<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 15, 2021, at 18:01 , Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
  
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/11/2021 19:19, Owen DeLong wrote:<br class="">
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    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:0E9D1E42-CDD0-4CAB-9C0D-03809EF7B6CC@delong.com" class="">
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      <div class="">If you don’t like the election, how about having all
        community members willing to serve on the committee toss their
        names in a hat and 5 names are selected at random.</div>
    </blockquote>
    Functions of the PDWG should not be a lucky contest where any random
    people can perform a role.<br class=""><p class="">Instead people should be chosen by their competence and knowledge
      to the task and not all community members may have this necessary
      knowledge and skills. Put on the top of that that a random person
      with a big conflict of interest may be can be drawn which puts in
      danger a vital part of the PDWG.<br class=""></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>A person with a big CoI may be chosen by the board, too. The only way to handle CoI is to have rules about it and then hope people are honest about their disclosures of same.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">
      The way it is at least remains in the hands of the Board supported
      by the staff the function to filter and make sure only those who
      have the skills and no conflict of interest can perform such task.</p></div></div></blockquote>Since the board is the final arbiter of policy adoption (or not), the board has an inherent CoI in the process.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Especially given the way they’ve put their thumbs on the scale with the appeal committee recently, we need to be giving the board less, not more power in the PDP/PDWG process(es).</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">Regards<br class="">
      Fernando<br class="">
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:0E9D1E42-CDD0-4CAB-9C0D-03809EF7B6CC@delong.com" class="">
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      <div class="">Owen</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">
            <div class=""><p class="">Fernando<br class="">
              </p>
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/11/2021 15:26, Owen
                DeLong wrote:<br class="">
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:DE42398D-06F8-4C92-BF20-924877E95A51@delong.com" class="">
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                <div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">On Nov 15, 2021, at
                    05:33, Fernando Frediani <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a>
                    wrote:<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                  <div dir="ltr" class="">
                    <div dir="auto" class="">Hi
                      <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div dir="auto" class="">No, I am considering it
                        to be elected even before a request for recall
                        is put.</div>
                      <div dir="auto" class="">Election for such thing
                        only has the potential to mess up things a lot
                        and is uncessary.</div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                How so?  If the committee is elected before the
                co-chairs are identified, how does it mess things up?
                <div class=""><br class="">
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="">
                      <div dir="auto" class="">
                        <div dir="auto" class="">The actual method with
                          the Board playing the role in choosing these
                          people to conduct this important task is good
                          and balanced enough for the process.</div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  This presumes we can depend on the board acting in
                  good faith and not appointing committee members based
                  on their willingness to achieve the board’s desired
                  outcome. Given that there is a clear track record of
                  increasing power grabs (e.g. the restructuring of the
                  appeal committee TOR) in the PDP from the AFRINIC
                  board, this is obviously folly. </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="">
                      <div dir="auto" class="">
                        <div dir="auto" class="">As a comparison there
                          are other RIRs like LACNIC where this works
                          similarily and well.</div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  The LACNIC board has and has earned the trust of the
                  community. </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="">
                      <div dir="auto" class="">
                        <div dir="auto" class="">Let's not politicize
                          the process which should be based in merit and
                          not popularity and imune to economical power
                          interference.</div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  Giving control of the process to the board will
                  politicize it. The question is whether we want to
                  politicize it in the control of 9 people or handle it
                  with broader community oversight. </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Owen</div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="">
                      <div dir="auto" class="">
                        <div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div dir="auto" class="">Regards</div>
                        <div dir="auto" class="">Fernando</div>
                      </div>
                      <br class="">
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 15 Nov
                          2021, 07:12 Owen DeLong, <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">owen@delong.com</a>>
                          wrote:<br class="">
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
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                            <div class=""><br class="">
                              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                <div class="">On Nov 14, 2021, at 18:18
                                  , Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
                                  wrote:</div>
                                <br class="">
                                <div class="">
                                  <div class=""><p class="">No way a Recall
                                      Committee to be elected by the
                                      PDWG. This sounds like a quiet bad
                                      scenario and should be avoided
                                      given the way PDWG works.</p>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </blockquote>
                              They should be elected to serve terms in
                              case a recall comes up. They should not be
                              elected after the recall process has
                              begun.</div>
                            <div class="">
                              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                <div class="">
                                  <div class=""><p class="">Recall Committee is a
                                      rather critical thing in the
                                      structure of PDWG and may only be
                                      called up during difficult and
                                      stressful times. If you add up the
                                      possibility to politicize the
                                      process with candidates and an
                                      election it a recipe to mess up
                                      the process with all that is
                                      involved in a election. Further to
                                      that imagine the possibility of
                                      someone economically powerful that
                                      is dissatisfied with some of the
                                      decision of the Co-Chair to pay
                                      people to subscribe to list, fake
                                      participation and vote for certain
                                      people for a 'ordered' Recall
                                      Committee to remove those
                                      'unwanted' Co-Chairs ?<br class="">
                                    </p>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </blockquote>
                              It sounds like you are assuming an
                              election to take place after the recall
                              process is started. That would, indeed, be
                              obvious folly, but it is not what I am
                              proposing.</div>
                            <div class="">
                              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                <div class="">
                                  <div class=""><p class=""> Having the Board to
                                      nominate the Committee is good
                                      enough and protects these rather
                                      difficult and critical  situations
                                      from unnecessary politicization
                                      and the PDWG from a easier take
                                      over. I believe it is quiet fair
                                      to think that the Board has all
                                      the necessary attributes to find
                                      and choose the right people to
                                      compose a Recall Committee when it
                                      is needed. We have a great example
                                      in the excellent and detailed work
                                      a previous Recall Committee has
                                      done and those members were all
                                      chosen by the Board. This shows
                                      the process worked well, fairly
                                      and in a balanced way where the
                                      Board and Recall Committeed played
                                      its role in the balance the PDWG
                                      has to have.</p>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </blockquote>
                              I disagree… This is a place where we
                              should not be allowing the bard to put
                              their thumbs on the scale, let alone
                              encouraging it.</div>
                            <div class=""><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="">Owen</div>
                            <div class=""><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <br class="">
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
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