<div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">Dear Daniel, </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">the problem with Physical persons present at the meeting is we repeat the mistakes of Kampala where people are shipped into the meeting room during the PPM and given tags and food to vote for certain candidates. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This people often dont even know what AFRINIC or the PDP is and last time we witnessed even National Antems being sang by a crowd that came in to specifically vote for certain candidates</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">AFRINIC also reported an influx of registration on RPD mailing list which can not be used as a voter register considering the number of sockpuppets who have since registered on the list but are not active participants</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Do you want to become a co-chair, how about you come forward and convince the WG openly here on rpd list.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The WG could assess your ability to do the job through your sense of communication, consensus building, conflict management, etc…</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">--</div><div dir="auto">Arnaud </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le jeu. 28 avr. 2022 à 17:52, Daniel I. Yakmut <<a href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com">yakmutd@googlemail.com</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Dear Arnaud,</p>
<p>It cannot be publicly (All Stakeholders) and at the same Resource
holder only endorsement.</p>
<p>Speaking as a Resource Holder, I do not agree with the imposition
of Co-Chairs on the mailing list. Let the selection take place
during the PPM in Mauritius, I don't have qualms if that will be
done by the limited number of persons physically present at the
meeting,</p>
<p>Simply,</p>
<p>Daniel<br>
</p>
<div>On 28/04/2022 14:32, Arnaud AMELINA
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi please see inline</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 26 avr. 2022
à 15:32, Daniel Yakmut <<a href="mailto:yakmutd@googlemail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">yakmutd@googlemail.com</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Dear Arnaud
<div dir="auto">Why do we need a PDWG, if who matters are
resource holders. I will advocate all other persons
vacate the membership of the PDWG and allow the resource
holders do what they like and how they like</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">However, if PDWG is a stakeholder
arrangement, then we must give everyone an equal
footing. Let us stop being Hitlers here.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Simply,</div>
<div dir="auto">Daniel</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Hmmmm… Hitler? </div>
<div dir="auto">His Majesty, Please let not go there.
Extremism never built a good society. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I never said that only the ressources
members matter </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">iCP-2 principle (2) is clear on the
importance of the ressource members in the « raison
d’être » of a RIR and the bylaws accepted and defined
the roles and prerogatives of each stakeholder.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I prefer a publicly endorsed co-chair by
Resources members to a rogue and conflicted co-chair
serving hidden agenda and third party motives.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Why is this a big issue when the final
selection of the co-chairs is made by the WG?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Arnaud</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 26 Apr 2022,
12:07 Arnaud AMELINA, <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hummm ! my comments inline<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 25 avr.
2022 à 13:27, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE <<a href="mailto:oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Dear all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>I have tried as much as possible not to
make a comment but it seems I have to
comment on this as I would also be making a
comment on the other impunity the board
leadership have decided to plunge AFRINIC
into recently. </div>
<div>1. This timeline is not acceptable
because I don't know how Co-chairs would
emerge via the use of the mailing list.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">We keep repeating ourselves. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">You do know how Policy discussions
and decisions are made on the ML, but somehow
you do not know how the selection of Co-chairs
to take on the administrative support role of
the Working Group, happens on the same
mailinglist. <br>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> It was tried last time what we ended up
having are impostors.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Impostors ? These two interim co-chairs are
respectable community members with proven
reputation and expertise who have done a great
service so far and I am sure, WG participants
would want them to continue.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> Two people who claimed they emerged as
consensus candidates when some others on the
mailing did not agree. I see no
consensus in the process.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Looks like you still have a
problem with understanding “consensus” </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Do “objections” mean de facto ”no
consensus”? <br>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> Then I object to criteria J. I see no
reason for this. Endorsement from resource
members shows some form of affiliation.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Affiliation to who? Resource
members are the main stakeholders here,
accountable to the global community. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The community has witnessed
sponsored Co-chairs before who were supposed to
be participating as individuals without motives.</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div> co-chairs are not expected to be
endorsed this way. </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Who says so ? Even though
resources members are also part of the
community, they are the direct affected parties
by policies and decisions made by the PDP. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">As a known and well organised
stakeholders, I see nothing wrong with them
endorsing co-chairs or even endorsing draft
policy proposals. <br>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>@OWEN: I hope i am not eligible to be a
board member yet</div>
<div>Cheers </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>AK</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--<br>
</div>
<div>Arnaud<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr
24, 2022 at 6:37 AM Owen DeLong via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div><br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Apr 23, 2022, at 09:09 , Daniel
Yakmut via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="auto">Dear Sylvain,
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">You answered my
questions, we can do things when
and how we like it. It clearly
also shows that we can interpret
laws and rules at our whims and
caprices.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">As I can see the
spirit of the letters of the CPM
does not matter anymore. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The world is a
jungle indeed. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
With beliefs like this, you are now
eligible to be a member of the AFRINIC
board.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Owen</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Simply,</div>
<div dir="auto">Daniel</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Fri, 22 Apr 2022, 18:32 Sylvain
Baya, <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">abscoco@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear
PDWG,
<div>Hope this email finds you in
good health!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please see my comments below,
inline...</div>
<div><br>
Le vendredi 22 avril 2022,
Daniel I. Yakmut via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Dear All,</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Hi Daniel,</div>
<div>Thanks for your email,
brother!</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Have we amended the
process of
selecting/nominating/electing
Co-Chairs now? </p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please process are you
refering to?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Remember that we had agreed
that the procedure </div>
<div>available to replace PDWG's
Chairs is very open; </div>
<div>and it's not seems to be a
bug in the actual version</div>
<div> (1.6) of the PDP [1].</div>
<div>__</div>
<div>[1]: <<a href="https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process</a>></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As you know, the
appropriate words are:
*choose*, </div>
<div>*nominate*, *select*,
*selection*; and each of those</div>
<div> correspond to a particular
situation about PDWG </div>
<div>Chairs' tenure and
replacement.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Of course, in case of a
replacement after a full </div>
<div>mandate, the appropriate
term is: "*nominate* </div>
<div>during the PPM". Is it
preventing the PDWG to do </div>
<div>whatever it see fit before
the PPM; in order to </div>
<div>ensure itself that the
*nomination* is successfully </div>
<div>conducted during the up
coming PPM?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That's the question!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><paste_CPM_section_3.3></div>
<div>
<h3 style="padding:0.5em;font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:1em;background-image:none;background-color:rgb(110,151,204);color:rgb(51,51,51);background-position:0% 0%">3.3 The Policy
Development Working Group
(PDWG)</h3>
<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">The
Policy Development Working
Group (PDWG) discusses the
proposals. Anyone may
participate via the Internet
or in person. PDWG work is
carried out through the
Resource Policy Discussion
mailing list (<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" style="color:rgb(51,51,51);text-decoration-line:underline" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>)
and the bi-annual AFRINIC
Public Policy Meetings
(PPM). Any person,
participating either in
person or remotely, is
considered to be part of the
Policy Development Working
Group.</p>
<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">The
Policy Development Working
Group has two Chairs to
perform its administrative
functions. The PDWG Chairs
are chosen by the AFRINIC
community during the Public
Policy Meeting and serve
staggered two-year terms.
The term ends during the
first Public Policy Meeting
corresponding to the end of
the term for which they were
appointed. A term may begin
or end no sooner than the
first day of the Public
Policy Meeting and no later
than the last day of the
Public Policy Meeting as
determined by the mutual
agreement of the current
Chair and the new Chair.</p>
<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">If
the Working Group Chair is
unable to serve his or her
full term, the Working Group
may select a replacement to
serve the remainder of the
term. If the Working Group
Chairs are unable to attend
the Public Policy Meeting,
the Working Group shall
nominate a Chair for the
session. Anyone present at
the meeting, whether in
person or by remote
participation, may
participate in the selection
process for a temporary
Chair.</p>
</div>
<div></paste_CPM_section_3.3></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Because the proposed
activities and timeline
looks extremely strange to
me. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div>Please, could you elaborate
on what you see as </div>
<div>strange?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>However, if I am missing
something, please can i be
referred to the reviewed
(new) document that says
we can now
select/nominate/elect
co-chairs on the mailing
list.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's clearly not about a
formal document/DPP :-/</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But if you want, feel free
to propose a DPP to </div>
<div>clarify what appeares to be
void into the running</div>
<div> version of the CPM.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...i agree that the
*nomination* is done during
the</div>
<div> PPM, per CPM section 3.3,
but what's preventing </div>
<div>the PDWG to consensually
prepare its success </div>
<div>beforehand? It's exactely
what's happening right </div>
<div>now, imho!</div>
<div>Please, see also early
comment above.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Someone like me is
beginning to loose
interest</p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...i understand your say,
and i sympatize, brother; </div>
<div>but i don't think it's
actually the case.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's rather a PDP
flexibility which allows the
PDWG </div>
<div>to consensually and freely
do things that could
ameliorate its difficult
conditions...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p> with us conducting our
activities without a
standing guide. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you don't like that,
still, interesting
flexibility, </div>
<div>imho! then i encourage you
to submit a DPP.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Clarifications on is
important and urgent.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>...i hope this clarifies
something!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, i thank the Policy
Liaison Team for the </div>
<div>welcomed support provided
to the PDWG to </div>
<div>guarantee a soft transition
to a new PDWG's Chair.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Shalom,</div>
<div>--sb.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<p>Simply,</p>
<p>Daniel<br>
</p>
<div>On 21/04/2022 19:08,
AFRINIC Policy Liaison
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p><font face="Arial"><b style="font-weight:normal">
</b></font></p>
<div style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><font face="Arial"><b style="font-weight:normal"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Dear PDWG,</span></b></font></div>
<font face="Arial"><b style="font-weight:normal"><br>
<div style="line-height:1.38;text-align:justify;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">[...]</span></div>
</b></font></blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<p>Best Regards !<br>
__<br>
baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT
cm]|<<a href="https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure</a>><br>
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__<br>
#LASAINTEBIBLE|#Romains15:33«Que LE #DIEU de #Paix soit avec
vous tous! #Amen!»<br>
#MaPrière est que tu naisses
de nouveau. #Chrétiennement<br>
«Comme une biche soupire après
des courants d’eau, ainsi mon
âme soupire après TOI, ô
DIEU!»(#Psaumes42:2)<br>
<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
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