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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;line-break:after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Regarding the bylaws vs PDP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>ARIN may be a strange case, but if you look at LACNIC, APNIC and RIPE (as you said already), there is no such interference.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The community is always on top of the Board, in terms of responsibility on the PDP and resource decisions. Otherwise, consensus, community, etc., etc., will be a pure fiction and the RIR systems will be pure theater!.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The Board can’t take decisions that harm the membership or organization, that’s right, but if those decision come because the bylaws are written in a conflictive way with the community or the country legislation is simply not understanding what are the resources and what is the community, then: a) the bylaws should be amended, b) the organization must be changed to a country where the jurisdiction doesn’t create those problems. If this I not approached soon, the community has the right to form another RIR that either replaces AFRINIC, or set it in a different country. Note that I’m *<b>not</b>* for that, but to avoid that, the organization must resolve those conflicts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 14/11/21 10:19, "Owen DeLong" <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>[Jordi] This is already prevented by:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>“5.7.2.3 An entity that has received IPv4 resources from AFRINIC within the preceding 16 months will not be approved as a transfer source.”</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Also, if you obtain resources from AFRINIC with the only goal to transfer them to make profit and consequently your justification for the need is artificial, the transfer pre-check at 5.7.5 will discover that and you will not be only not able to transfer but also the resources may become recovered.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Since I’m opposed to the policy so long as 5.7.5 persists, I hardly think that using it as an explanation or to address my concern here is going to work.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div style='margin-left:36.0pt'><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Chairs shall notice that even if the impact analysis is extremely useful to authors and community, the staff can have a totally different view from the community, so the impact analysis is good as a point for discussion but never can be considered “per se” as objections unless duly justitified</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Here, I mostly agree, but with greater constraints. The impact analysis should be limited in scope to those impacts which the staff sees as a predictable impact to the RIR from the proposed policy. It shouldn’t go into speculation or ideology. It should stick to the facts and be a neutral report of the reasonably predictable results of implementing the policy and document how staff would interpret the policy as written and how it would be implemented.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>It should not be considered an objection unless there is a legal or fiduciary concern expressed and any such concern should be clearly called out as such and its basis should be well documented.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>[Jordi] I mostly agree here with you. However, if there is a persistent problem in all the impact analysis, as it is happening, because a “legal” friction between the community right (which are always on top of any RIR) and the RIR/membership itself, then it shows a clear problem with the bylaws and/or RSA that must be corrected. The only RIR which the bylaws are generating such kind of interferences is AFRINIC: that should tell us something! In fact, if we strictly follow the bylaws, many of the most active participants in the PDP will not be able to participate, because the definition of (17) “Internet community” in the bylaws restrict that to “any person or corporate body living or operating in the AFRINIC service region” and then the PDP definition (23) calls for that “Internet community” definition. Also 11.3 talks about “Regional”. There many other problems, those are just examples. Somebody was not really doing a good job at all when the bylaws where written and even worst, they should have not passed the ICP-2 approval!</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>The legal fiction is the idea that the community is on top of the RIR. This might somehow be true in the case of RIPE. It’s not at all true in any of the four other RIRs based on the way they are chartered and structured under the laws of the various jurisdictions where they are incorporated.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>The bylaws create thee same kind of interference in ARIN, the difference is that there is less controversy because:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>1)<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>The ARIN bylaws are better written and more internally consistent.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>2)<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>The ARIN bylaws are not misinterpreted in a situationally dependent way. They are applied consistently and in a<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>predictable manner that is in line with the actual text.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>3)<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>The ARIN community while diverse is significantly less fractious than the AFRINIC community.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>4)<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>The ARIN board and ARIN AC tend to be significantly more transparent and communicative about their<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>actions and the reasoning behind them.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>5)<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>As a result, the community knows not only what the ARIN board and ARIN AC have done, but they also know<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>why.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>6) <span class=apple-tab-span> </span>As a result, the ARIN community tends to accept the limitations on the policy process and the AC tends to<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>reject out-of-scope policies early in the process such that there isn’t so much of an issue with policies coming<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>to consensus that cannot be implemented.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoListParagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:106.8pt;text-indent:-18.0pt'>2.<span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Regarding the AFRINIC role, while this is not considered in any other RIR, because in my opinion is something very obvious (the role of the RIR is just helping, and the final responsibility is on the source and recipient of the transfers), I understand that having some text that clarify that is not harming, so I’ve added section 5.7.6 (Due digilence) in the new version of the proposal to address it.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>5.7.6 is utterly unnecessary. It has nothing to do with number resource policy and should be stricken.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>AFRINIC is a registry. They keep track of who is the registrant of a set of number resources within a cooperating set of entities (the RIR system and those ISPs who choose to implement their networks in accordance with the RIR system). They are there to guarantee uniqueness among those cooperating entities, manage the registrations within that database according to policies set by the community, and provide a forum for the community to develop said policies.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>They are not a governing body. They are not a regulator. They are not kings of the internet, gods, or even a court of arbitration. They are just an NGO with a mission. That mission is to provide unique registrations of internet number resources according to community developed policies and facilitate the use of those registrations among cooperating entities who choose to work within the system.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Recent attempts to weaponize AFRINIC are proof that some, including many among AFRINIC leadership have either lost sight of this or have an alternate agenda seeking to enrich themselves. I honestly don’t know which is the case at this point, but it is clear that there are problems which need to be addressed.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>[Jordi] 5.7.6 has been added under request form the IA. As said I agree it is not needed, because it is obvious, however it doesn’t harm if it avoids objections based on the IA text on this.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>It is harmful in that it creates unnecessary confusion for participants in a transfer as to what kind and level of due diligence is required or expected of them.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>It goes beyond disclaiming AFRINIC’s liability and creates an unclear set of requirements with no useful explanation.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>It should be removed. Even if such a clarification is needed somewhere, it belongs in a contract, not in the CPM.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoListParagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:106.8pt;text-indent:-18.0pt'>3.<span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Regarding the RSA signature, again, while I believe this is obvious and once more is not explicit in other RIRs, I’ve added text to clarify it. Note that there is no such 3.6 in the proposal, so I believe there is some mismatch in your text, may be chairs also reading the wrong IA? So, in summary, section 5.7.3.3 of the proposal, already was clear, but now has been eddited to be even more exlicit on this in 5.7.3.1.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I think you mean edited and explicit.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>[Jordi] Yes, I’ve resend this text in a subsequent email (and added a point that I missed) because I was using a previous email from a previous proposal … I believe I corrected those typos as well in my subsequent email.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><span lang=EN-US><br><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoListParagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:106.8pt;text-indent:-18.0pt'>4.<span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Section 5.7.5 has been updated to be more clear and now explicitly allows that other violations of the RSA/CPM aren’t “protected” by the pre-check.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Section 5.7.5 is getting worse instead of better. This entire pre-check provision is an opportunity to weaponize AFRINIC to hold resources captive in the case that some staff member or leadership person dislikes a transfer source for whatever reason. It provides broad latitude to inflict arbitrary judgment.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Given recent weaponization of AFRINIC processes against certain members, I must strenuously object to any policy proposal that contains this provision.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>[Jordi] As said, even if we don’t have this text explicit, AFRINIC can and shall do exactly the same. This text actually protects the resource holders from being reclaimed for the resources in case of a failed transfer, because the lack of need will come on the back of the resource holder in that case: “I don’t need any more the resources, but I’m transferring them – oh because the transfer failed – the recipient is not fulfilling the requirements – now I can “artificially” justify again the need otherwise I need to return the resources of face a reclamation”.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>The language as currently written does not prevent AFRINIC from subsequently attempting to reclaim the resources after a failed transfer.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>So it does not offer protection, it merely creates a convenient place for staff to point as they weaponize their discretion against members they don’t like.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>It should be removed or it should be replaced with a clause that reads something like this:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>5.7.5 AFRINIC may deny a registrant as the source of a transfer only if one or more of the following applies:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>1.<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Clear evidence that the resources were fraudulently obtained.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>2.<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Registrant is not current on their AFRINIC fees.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>3.<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>There is some question or dispute as to whether registrant is the resource holder of record.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span class=apple-tab-span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>4.<span class=apple-tab-span> </span>There is an unresolved third-party claim to the registration.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>If one of the above does not apply, then AFRINIC must approve the registrant as source of the transfer and proceed unless there is a problem with the recipient.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>That would actually protect resource holders.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Owen</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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