[***SPAM***] Re: [***SPAM***] Re: [AfrICANN-discuss] DCA expresses commitment to work with African ccTLDs

[Dr Yassin Mshana]

Thank you for this communication Sir!.

Let us move on in the correct way - we will sing the same song very soon.

Kind regards

Yassin

On 23 November 2011 07:06, Ntege Badru <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> wrote:

> Dr Yassin****
>
> ** **
>
> For the sake of sticking to the facts I have no problem apologizing since
> some people miss understood the use of the terminology.  However this is
> diversionary.  Why do we always have to make things personal we need to
> rise above that.  As stated I have met the individual and believe we have a
> mutual respect for each other.  And that does not mean we cannot hold
> differing views on issues like the one in question.****
>
> ** **
>
> As long as we keep making things personal we are not going to move on.
> And we do need to move on. We are all working for the best of the continent
> which none of us has a monopoly on.  We have to meet somewhere in the
> middle, make some compromises on either side and then proceed with one
> African voice.****
>
> ** **
>
> I know it’s possible.  And I will continue to push for dialogue on the
> main issues of how we get the .africa gtld and operate it for the benefit
> of the entire continent.****
>
> ** **
>
> In future I will avoid using terminology that might be misunderstood.****
>
> ** **
>
> regards****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* africann-bounces at afrinic.net [mailto:africann-bounces at afrinic.net]
> *On Behalf Of *Dr Yassin Mshana
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:11 PM
> *To:* africann at afrinic.net
> *Subject:* [***SPAM***] Re: [AfrICANN-discuss] DCA expresses commitment
> to work with African ccTLDs****
>
> ** **
>
> Well well well, Now I is obvious that a basic rule as been broken here.....
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> One should not use the Terminology which is not clear to the public or
> target group - English saying or humor have their place not in such forum
> please - plain language is preferred = damage control? NO!****
>
> ** **
>
> A sexist remark has been directed to the Director therefore an apology is
> the least one should consider giving not to argue about language etc
> etc..It is waste of everybody's time I think.****
>
> ** **
>
> In my opinion, I see it inappropriate to use such a language (shop talk)
> in a profession space such as this.****
>
> ** **
>
> Someones conduct in public is important. ...Trust can easily be broken and
> respect goes down with it.****
>
> ** **
>
> Let DCA move on please...I for one is ready to continue with the support
> to the Yes Campaign.****
>
> ** **
>
> Kind regards****
>
> ** **
>
> Yassin****
>
> ** **
>
> On 22 November 2011 08:53, Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> wrote:
> ****
>
>
> Lerato****
>
> ** **
>
> I will not be Drawn into personal battles.  You need to read my email
> again with regard the issues and not personality.  Life has taught me that
> no one individual can be bigger than the institution.  (I think the English
> call it having a "chip on your shoulder" forget the personal issues and
> stick to the issues only)****
>
> ** **
>
> Rest of my comments in line.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
> On 22 Nov 2011, at 01:52, Lerato Mamboleo <lerato.ma at yahoo.com> wrote:****
>
> Badru,****
>
> ** **
>
> First, we think the innuendo to “beauty contest” is a very sexist remark
> which was meant to show disrespect to the person of the spearhead of the
> Yes2dotAfrica campaign.  It is very disturbing that even the slightest
> discussion about DCA and DotAfrica can no longer be conducted in a
> civilized way, without it becoming personal.****
>
> ** **
>
> The term "beauty contest" is often used in business when we go into
> bidding which Basicaly means the firm that has the best all round solution
> wins.  As per my earlier email it was not aimed at any individual.****
>
> ** **
>
> For your information I have met the individual you seem to think I refer
> to here and we might have differences in views but I have a level of
> respect.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Let me ask that as long as you are reading my emails please remove the
> personality cloud that seems to be derailing our discussions.  What we are
> debating is not for personal gain but for the community. ****
>
> ** **
>
>
>
> ****
>
>  Therefore, for this very unnecessary allusion to ‘beauty contest’ that
> was done in bad taste to reflect the gender of the DCA Executive Director,
> we demand an immediate and unreserved apology, and a retraction of the
> offensive sexist statement.  She is a very well educated, articulate and
> very capable woman, and we think such sexist remarks have been deliberately
> made to reduce from her important accomplishments regarding the DotAfrica
> initiative, which that she has led successfully over the last few years. We
> think it is also ‘cultural’ in Africa to show respect for women, and not to
> see them only from the perspective of ‘physical beauty’. We must add that
> such thinking and objectification of women is very retrogressive.w****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> The apology might be that you seem to personalize issues.  Please take
> time and read my email in full.  Its paragraphs like the above that seem to
> take us back to this diversion.  The leadership of DCA could be anyone but
> if the facts and aims are divergent as they are to me now I would have
> written the same text.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> Please spend some more time in the active community where we have done
> allot of gender work and you would not be going off tangent like that. ( I
> say that not as an insult but a figure of speech). ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
>
> ****
>
> Having clearly expressed the above, we wish to now clarify that DCA is *not
> looking to capitalize on anything regarding its plans for DotAfrica.* The current ICANN gTLD programme to expand the Internet DNS to encompass
> new geographical TLDs like DotAfrica is NEW and DCA has done its level best
> to campaign and actively promote it, and involve key stakeholders, and in
> the process managed to win key supportive endorsements for the initiative
> it proposed.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> From a technical point and communications point this is visible but does
> not mean it is the right strategy and I think as an individual I have a
> right to hold a different view.****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> In spite of this, DCA has unfortunately suffered alienation and
> victimization at the hands of the so called "leaders" of ‘community’, and
> the relationship so far has been typified by, at best, indifference to the
> positive works of DCA, and at worst acrimony; that is, as you have rightly
> admitted, “the history of acrimony” which has manifested itself as the open
> hostility displayed towards DCA.  Even now, DCA is being antagonized simply
> because it received a positive press coverage which its detractors have
> tried to detract from, by turning the discussion into a series of personal
> attacks on the spearhead of the Yes2DotAfrica campaign.****
>
> ** **
>
> In one of my emails I pointed to understanding the complex geopolitical
> landscape that we have on this continent and the need to embrace it as
> opposed to fighting it.  This means investing in the grass roots but also
> learning from and with those who came before.   You refer to African
> culture earlier in this email.  Culture tells us exactly that but to date
> DCA seems not to value that. And again I might be wrong or I have not seen
> evidence.****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> As you have already noted that “DCA might have a good strategy on paper,
> and might be able to lobby and mobilize well”, it is therefore important
> that we all recognize that DCA has also made very important contributions
> in building a larger ‘constituency’ to support the DotAfrica initiative
> both at the continental and global levels. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Therefore, DCA’s *real intention* is to contribute to the continent based
> on its DotAfrica initiative.  On the other hand, the African Internet
> Community has engaged in “training and positive sensitization” in the past,
> the point is that such training and sensitization was not related directly
> to DotAfrica, the topical issue of the moment. ****
>
> ** **
>
> I'm always willing to be educated and would like clarification how
> training by the different Af* initiatives does not relate here.****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> DCA has always wanted cooperation with the community, but our experience
> so far reveals a deliberate strategy that aims to constantly undermine our
> efforts.  You talk of dialogue and combining forces for an “inclusive
> African solution”, but where is the trust? How can trust be established in
> the present circumstances?****
>
> ** **
>
> Trust is earned not given.  And they have been a number of issues where
> the little trust that DCA had earned was quickly eroded by subsequent
> activity and we just need to learn from those incidents.  ****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> We all know that DotAfrica is a geographic TLD, but the community wants it
> to be operated for its benefit as a community TLD.  Thus there is already a
> clear difference in vision, and we recognize this as a huge impediment that
> cannot be transcended at this point. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Yes it's a global TLD but the benefits/proceeds should all be ploughed
> back in the community.  ****
>
> That is what is called community benefit. ****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Therefore, we believe that a good starting point for honest dialogue is
> for the ‘community’ to first of all recognize, and accept DCA’s prior
> endorsement for the DotAfrica gTLD that was obtained from the African
> Union. In our estimation, this would help restore trust between and amongst
> us to enable the commencement of the fruitful dialogue that would form the
> basis of the cooperation that you believe is possible.****
>
> ** **
>
> Pre conditions in negotiations have never worked.  I would see this as a
> show stopper. (my personal view)****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> However, if the leaders of the ‘community’ refuse to openly acknowledge
> DCA’s prior AU Commission endorsement for DotAfrica,   DCA will continue
> with its initiative independent of the community, since DCA’s aims in terms
> of its mission and purpose for the DotAfrica gTLD is quite different from
> the aims of the community regarding DotAfrica, since DCA’s outreach efforts
> are to a larger Pan-African constituency.****
>
> ** **
>
> I think my views on this are clear.  ****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Finally, DCA hereby reiterates that it is simply committed to the ICANN
> new gTLD programme and would abide by its stipulations and other conditions
> and instructions enshrined in the Applicant’s Guidebook.  Therefore, to
> those who have expressed a wish to know about DCA’s corporate information,
> even though we believe that the request by one who is openly adversarial to
> DCA is simply fueled by a frivolous and malevolent desire, we would like to
> inform such persons that all necessary information and data will be
> submitted with our DotAfrica gTLD application at the appropriate time to
> ICANN as the only authorized body to perform administrative and other
> background checks on every application.  Let ICANN evaluate DCA’s
> eligibility and suitability or otherwise to apply successfully for the
> operation of the DotAfrica gTLD and the registry, and DCA will accept the
> outcome of that globally-approved governance process that will determine
> whether the new DotAfrica gTLD will be delegated or not delegated. ****
>
> ** **
>
> I get totally confused. On one hand you are open to dialogue on the other
> you are committed to a strategy that you will take regardless.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> I rest my case still urging sticking to the issues ****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
> *To:* "africann at afrinic.net" <africann at afrinic.net>
> *Cc:* "africann at afrinic.net" <africann at afrinic.net>
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 20, 2011 10:26 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AfrICANN-discuss] DCA expresses commitment to work with
> African ccTLDs
>
>
>
>
> On 20 Nov 2011, at 20:16, Dr Yassin Mshana <ymshana2003 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > That is a good move - DCA to work with African partners!!.
> >
> > My small question after several months of rumble but no rain is that,
> > "where was everybody since 2004?" -  Now that when DCA and supporters
> > is about to take the lead in .africa it has suddenly become a big
> > issue" - Even drawing Hon Ministers into the middle of it all.
>
> Many people have been building the capacity and sustainability that DCA is
> looking to capitalize on now.  Its not just a beauty contest its a case of
> what substantial contribution have you done for the community.  Let's not
> forget that a good foundation is very important for long time
> sustainability.  I think if you go back since 2004 and compare how much
> training and positive sensitization both parties have done we can start on
> some positive discussions.
>
> After all is done we want an inclusive african solution. We already have a
> number of them to show with over 10 years of Positively working on the
> continent.  I do not see why we are now trying to re-invent the wheel.  Yes
> DCA might have a good strategy on paper and might be able to lobby and
> mobilize well, but what else ?
>
> For the sake of the community, we need to have some humility.
>
> I do think there could be room for compromise if the real intention of DCA
> is to contribute to the continent in a way others have to date.
>
> Let's dialogue this is not a simple commercial deal but if done well could
> have a fundamental positive impact on our continent.  Give the community
> some respect and put the pure facts on the table, forget the semantics,
> forget who said what when, lets look at who is capable to take us where we
> want to go and the evidence that they will be able to do that.  But also
> the value of  either combining forces for an eventual single solution which
> I hope is not too late due to the history of acrimony.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > One wonders what is the role of GAC if  Africans draw Hon Ministers
> > into the middle of ICANN Process. That kind if discussion would have
> > been done at Home and come into the meeting with a    well defined
> > Agenda - not 'start cooking with the chief guests'
> >
> > Enough has been said before the ICANN-42...... why kick the dust now?
> >
> > That is to politely ask fellows ad friends to be strategic and
> > professional - not to put sand into the flour.....
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Yassin
> >
> >
> > On 19/11/2011, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> http://www.africasciencenews.org/en/index.php/technology/45-hitech/217-dca-expresses-commitment-to-work-with-african-cctlds
> >>
> >>
> >> So the strategy seems to be to split ccTLDs as many ccTLDs from AfTLD
> >> who are also making a competing bid for .africa. ??
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> McTim
> >> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
> >> route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> AfrICANN mailing list
> >> AfrICANN at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/africann
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > c/o DFID-Sierra Leone
> > 5 Off Spur Road
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> > Freetown
> > SIERRA LEONE
> >
> > Skype: yassinmshana1
> >
> > Mobile:+23276926697
> > Fax:  (+232) 22235769
> > Do You really NEED TO PRINT THIS?
> > _______________________________________________
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> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/africann
> _______________________________________________
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> ****
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> --
> c/o DFID-Sierra Leone
> 5 Off Spur Road
> Wilberforce
> Freetown
> SIERRA LEONE
>
> Skype: yassinmshana1
>
> Mobile:+23276926697
> Fax:  (+232) 22235769
> Do You really NEED TO PRINT THIS?
>
>
> ****
>
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>


-- 
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5 Off Spur Road
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Skype: yassinmshana1

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Fax:  (+232) 22235769
Do You really NEED TO PRINT THIS?
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