation regarding geography and usage. This is a flexible and speedy service to meet your business needs.>>



i Are we sure these IP are not part of what Larus get from AFRINIC? 

ii If it is, is that accepted use of IP according to RSA

iii How does company that have IP to sell justify needing more address?


These are thing that make me (and other people) concern and good answer to them will make thing clear for this community. 





> Boubakar


>> For

>> me this is very bad. It means there are underlying principles in this

>> proposal that have not been properly written nor their ramifications

>> properly explained.


>> J


>> _______________________________________________

>> Community-Discuss mailing list

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Borg le Chevalier


"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat" 

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