<div dir="ltr">Hi All,<div><br></div><div>I agree with what Saul has said here. I also want to make some notes on rough consensus because reading through recent messages, some participants seem unaware of how rough consensus is achieved.</div><div><br></div><div>Firstly - Rough Consensus as used in the RIR system largely stems from rough consensus as defined in RFC7282 (<a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7282">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7282</a>)</div><div><br></div><div>The essence of this is that there are two basic principles: First, objections are given more weight than support; second, objections must be grounded in fact and evidence. If 100 people support something, but there is one strong, evidence-backed technical argument against it, that issue must be addressed. Note: The issue does not have to be "fixed"; however, it must be considered and the working group must agree that the issue is not substantive enough to block consensus. </div><div><br></div><div>Regarding the ongoing last call for the as-set naming policy, I support it because I believe it is a sensible safeguard. Second, after reading the objections related to AfriNIC's institutional mandate and scope creep, reviewing the current AfriNIC bylaws shows this objection doesn't stand up to scrutiny.</div><div><br></div><div>Section 3.4 of the bylaws as currently written, makes it clear that policy promoting common-sense good practice for the benefit of the African internet community as a whole, is very much within AfriNIC's scope. I do not believe that this policy infringes on any institution's right to operate its network as it sees fit. It merely provides a safeguard. </div><div><br></div><div>One of the objections I saw stated that the onus is on the authors to prove that their proposal cannot be addressed via other means. This again, is inaccurate. There are many ways to accomplish the same thing, in the standards world in particular there are often multiple standards that accomplish the same goal. I would argue that it is the opponents who have a duty to prove that the proposal may cause undue harm to the community, or is outside of the scope of the PDP (or AfriNIC's mandate as defined in the bylaws). </div><div><br></div><div>Since there has been no such objection grounded in facts or evidence, I cannot see how such objections would withstand the rough consensus test.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div><br></div><div>Andrew</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 20, 2026 at 11:06 AM Saul Stein via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg8125421610837001758">
<div lang="EN-ZA" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class="m_8125421610837001758WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Actually, one’s knowledge and experience is very relevant.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Running and safeguarding the internet landscape is a very practical thing. Something that those who do, do so on a daily basis.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">People who are commenting on the practicality of running the internet and routing protocols and who have no experience in it or are even involved in it, might well have some insights
to provide.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">HOWEVER, they then need to provide fact to base comments where the technical community who are practically involved in the process are saying otherwise.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Simply repeating the same narrative which goes against global trends and those that use it raise questions about their intentions.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Nia Petronella <<a href="mailto:nonhlanhlapetronella85@gmail.com" target="_blank">nonhlanhlapetronella85@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 20 July 2026 09:46<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ben.roberts@afrinic.net" target="_blank">ben.roberts@afrinic.net</a>; <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] RPD Digest, Vol 222, Issue 81<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Ben,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Participants may introduce themselves if they choose, but an introduction should not become a condition for having an argument considered.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is an open policy forum, not a membership interview. Contributions should be assessed on their substance, not on how familiar the speaker is or how long they have been present.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nonhlanhla<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, 20 Jul 2026, 9:41 am <a href="mailto:ben.roberts@frinic.net" target="_blank">
ben.roberts@frinic.net</a> <<a href="mailto:ben.roberts@afrinic.net" target="_blank">ben.roberts@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Nonhlanhla,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Perhaps the new participants would like to introduce themselves, with some context of their new interest in IP address policy making?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Kind Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Ben<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm;border-color:currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><b><span style="color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="color:black">Nia Petronella <<a href="mailto:nonhlanhlapetronella85@gmail.com" target="_blank">nonhlanhlapetronella85@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, 20 July 2026 at 09:38<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a> <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] RPD Digest, Vol 222, Issue 81<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="m_8125421610837001758m_-8902567706227525630ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Get <a href="https://aka.ms/GetOutlookForMac" target="_blank">
Outlook for Mac</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div id="m_8125421610837001758m_-8902567706227525630mail-editor-reference-message-container">
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear PDWG,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">A pattern is becoming clear: familiar names are treated as authoritative, while newer participants are questioned, graded, or dismissed.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">That is gatekeeping, not consensus.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">An open process should test arguments, not reputations. Participation is evidence and objection; being well known does not create a mandate to decide whose voice counts.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nonhlanhla <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, 20 Jul 2026, 9:35 am <<a href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Subject: Re: [Last Call] Draft Policy Proposal ? Hierarchical<br>
Names for New AS-SETs (AFPUB-2026-ASN-001-DRAFT02) (Thulisile Mazomba)<br>
2. Re: [Last Call] Draft Policy Proposal ? Hierarchical Names<br>
for New AS-SETs (AFPUB-2026-ASN-001-DRAFT02) (Tshepo Masuku)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 07:24:43 +0000<br>
From: Thulisile Mazomba <<a href="mailto:219280444@mycput.ac.za" target="_blank">219280444@mycput.ac.za</a>><br>
To: Frank Habicht <<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz" target="_blank">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>>, "<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:rpd-owner@afrinic.ne" target="_blank">rpd-owner@afrinic.ne</a>" <<a href="mailto:rpd-owner@afrinic.ne" target="_blank">rpd-owner@afrinic.ne</a>><br>
Subject: [rpd] Subject: Re: [Last Call] Draft Policy Proposal ?<br>
Hierarchical Names for New AS-SETs (AFPUB-2026-ASN-001-DRAFT02)<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:GVXPR04MB12291FB9551CD3D0ADB433FE6D1C32@GVXPR04MB12291.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">GVXPR04MB12291FB9551CD3D0ADB433FE6D1C32@GVXPR04MB12291.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
Hi Frank,<br>
<br>
An improvement is not automatically a justification for mandatory policy.<br>
<br>
The question is whether the benefit is significant enough, proven enough, and proportionate enough to place in the registry?s compulsory layer. Saying ?it helps? does not answer that.<br>
<br>
And no, raising those questions does not mean the objection came first. It means policy power should be tested before it is expanded.<br>
<br>
I remain opposed.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Thulisile<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Frank Habicht <<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz" target="_blank">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>><br>
Sent: Monday, 20 July 2026 06:36:00<br>
To: Thulisile Mazomba <<a href="mailto:219280444@mycput.ac.za" target="_blank">219280444@mycput.ac.za</a>>;
<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a> <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:rpd-owner@afrinic.ne" target="_blank">rpd-owner@afrinic.ne</a> <<a href="mailto:rpd-owner@afrinic.ne" target="_blank">rpd-owner@afrinic.ne</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] [Last Call] Draft Policy Proposal ? Hierarchical Names for New AS-SETs (AFPUB-2026-ASN-001-DRAFT02)<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
On 7/19/2026 11:29 PM, Thulisile Mazomba wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi Frank,<br>
><br>
> You appear to be treating your disagreement with an objection as proof<br>
> that no technical objection exists.<br>
><br>
> The proposal prevents one naming collision. It does not establish the<br>
> correctness of the routing data attached to that name,<br>
<br>
The proposal does not fix *all* problems. and it doesn't claim to do so.<br>
It creates an improvement.<br>
I don't agree that it is ok to object just because this proposal does<br>
not fix *all* problems.<br>
<br>
Do you agree it provides improvements?<br>
<br>
> nor prove that<br>
> mandatory registry control is the only proportionate remedy.<br>
<br>
it's not intended to prove that.<br>
<br>
><br>
> Those are technical and policy questions. Declaring them invalid does<br>
> not resolve them.<br>
They are not good reasons against the proposal.<br>
<br>
But some people maybe want to be against the proposal first and then are<br>
looking for "questions".<br>
<br>
Frank<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2026 07:34:21 +0000<br>
From: Tshepo Masuku <<a href="mailto:TshepoMasuku26@hotmail.com" target="_blank">TshepoMasuku26@hotmail.com</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>, "<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz" target="_blank">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz" target="_blank">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [rpd] [Last Call] Draft Policy Proposal ? Hierarchical<br>
Names for New AS-SETs (AFPUB-2026-ASN-001-DRAFT02)<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:VI2PR04MB10545520811A7499ACFFB1239CAC32@VI2PR04MB10545.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">VI2PR04MB10545520811A7499ACFFB1239CAC32@VI2PR04MB10545.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Hi Frank,<br>
<br>
You keep positioning yourself as the referee of which objections count.<br>
<br>
That is not your role. Participants are allowed to question whether a useful change belongs in mandatory policy. Dismissing those concerns instead of answering them turns discussion into gatekeeping.<br>
<br>
A policy room may debate. It does not grant any participant authority to police dissent.<br>
<br>
I remain opposed.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Tshepo<br>
<br>
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