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<p>Hi</p>
<p>My personal view is that having a policy that supposedly has
problems 'just to have it' doesn't sound good ? Why the hush ? I
am affirming it has it requires more review but if it does the
idea doesn't make sense for me.<br>
I am not in favor of having something just to have it at any cost.
Either it is good and will work well for its main goal or it must
be fixed before it reach consensus.</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Em 06/01/2022 09:43, Mark Elkins
escreveu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:5f8ff942-4889-a7fa-c7de-b905a6f8a315@posix.co.za">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>My personal view is to have this proposal pass as soon as
possible. It can always be then amended a little later. I
believe we should have had something like this policy in place
years ago and would hate to see further delays. I've been told
that it's going to take a while to implement (for reasons I
don't fully understand - as it should be an extension of the
existing transfer policy) - and my hope would be that with a few
tweaks - things like full <span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">reciprocity can be added without staff adding
another further year.<br>
</span></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/6/22 12:02 PM, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:B8137D31-EC06-4C1E-A874-B38C5890FA18@consulintel.es">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I must agree with some of the points raised
by AK.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">It has been said many times: we can’t have a
non-reciprocal policy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">We are only creating the path for a war with
the other RIRs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">In this region we always complained about
other RIRs rules trying to interfere with our own rules,
and we are now doing exactly the same?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">How come can we expect that other RIRs will
not change their policies to protect their resources, and
ensure that their own transfer policies don’t work anymore
with AFRINIC, unless AFRINIC turns into a reciprocal
system?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Clearly it is a very wrong decision and will
turn against AFRINIC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 5/1/22
21:53, "ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE" <<a
href="mailto:oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng</a>>
escribió:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Dear PDWG,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> There
are a number of issues with this policy that have been
raised and I am surprised that only a few were
mentioned in this summary.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I am
also surprised that those who were saying reciprocity
was an issue with a similar policy are now saying it's
no more an issue. I would have gone into the archive
but I have better things to do. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Those
who drafted this summary are now assuming the role of
authors. If you agree that this policy is not
reciprocal but it should be implemented with RIRs that
it is reciprocal with then can you tell me why other
similar policies are not reaching consensus on this
same basis?. This is a very dangerous precedence. now
policies can be implemented with a group. what a good
laugh we are having here.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Please
what are we doing differently this time? So editorial
changes are now allowed by the same set of people who
said no changes is allowed a month before the PPM
according to the CPM. Funny enough the same person
raising this same issue is one of those who now
drafted this so-called summary. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Which
version is the version that you are now claiming is
reaching a consensus here. Is it the current version
before the PPM or the version that the authors have
agreed to make editorial changes too. What are these
editorial changes? Can you explain them? <b>I hope I
get a response to this.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I see
nothing different happing now from what we did. Our
template is clearly being used by the same set of
people who were shouting then. The only difference is
that their will is now being implemented. I knew this
was a script all along am not in any way surprised.
some people now don't understand what an RIR is. and
suddenly we having RIR lessons.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Let us
be clear on this, this policy didn't reach a consensus
for the simple fact that it is not reciprocal among
other reasons. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I know
that all opposition to this policy would be ignored
became all these are just a formality so I won't waste
my time too much on this. The decisions were made a
long time ago and this is just a drama. Same with the
appeals it is now the same circle of people typical
way of doing things, therefore, I can clearly predict
the future. Unfortunately, the chair of appeals is
someone I respect and like so much hence I would never
comment on anything she has a hand in no matter the
temptation I would never directly or indirectly
disrespect her.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Congratulation
to Noah and friends, I was thinking you wait and pass
this policy at the next ppm but it seems time is
running out of time and it has to be done now.
Fortunately, I only decided to send this mail because
I am not expecting those crazy blackmailing responses
from my good friend. He now has a court case to answer
too and am sure he would finally get to learn some
lessons or maybe I should also consult on how I can
press a similar charge. let me quote from
...."the truth is definitely stronger. Always stay on
the path of truth :-) "<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Let me
stop here before I get the puppet card. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">AK<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On
Wed, 8 Dec 2021, 16:32 PDWG Chair, <<a
href="mailto:vincent@ngundi.me.ke" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">vincent@ngundi.me.ke</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Dear PDWG, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">The
summary of the elements that led to the PDWG
Chairs decision for the policy proposal AFRINIC
Number Resources Transfer Policy - Policy
Proposal AFPUB-2020-GEN-006-DRAFT02 that was
discussed during the AFRINIC-34 Public Policy
Meeting is as follows:-</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Lack of
reciprocity with ARIN was raised and addressed
by the authors and members of the PDWG, who
mentioned that while the proposal is
conservative and aims at protecting the resource
pool of AFRINIC, AFRINIC can start with the
implementation of resource transfers with those
RIRs that have confirmed or do not require
reciprocity. The authors also clarified that
incoming transfers of legacy resources will be
covered by the AFRINIC RSA as the recipient will
have to become a member.</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">After
deliberation, the PDWG Co-chairs announced that
having considered the current version of the
policy proposal, the deliberations during the
current PPM and the editorial changes that the
authors have committed to, they have determined
that rough consensus has been reached. The
updated version of the policy proposal, with ID
AFPUB-2020-GEN-006-DRAFT03, was submitted on 22
Nov 2021 and is available at </span><span
style="color:black"><a
href="https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2020-gen-006-d3"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1155CC">https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2020-gen-006-d3</span></a></span><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> . This
version of the proposal will now move to Last
Call and the community can further engage in
that period. </span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">The Last
Call starts on 8 December 2021 and will end at
23h59 UTC on 5 January 2022.</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Regards,</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Vincent
Ngundi & Darwin Da Costa</span><span
style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">AFRINIC
PDWG CO-CHAIRS</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="color:black"><br
style="font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px">
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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