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<p>Hi. This is not about making people happy really, but to do the
correct thing for the good of PDP.<br>
Does anyone without any specific interests really believe that
repeating what happened in Kampala is the right thing to do ?
Therefore.<br>
</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 30/04/2022 00:04, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAES4e9nfNY74B-08_b_00Nmh0WoHgnPxkKwxQZf7_6OkK=zd9w@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Hi ,
<div dir="auto">The problem here is we cannot agree on the
method to use. We basically have two ideas. </div>
<div dir="auto"> Why not we alternate between these two ideas. </div>
<div dir="auto">The last time we used a method the next one we
use another. That way maybe sometimes down the line we would
reach an agreement as the best method to use. </div>
<div dir="auto">This way everyone can be happy I think. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Cheers </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">AK</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 29 Apr 2022, 13:09
Fernando Frediani, <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Exactly, it is so strange the idea to have it only during
the in person event that I find to weird someone
suggesting and insisting it to be there. Wasn't it enough
the historic that happened already to keep insisting in
the mistake ?</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div>On 29/04/2022 09:00, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Dear Daniel, </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">the problem with Physical persons
present at the meeting is we repeat the mistakes of
Kampala where people are shipped into the meeting room
during the PPM and given tags and food to vote for
certain candidates. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">This people often dont even know what
AFRINIC or the PDP is and last time we witnessed even
National Antems being sang by a crowd that came in to
specifically vote for certain candidates</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">AFRINIC also reported an influx of
registration on RPD mailing list which can not be used
as a voter register considering the number of
sockpuppets who have since registered on the list but
are not active participants</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Do you want to become a co-chair, how
about you come forward and convince the WG openly here
on rpd list.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The WG could assess your ability to do
the job through your sense of communication, consensus
building, conflict management, etc…</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">--</div>
<div dir="auto">Arnaud </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le jeu. 28 avr. 2022 à
17:52, Daniel I. Yakmut <<a
href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">yakmutd@googlemail.com</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Dear Arnaud,</p>
<p>It cannot be publicly (All Stakeholders) and at
the same Resource holder only endorsement.</p>
<p>Speaking as a Resource Holder, I do not agree
with the imposition of Co-Chairs on the mailing
list. Let the selection take place during the PPM
in Mauritius, I don't have qualms if that will be
done by the limited number of persons physically
present at the meeting,</p>
<p>Simply,</p>
<p>Daniel<br>
</p>
<div>On 28/04/2022 14:32, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi please see inline</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 26
avr. 2022 à 15:32, Daniel Yakmut <<a
href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">yakmutd@googlemail.com</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Dear Arnaud
<div dir="auto">Why do we need a PDWG, if
who matters are resource holders. I will
advocate all other persons vacate the
membership of the PDWG and allow the
resource holders do what they like and
how they like</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">However, if PDWG is a
stakeholder arrangement, then we must
give everyone an equal footing. Let us
stop being Hitlers here.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Simply,</div>
<div dir="auto">Daniel</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Hmmmm… Hitler? </div>
<div dir="auto">His Majesty, Please let not
go there. Extremism never built a good
society. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I never said that only the
ressources members matter </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">iCP-2 principle (2) is
clear on the importance of the ressource
members in the « raison d’être » of a
RIR and the bylaws accepted and defined
the roles and prerogatives of each
stakeholder.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I prefer a publicly
endorsed co-chair by Resources members to
a rogue and conflicted co-chair serving
hidden agenda and third party motives.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Why is this a big issue
when the final selection of the co-chairs
is made by the WG?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Arnaud</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue,
26 Apr 2022, 12:07 Arnaud AMELINA, <<a
href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hummm ! my comments inline<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun.
25 avr. 2022 à 13:27, ABDULKARIM
OLOYEDE <<a
href="mailto:oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Dear all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>I have tried as much as
possible not to make a
comment but it seems I have
to comment on this as I
would also be making a
comment on the other
impunity the board
leadership have decided to
plunge AFRINIC into
recently. </div>
<div>1. This timeline is not
acceptable because I don't
know how Co-chairs would
emerge via the use of the
mailing list.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">We keep repeating
ourselves. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">You do know how
Policy discussions and decisions
are made on the ML, but somehow
you do not know how the
selection of Co-chairs to take
on the administrative support
role of the Working Group,
happens on the same mailinglist.
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> It was tried last time
what we ended up having are
impostors.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Impostors ? These two interim
co-chairs are respectable
community members with proven
reputation and expertise who have
done a great service so far and I
am sure, WG participants would
want them to continue.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> Two people who claimed
they emerged as consensus
candidates when some others
on the mailing did not
agree. I see no
consensus in the process.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Looks like you
still have a problem with
understanding “consensus” </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Do “objections”
mean de facto ”no consensus”? <br>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> Then I object to
criteria J. I see no
reason for this.
Endorsement from resource
members shows some form of
affiliation.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Affiliation to
who? Resource members are the
main stakeholders here,
accountable to the global
community. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The community has
witnessed sponsored Co-chairs
before who were supposed to be
participating as individuals
without motives.</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> co-chairs are not
expected to be endorsed this
way. </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Who says so ?
Even though resources members
are also part of the community,
they are the direct affected
parties by policies and
decisions made by the PDP. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">As a known and
well organised stakeholders, I
see nothing wrong with them
endorsing co-chairs or even
endorsing draft policy
proposals. <br>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>@OWEN: I hope i am not
eligible to be a board
member yet</div>
<div>Cheers </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>AK</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--<br>
</div>
<div>Arnaud<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr
24, 2022 at 6:37 AM Owen
DeLong via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div><br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Apr 23, 2022, at
09:09 , Daniel Yakmut
via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Dear
Sylvain,
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">You
answered my
questions, we can
do things when and
how we like it. It
clearly also shows
that we can
interpret laws and
rules at our whims
and caprices.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">As I
can see the spirit
of the letters of
the CPM does not
matter anymore. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The
world is a jungle
indeed. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
With beliefs like this,
you are now eligible to be
a member of the AFRINIC
board.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Owen</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Simply,</div>
<div dir="auto">Daniel</div>
</div>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On
Fri, 22 Apr 2022,
18:32 Sylvain
Baya, <<a
href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer
noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">abscoco@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear
PDWG,
<div>Hope this
email finds you
in good health!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please see my
comments below,
inline...</div>
<div><br>
Le vendredi 22
avril 2022,
Daniel I. Yakmut
via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Dear All,</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Hi
Daniel,</div>
<div>Thanks
for your
email,
brother!</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Have we
amended the
process of
selecting/nominating/electing
Co-Chairs
now? </p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please
process are
you refering
to?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Remember
that we had
agreed that
the procedure </div>
<div>available
to replace
PDWG's Chairs
is very open; </div>
<div>and it's
not seems to
be a bug in
the actual
version</div>
<div> (1.6) of
the PDP [1].</div>
<div>__</div>
<div>[1]: <<a
href="https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer
noreferrer
noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process</a>></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As you
know, the
appropriate
words are:
*choose*, </div>
<div>*nominate*,
*select*,
*selection*;
and each of
those</div>
<div> correspond
to a
particular
situation
about PDWG </div>
<div>Chairs'
tenure and
replacement.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Of course,
in case of a
replacement
after a full </div>
<div>mandate,
the
appropriate
term is:
"*nominate* </div>
<div>during the
PPM". Is it
preventing the
PDWG to do </div>
<div>whatever it
see fit before
the PPM; in
order to </div>
<div>ensure
itself that
the
*nomination*
is
successfully </div>
<div>conducted
during the up
coming PPM?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That's the
question!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><paste_CPM_section_3.3></div>
<div>
<h3
style="padding:0.5em;font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:1em;background-image:none;background-color:rgb(110,151,204);color:rgb(51,51,51);background-position:0%
0%">3.3 The
Policy
Development
Working Group
(PDWG)</h3>
<p
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">The
Policy
Development
Working Group
(PDWG)
discusses the
proposals.
Anyone may
participate
via the
Internet or in
person. PDWG
work is
carried out
through the
Resource
Policy
Discussion
mailing list (<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);text-decoration-line:underline"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">rpd@afrinic.net</a>) and the bi-annual
AFRINIC Public
Policy
Meetings
(PPM). Any
person,
participating
either in
person or
remotely, is
considered to
be part of the
Policy
Development
Working Group.</p>
<p
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">The
Policy
Development
Working Group
has two Chairs
to perform its
administrative
functions. The
PDWG Chairs
are chosen by
the AFRINIC
community
during the
Public Policy
Meeting and
serve
staggered
two-year
terms. The
term ends
during the
first Public
Policy Meeting
corresponding
to the end of
the term for
which they
were
appointed. A
term may begin
or end no
sooner than
the first day
of the Public
Policy Meeting
and no later
than the last
day of the
Public Policy
Meeting as
determined by
the mutual
agreement of
the current
Chair and the
new Chair.</p>
<p
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">If
the Working
Group Chair is
unable to
serve his or
her full term,
the Working
Group may
select a
replacement to
serve the
remainder of
the term. If
the Working
Group Chairs
are unable to
attend the
Public Policy
Meeting, the
Working Group
shall nominate
a Chair for
the session.
Anyone present
at the
meeting,
whether in
person or by
remote
participation,
may
participate in
the selection
process for a
temporary
Chair.</p>
</div>
<div></paste_CPM_section_3.3></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Because the
proposed
activities and
timeline looks
extremely
strange to
me. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div>Please,
could you
elaborate on
what you see
as </div>
<div>strange?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>However, if
I am missing
something,
please can i
be referred to
the reviewed
(new) document
that says we
can now
select/nominate/elect
co-chairs on
the mailing
list.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's
clearly not
about a formal
document/DPP
:-/</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But if you
want, feel
free to
propose a DPP
to </div>
<div>clarify
what appeares
to be void
into the
running</div>
<div> version of
the CPM.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...i agree
that the
*nomination*
is done during
the</div>
<div> PPM, per
CPM section
3.3, but
what's
preventing </div>
<div>the PDWG to
consensually
prepare its
success </div>
<div>beforehand?
It's exactely
what's
happening
right </div>
<div>now, imho!</div>
<div>Please, see
also early
comment above.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Someone
like me is
beginning to
loose interest</p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...i
understand
your say, and
i sympatize,
brother; </div>
<div>but i don't
think it's
actually the
case.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's rather
a PDP
flexibility
which allows
the PDWG </div>
<div>to
consensually
and freely do
things that
could
ameliorate its
difficult
conditions...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p> with us
conducting our
activities
without a
standing
guide. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you
don't like
that, still,
interesting
flexibility, </div>
<div>imho! then
i encourage
you to submit
a DPP.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Clarifications
on is
important and
urgent.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...i hope
this clarifies
something!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, i
thank the
Policy Liaison
Team for the </div>
<div>welcomed
support
provided to
the PDWG to </div>
<div>guarantee a
soft
transition to
a new PDWG's
Chair.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Shalom,</div>
<div>--sb.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<p>Simply,</p>
<p>Daniel<br>
</p>
<div>On
21/04/2022
19:08, AFRINIC
Policy Liaison
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<p><font
face="Arial"><b
style="font-weight:normal"> </b></font></p>
<div
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><font
face="Arial"><b
style="font-weight:normal"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Dear PDWG,</span></b></font></div>
<font
face="Arial"><b
style="font-weight:normal"><br>
<div
style="line-height:1.38;text-align:justify;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">[...]</span></div>
</b></font></blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<p>Best Regards !<br>
__<br>
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