<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 15, 2021, at 12:52 , Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class=""><p class="">Hi Owen</p><p class="">With all due respect, my view is that your contrariety to the
current AfriNic's Board composition and positions is poisoning
your capacity to separate things that are important when building
policies in PDWG.</p></div></div></blockquote>You are entitled to your opinion, no matter how misguided it may be.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I am trying to make sure that we have sufficient safeguards to ensure the integrity of the policy development process regardless of the quality of the board.</div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">I am of the believe that when we build a new policy here in PDWG
that is for long term lasting, for the system to work as it should
and regardless which is the current Board composition. Good
policies will last, Board members will pass and as long the those
policies work in a balanced way and protects the process and
community from politicization that is always a good thing to have.
We cannot build policies based on specific individuals.</p></div></div></blockquote>I completely agree. Any policy which grants too much power to the board is a recipe for abuse. Policies should be designed with proper checks and balances to prevent abuse regardless of whether the board is benevolent or malignant.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>So, instead of engaging in ad hominem and speculation about my motives, how about actually addressing the merits of what I said… How about explaining yourself in how, exactly, having a committee which is elected prior to knowing who the co-chairs are going to be would have a potential to mess things up?</div><div><br class=""></div><div>You’re arguing for allowing the board to have their thumbs squarely on the scale after the recall is initiated. I’m arguing for an independent set of elected community representatives, determined prior to the community knowing the outcome of the co-chair election.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>If you don’t like the election, how about having all community members willing to serve on the committee toss their names in a hat and 5 names are selected at random.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I’d actually be fine with that process as well.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="">Fernando<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/11/2021 15:26, Owen DeLong wrote:<br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:DE42398D-06F8-4C92-BF20-924877E95A51@delong.com" class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">On Nov 15, 2021, at 05:33, Fernando
Frediani <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a> wrote:<br class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">Hi
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">No, I am considering it to be elected even
before a request for recall is put.</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Election for such thing only has the
potential to mess up things a lot and is uncessary.</div>
</div>
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<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
How so? If the committee is elected before the co-chairs are
identified, how does it mess things up?
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">The actual method with the Board playing
the role in choosing these people to conduct this
important task is good and balanced enough for the
process.</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
This presumes we can depend on the board acting in good faith
and not appointing committee members based on their willingness
to achieve the board’s desired outcome. Given that there is a
clear track record of increasing power grabs (e.g. the
restructuring of the appeal committee TOR) in the PDP from the
AFRINIC board, this is obviously folly. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">As a comparison there are other RIRs like
LACNIC where this works similarily and well.</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
The LACNIC board has and has earned the trust of the community. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
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<div dir="auto" class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">Let's not politicize the process which
should be based in merit and not popularity and imune to
economical power interference.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Giving control of the process to the board will politicize it.
The question is whether we want to politicize it in the control
of 9 people or handle it with broader community oversight. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Owen</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Regards</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Fernando</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 15 Nov 2021,
07:12 Owen DeLong, <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">owen@delong.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Nov 14, 2021, at 18:18 , Fernando Frediani
<<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="">No way a Recall Committee to be elected by
the PDWG. This sounds like a quiet bad
scenario and should be avoided given the way
PDWG works.</p>
</div>
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</blockquote>
They should be elected to serve terms in case a
recall comes up. They should not be elected after
the recall process has begun.</div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="">Recall Committee is a rather critical thing
in the structure of PDWG and may only be
called up during difficult and stressful
times. If you add up the possibility to
politicize the process with candidates and
an election it a recipe to mess up the
process with all that is involved in a
election. Further to that imagine the
possibility of someone economically powerful
that is dissatisfied with some of the
decision of the Co-Chair to pay people to
subscribe to list, fake participation and
vote for certain people for a 'ordered'
Recall Committee to remove those 'unwanted'
Co-Chairs ?<br class="">
</p>
</div>
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</blockquote>
It sounds like you are assuming an election to take
place after the recall process is started. That
would, indeed, be obvious folly, but it is not what
I am proposing.</div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class=""> Having the Board to nominate the Committee
is good enough and protects these rather
difficult and critical situations from
unnecessary politicization and the PDWG from
a easier take over. I believe it is quiet
fair to think that the Board has all the
necessary attributes to find and choose the
right people to compose a Recall Committee
when it is needed. We have a great example
in the excellent and detailed work a
previous Recall Committee has done and those
members were all chosen by the Board. This
shows the process worked well, fairly and in
a balanced way where the Board and Recall
Committeed played its role in the balance
the PDWG has to have.</p>
</div>
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</blockquote>
I disagree… This is a place where we should not be
allowing the bard to put their thumbs on the scale,
let alone encouraging it.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Owen</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
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