<div dir="ltr">Dear Arnaud,<div>1. Am sure you know this just to remind you if you choose to forget. Policy decisions regarding consensus or No consensus are ONLY taken at the PPM and NEVER on the mailing list. I wonder why you would now advocate for something as important as chair selection to be made on the mailing list. </div><div><br></div><div>2. Electing a co-chair cannot go through consensus cos consensus is subjective. it depends on interpretation. We have seen every consensus decision in recent times go on appeal so... Why are you afraid of elections. Cos you want the minority to dominate the majority. That is why the board prefers appointing board members than declaring seats for elections. I have never seen any democratic setting where consensus is used in the national election. therefore in elections objections means no consensus. Consensus in selecting individuals means all others agree if they do not agree then no consensus. simple as ABC. This is a clear case of some small group of people who thinks they are in power today trying to hold on to it all cost. A typical AFRICAN leadership style and we all criticise these leaders only to use the same style in our small communities. This is why the continent not developing as it should be. </div><div><br></div><div>3. Resource members are not the main stakeholders. they are one of the stakeholders. Please go and understand the stakeholder model used in managing the Internet. I can refer you to books you can read. The resource holders are just one component and they are not more important than others even when they pay. </div><div><br></div><div>Resource members are not accountable to the global community. i don't understand where you got that from. It is one of the lies you and your people try to spread to gain sympathy on this mailing list. Resource members are accountable to those who own them. Please tell me one resource member that gives an account to the global community. Please let us stop these falsehoods. AFRINIC is the one accountable to the global community. We are all affected by the decisions taken by the PDWG so we are all equal stakeholders. Please read more about the Internet multistakeholder model. I can send you one of my peered review publications in this area. </div><div><br></div><div>Thanks </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>AK</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 1:02 PM Arnaud AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" target="_blank">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hummm ! my comments inline<br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 25 avr. 2022 à 13:27, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE <<a href="mailto:oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng" target="_blank">oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear all, <div><br></div><div><br><div>I have tried as much as possible not to make a comment but it seems I have to comment on this as I would also be making a comment on the other impunity the board leadership have decided to plunge AFRINIC into recently. </div><div>1. This timeline is not acceptable because I don't know how Co-chairs would emerge via the use of the mailing list.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div dir="auto">We keep repeating ourselves. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">You do know how Policy discussions and decisions are made on the ML, but somehow you do not know how the selection of Co-chairs to take on the administrative support role of the Working Group, happens on the same mailinglist. <br></div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div> It was tried last time what we ended up having are impostors.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Impostors ? These two interim co-chairs are respectable community
members with proven reputation and expertise who have done a great
service so far and I am sure, WG participants would want them to
continue.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div> Two people who claimed they emerged as consensus candidates when some others on the mailing did not agree. I see no consensus in the process.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div dir="auto">Looks like you still have a problem with understanding “consensus” </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Do “objections” mean de facto ”no consensus”? <br></div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div> Then I object to criteria J. I see no reason for this. Endorsement from resource members shows some form of affiliation.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div dir="auto">Affiliation to who? Resource members are the main stakeholders here, accountable to the global community. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The community has witnessed sponsored Co-chairs before who were supposed to be participating as individuals without motives.</div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div> co-chairs are not expected to be endorsed this way. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div dir="auto">Who says so ? Even though resources members are also part of the community, they are the direct affected parties by policies and decisions made by the PDP. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As a known and well organised stakeholders, I see nothing wrong with them endorsing co-chairs or even endorsing draft policy proposals. <br></div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><br></div><div>@OWEN: I hope i am not eligible to be a board member yet</div><div>Cheers </div><div><br></div><div>AK</div><div><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>--<br></div><div>Arnaud<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div></div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 6:37 AM Owen DeLong via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Apr 23, 2022, at 09:09 , Daniel Yakmut via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="auto">Dear Sylvain,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">You answered my questions, we can do things when and how we like it. It clearly also shows that we can interpret laws and rules at our whims and caprices.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As I can see the spirit of the letters of the CPM does not matter anymore. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The world is a jungle indeed. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>With beliefs like this, you are now eligible to be a member of the AFRINIC board.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">Simply,</div><div dir="auto">Daniel</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, 18:32 Sylvain Baya, <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" target="_blank">abscoco@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear PDWG,<div>Hope this email finds you in good health!</div><div><br></div><div>Please see my comments below, inline...</div><div><br>Le vendredi 22 avril 2022, Daniel I. Yakmut via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div><p>Dear All,</p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div>Hi Daniel,</div><div>Thanks for your email, brother!</div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p>Have we amended the process of selecting/nominating/electing
Co-Chairs now? </p><p><br></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Please process are you refering to?</div><div><br></div><div>Remember that we had agreed that the procedure </div><div>available to replace PDWG's Chairs is very open; </div><div>and it's not seems to be a bug in the actual version</div><div> (1.6) of the PDP [1].</div><div>__</div><div>[1]: <<a href="https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://afrinic.net/policy/manual/amp#PDP-Process</a>></div><div><br></div><div>As you know, the appropriate words are: *choose*, </div><div>*nominate*, *select*, *selection*; and each of those</div><div> correspond to a particular situation about PDWG </div><div>Chairs' tenure and replacement.</div><div><br></div><div>Of course, in case of a replacement after a full </div><div>mandate, the appropriate term is: "*nominate* </div><div>during the PPM". Is it preventing the PDWG to do </div><div>whatever it see fit before the PPM; in order to </div><div>ensure itself that the *nomination* is successfully </div><div>conducted during the up coming PPM?<br></div><div><br></div><div>That's the question!</div><div><br></div><div><paste_CPM_section_3.3></div><div><h3 style="padding:0.5em;font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:1em;background:none 0% 0% repeat scroll rgb(110,151,204);color:rgb(51,51,51)">3.3 <a id="gmail-m_-6070511423037904543gmail-m_2021345983983376833gmail-m_-4572113111700854964gmail-m_923431325350192982m_4746811756887310323PDWG" style="text-decoration-line:underline" rel="noreferrer"></a>The Policy Development Working Group (PDWG)</h3><p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">The Policy Development Working Group (PDWG) discusses the proposals. Anyone may participate via the Internet or in person. PDWG work is carried out through the Resource Policy Discussion mailing list (<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" style="color:rgb(51,51,51);text-decoration-line:underline" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>) and the bi-annual AFRINIC Public Policy Meetings (PPM). Any person, participating either in person or remotely, is considered to be part of the Policy Development Working Group.</p><p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">The Policy Development Working Group has two Chairs to perform its administrative functions. The PDWG Chairs are chosen by the AFRINIC community during the Public Policy Meeting and serve staggered two-year terms. The term ends during the first Public Policy Meeting corresponding to the end of the term for which they were appointed. A term may begin or end no sooner than the first day of the Public Policy Meeting and no later than the last day of the Public Policy Meeting as determined by the mutual agreement of the current Chair and the new Chair.</p><p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">If the Working Group Chair is unable to serve his or her full term, the Working Group may select a replacement to serve the remainder of the term. If the Working Group Chairs are unable to attend the Public Policy Meeting, the Working Group shall nominate a Chair for the session. Anyone present at the meeting, whether in person or by remote participation, may participate in the selection process for a temporary Chair.</p></div><div></paste_CPM_section_3.3></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p>Because the proposed activities and timeline looks
extremely strange to me. </p><p><br></p></div></blockquote><div> </div><div>Please, could you elaborate on what you see as </div><div>strange?</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p><br></p><p>However, if I am missing something,
please can i be referred to the reviewed (new) document that says
we can now select/nominate/elect co-chairs on the mailing list.</p></div></blockquote><div> </div><div><br></div><div>It's clearly not about a formal document/DPP :-/</div><div><br></div><div>But if you want, feel free to propose a DPP to </div><div>clarify what appeares to be void into the running</div><div> version of the CPM.</div><div><br></div><div>...i agree that the *nomination* is done during the</div><div> PPM, per CPM section 3.3, but what's preventing </div><div>the PDWG to consensually prepare its success </div><div>beforehand? It's exactely what's happening right </div><div>now, imho!</div><div>Please, see also early comment above.</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p>Someone like me is beginning to loose interest</p><p><br></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>...i understand your say, and i sympatize, brother; </div><div>but i don't think it's actually the case.</div><div><br></div><div>It's rather a PDP flexibility which allows the PDWG </div><div>to consensually and freely do things that could ameliorate its difficult conditions...</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p> with us conducting
our activities without a standing guide. </p><p><br></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If you don't like that, still, interesting flexibility, </div><div>imho! then i encourage you to submit a DPP.</div><div> </div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p>Clarifications on is
important and urgent.</p><p><br>
</p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>...i hope this clarifies something!</div><div><br></div><div>Also, i thank the Policy Liaison Team for the </div><div>welcomed support provided to the PDWG to </div><div>guarantee a soft transition to a new PDWG's Chair.</div><div><br></div><div>Shalom,</div><div>--sb.</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p>Simply,</p><p>Daniel<br>
</p>
<div>On 21/04/2022 19:08, AFRINIC Policy
Liaison wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"><p><font face="Arial"><b style="font-weight:normal">
</b></font></p><div style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><font face="Arial"><b style="font-weight:normal"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Dear PDWG,</span></b></font></div>
<font face="Arial"><b style="font-weight:normal"><br><div style="line-height:1.38;text-align:justify;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;font-weight:400;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">[...]</span></div></b></font></blockquote></blockquote></div><br><br>-- <br><p>Best Regards !<br>__<br>baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|<<a href="https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://cmnog.cm/dokuwiki/Structure</a>><br>Subscribe to Mailing List: <<a href="https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/</a>><br>__<br>#LASAINTEBIBLE|#Romains15:33«Que LE #DIEU de #Paix soit avec vous tous! #Amen!»<br>#MaPrière est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chrétiennement<br>«Comme une biche soupire après des courants d’eau, ainsi mon âme soupire après TOI, ô DIEU!»(#Psaumes42:2)<br><br></p>
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