<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 15, 2021, at 18:01 , Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/11/2021 19:19, Owen DeLong wrote:<br class="">
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<div class="">If you don’t like the election, how about having all
community members willing to serve on the committee toss their
names in a hat and 5 names are selected at random.</div>
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Functions of the PDWG should not be a lucky contest where any random
people can perform a role.<br class=""><p class="">Instead people should be chosen by their competence and knowledge
to the task and not all community members may have this necessary
knowledge and skills. Put on the top of that that a random person
with a big conflict of interest may be can be drawn which puts in
danger a vital part of the PDWG.<br class=""></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>A person with a big CoI may be chosen by the board, too. The only way to handle CoI is to have rules about it and then hope people are honest about their disclosures of same.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">
The way it is at least remains in the hands of the Board supported
by the staff the function to filter and make sure only those who
have the skills and no conflict of interest can perform such task.</p></div></div></blockquote>Since the board is the final arbiter of policy adoption (or not), the board has an inherent CoI in the process.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Especially given the way they’ve put their thumbs on the scale with the appeal committee recently, we need to be giving the board less, not more power in the PDP/PDWG process(es).</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">Regards<br class="">
Fernando<br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:0E9D1E42-CDD0-4CAB-9C0D-03809EF7B6CC@delong.com" class="">
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<div class="">Owen</div>
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<div class=""><p class="">Fernando<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/11/2021 15:26, Owen
DeLong wrote:<br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">On Nov 15, 2021, at
05:33, Fernando Frediani <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a>
wrote:<br class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">Hi
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<div dir="auto" class="">No, I am considering it
to be elected even before a request for recall
is put.</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Election for such thing
only has the potential to mess up things a lot
and is uncessary.</div>
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How so? If the committee is elected before the
co-chairs are identified, how does it mess things up?
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<div dir="auto" class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">The actual method with
the Board playing the role in choosing these
people to conduct this important task is good
and balanced enough for the process.</div>
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This presumes we can depend on the board acting in
good faith and not appointing committee members based
on their willingness to achieve the board’s desired
outcome. Given that there is a clear track record of
increasing power grabs (e.g. the restructuring of the
appeal committee TOR) in the PDP from the AFRINIC
board, this is obviously folly. </div>
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<div dir="auto" class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">As a comparison there
are other RIRs like LACNIC where this works
similarily and well.</div>
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The LACNIC board has and has earned the trust of the
community. </div>
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<div dir="auto" class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">Let's not politicize
the process which should be based in merit and
not popularity and imune to economical power
interference.</div>
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Giving control of the process to the board will
politicize it. The question is whether we want to
politicize it in the control of 9 people or handle it
with broader community oversight. </div>
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<div class="">Owen</div>
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<div dir="auto" class="">
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">Regards</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Fernando</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 15 Nov
2021, 07:12 Owen DeLong, <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">owen@delong.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
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<div class="">On Nov 14, 2021, at 18:18
, Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div class=""><p class="">No way a Recall
Committee to be elected by the
PDWG. This sounds like a quiet bad
scenario and should be avoided
given the way PDWG works.</p>
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They should be elected to serve terms in
case a recall comes up. They should not be
elected after the recall process has
begun.</div>
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<div class=""><p class="">Recall Committee is a
rather critical thing in the
structure of PDWG and may only be
called up during difficult and
stressful times. If you add up the
possibility to politicize the
process with candidates and an
election it a recipe to mess up
the process with all that is
involved in a election. Further to
that imagine the possibility of
someone economically powerful that
is dissatisfied with some of the
decision of the Co-Chair to pay
people to subscribe to list, fake
participation and vote for certain
people for a 'ordered' Recall
Committee to remove those
'unwanted' Co-Chairs ?<br class="">
</p>
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It sounds like you are assuming an
election to take place after the recall
process is started. That would, indeed, be
obvious folly, but it is not what I am
proposing.</div>
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class=""> Having the Board to
nominate the Committee is good
enough and protects these rather
difficult and critical situations
from unnecessary politicization
and the PDWG from a easier take
over. I believe it is quiet fair
to think that the Board has all
the necessary attributes to find
and choose the right people to
compose a Recall Committee when it
is needed. We have a great example
in the excellent and detailed work
a previous Recall Committee has
done and those members were all
chosen by the Board. This shows
the process worked well, fairly
and in a balanced way where the
Board and Recall Committeed played
its role in the balance the PDWG
has to have.</p>
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I disagree… This is a place where we
should not be allowing the bard to put
their thumbs on the scale, let alone
encouraging it.</div>
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<div class="">Owen</div>
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