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<p>Dear Gregoire,<br>
</p>
<p>Let us not be interpreting the CPM upside. What we know is that
selection should be at PPM, and mailing list is not PPM. Therefore
the CPM forbids any other method of selection until the PPM, which
can be tenured or temporary.</p>
<p>It is also good if we learn to listen and consider each other as
we go along.</p>
<p>Simply</p>
<p>Daniel<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 28/04/2022 19:37, Gregoire EHOUMI
via RPD wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:4D980D8A-8619-472C-8406-A84E216CF531@yahoo.fr">
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Apr 26, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Owen DeLong via RPD
<<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div class="">On Apr 26, 2022, at 05:02 , Arnaud
AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div class="">Hummm ! my comments inline<br
class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 25
avr. 2022 à 13:27, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE <<a
href="mailto:oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng</a>>
a écrit :<br class="">
</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="">Dear all,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">I have tried as much as
possible not to make a comment but it
seems I have to comment on this as I
would also be making a comment on the
other impunity the board leadership have
decided to plunge AFRINIC into
recently. </div>
<div class="">1. This timeline is not
acceptable because I don't know how
Co-chairs would emerge via the use of
the mailing list.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">We keep repeating
ourselves. </div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">You do know how
Policy discussions and decisions are made on
the ML, but somehow you do not know how the
selection of Co-chairs to take on the
administrative support role of the Working
Group, happens on the same mailinglist.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
The PDP provides for this when it comes to policies… It
makes no allowance for it in regards to the selection of
co-chairs.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<div>The PDP only requests that cochairs are « chosen » by the
community during the PPM.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>The PDP does not indicate how, which is left to the WG to
decide by Consensus. There is a track record of the PDP in
the past at multiple occasions appointing its Co-chairs by
consensus.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>So the PDP does not forbidden selection of cochair by
consensus through the ML with confirmation at the upcoming
PPM.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>I can see some evolution in your thoughts. Last time this
was discussed, you said this was not doable as selection of
cochair is not discussion on policy proposal. </div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Now you are concerned by it not been allowed by the PDP.</div>
</div>
<br class="">
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<div class="">
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<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I believe this is his point, though he is
perhaps being too polite in how he expresses it…</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Attempting to select co-chairs on the
mailing list is a violation of the terms in the CPM. If
we want to change the selection process, then we should
have a policy proposal to do so and let the community
debate, discuss, and ultimately come to consensus (or
not) around it. Unless and until that happens, the
mechanism for selecting co-chairs should not be altered
ad hoc.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<div>What selection process are you referring to?</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>There are a couple of proposal to define one which you
and others opposed.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Until now, we have been running with a process defined by
board and endorsed by the WG.</div>
</div>
<br class="">
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<div class="">
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</div>
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<div class=""> </div>
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<div class="">
<div class="">It was tried last time what
we ended up having are impostors.</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Impostors ? These two interim
co-chairs are respectable community members
with proven reputation and expertise who have
done a great service so far and I am sure, WG
participants would want them to continue.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Clearly there are multiple perspectives on this. One
person’s idea of a “great service” is another person’s
idea of tremendous disservice. FWIW, I am neither
impressed, nor angered by the performance of the current
co-chairs. There are things they could have done better,
there are things they could have done worse.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
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<div class=""> </div>
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<div class="">
<div class="">Two people who claimed they
emerged as consensus candidates when
some others on the mailing did not
agree. I see no consensus in the
process.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">Looks like you still
have a problem with understanding
“consensus” </div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Do “objections” mean
de facto ”no consensus”?<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Technically, yes, that is the definition of consensus.
Especially when many of those objections went
unaddressed.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<div>It depends on who determines that an objection is
unaddressed and remain opened.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>« Objections are to be addressed and not necessary
accommodated. »</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Again, if the objection is only that the choice is not
ideal but is otherwise acceptable, such a compromise is
fine. </div>
</div>
<br class="">
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<div class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
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<div class="">
<div class=""> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Then
I object to criteria J. I see no
reason for this. Endorsement from resource
members shows some form of affiliation.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">Affiliation to who?
Resource members are the main stakeholders
here, accountable to the global community. </div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">The community has
witnessed sponsored Co-chairs before who were
supposed to be participating as individuals
without motives.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
The problem you have here is that criteria J encourages
and arguably requires such sponsorship. It sounds to me
like you are both arguing against criteria J.</div>
<div class="">FWIW, I agree, criteria J is a bad idea in
general.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<div>I am actually in support. « J » limits the risks to get a
rogue incompetent co-chair. </div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>If the endorsement turns into the sponsorship we’ve seen
in the past, it will be easily known and dealt with.</div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>BTW: AFAIK, Resource Members POCs or affiliated are
accepted as candidate.</div>
</div>
<br class="">
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<div class="">
<div class="">co-chairs are not expected to
be endorsed this way. </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">Who says so ? Even
though resources members are also part of the
community, they are the direct affected
parties by policies and decisions made by the
PDP. </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Well, for one, it’s not part of the process as described
in the CPM.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
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<div class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">As a known and well
organised stakeholders, I see nothing wrong
with them endorsing co-chairs or even
endorsing draft policy proposals. <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">There is nothing wrong with them
endorsing.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">What is being argued here is not their
ability to endorse. What is being argued is that such
endorsement is a condition of eligibility to serve as
a co-chair.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Owen</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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