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<p>Hi Jordi</p>
<p>It is not because it is in the bylaws that is something valid or
that can actually be done, simply because at some point members
decided to add something they never had the mandate from community
to do so.<br>
Therefore it is void to think that is something that can be used
in any type of situation.</p>
<p>If AfriNic has an urgent policy issue to deal with there is the
section 3.6 of the CPM. That's the only valid way to do and which
preserves the fully bottom-up procedure.<br>
</p>
<p>Regards<br>
Fernando Frediani<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Em 02/08/2021 03:47, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via RPD escreveu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:713F21BC-523B-4826-8642-854DFA1F4FD6@consulintel.es">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I’ve discussed *<b>many</b>* times that this
right should be provided by the community and never by the
bylaws, but *<b>right now</b>* is in the bylaws, we like it
or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">The policy that the board didn’t want to ratify
and I’m still waiting for a response to my email, was
resolving that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">The community already decided that they *<b>want
that</b>* when this policy reached consensus.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">The Board has the tool on his hands if they
want to reconsider the ratification!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 2/8/21
1:42, "Fernando Frediani" <<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">How bad is to see this thing being
said that 11.4 allows Board to adopt by itself any policy they
wish at any point without any prior discussion in PDWG.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">This is one of the most wrong
things I have been seen here overtime, simply because this
"right" was NEVER gave by Community to to members to do such
thing, even in a urgent or most noble situation. This simply
does not and never existed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">It is not because of some member
with a lot of imagination in the past decided to push that to
the bylaws that it is something valid because it is currently
written there.<br>
Resources don't belong to members, as such only community can
make such concession to members and that has NEVER happened
before in AfriNic history.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">To those who still believe in that
because it is convenient for them moment, just try to accept
and learn to deal with the rules and work in passing a proper
proposal following the due process, instead to force soemthing
artificially in the interest of a few.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Regards<br>
Fernando<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On 01/08/2021
18:57, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Hi Noah,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Your interpretation on this is wrong.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Read my detailed email a few days ago.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">11.4 Allows the Board to define any policy
regarding Internet Resources that they believe is urgently
needed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">This can be implemented ASAP the Board
decides. The Board MUST also send the policy (11.5), as a
policy proposal (because is the only way the PDWG works to
reach consensus), to the PDWG for endorsement in the next
meeting. If the PPM doesn’t endorse it, then the Policy
will decay, but whatever happened meanwhile, will be
“legal” in terms of the PDP.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Now the question here is:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l3
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">From past experience in the other RIRs,
implementing such Inter-RIR policy, takes a minimum of 6
months, probably even more (it took 12 months in other
RIRs), because there is a need to coordinate all the RIR
systems. AFRINIC can’t “force” other RIRs to change their
own agendas and workflows to address all the changes
“faster”. AFRINIC could be lucky and because all the other
4 RIRs already passed by this several times, may be the
process is so much “adjusted” and fine tunned that it may
be faster.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l3
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I already suggested many times the Board to
do that, when I saw that the consensus was not achievable.
They ignored that. So I don’t think they want to pass this
now, more when there are several proposals in discussion
and could be discussed in a PPM in a couple of months from
now, the AC reconstituted, and the appeals resolved, etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l3
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">The Board can meanwhile, take measures so the
implementation of a possible “system” for an Inter-RIR
proposal is advanced, in hope that one way or the other a
proposal reach consensus.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l3
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">All that said, I expect that if the Board
decides to draft that proposal/policy, they make sure that
there is a clear statement that ensures that before any
transfer, there is a confirmation of the resources being
transferred are following the existing conditions in the
RSA, CPM, etc., otherwise.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">On
Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 00:06 Andrew Alston, <<a
href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">This is incorrect
and in line actually with what I said - <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Nop<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.8pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l2
level1 lfo5"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-family:Roboto;color:#333333">Any
policy adopted by the Board under the
provisions of Article11.4 shall be
submitted to the community for endorsement
at the next public policy meeting.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">They adopt
and submit to the PDWG.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.8pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo7"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-family:Roboto;color:#333333">In
the event that such a policy submitted by
the Board is not endorsed, the said policy
shall not be enforced or implemented
following its non-endorsement; however,
any action taken in terms of the policy
prior to such non-endorsement shall remain
valid.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">AFRINIC
Staff will only enforce or implement the adopted policy
if and only if "we the people" aka the powerful PDWG,
endorse the said policy.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">So dude,
the wordings are carefully written.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">1. Board
adopts, PDWG endorse and finally Staff
enforce/implements.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">2. Board
adopts, PDWG does not endorse, AFRINIC staff CAN NOT
enforce/implement.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Makes
sense Andrew?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">The board can
pass a policy - valid till the next policy
meeting - and if the community doesn’t like
it they can reverse it - in the mean time
those who feel the threat is to great can
move in the intervening period.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Lol there
is no **mean time dude** <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">AFRINIC
staff won't enforce or implement if "we the people"
don't endorse.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">The board can -
and does - have the power to implement
policy valid till the next of wg<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">The board
does not have the power unless "we the people" endorse.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Cheers<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Noah<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list <a
href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a> <a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
**********************************************<br>
IPv4 is over<br>
Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
<a href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
The IPv6 Company<br>
<br>
This electronic message contains information which may be
privileged or confidential. The information is intended to
be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above
and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying,
distribution or use of the contents of this information,
even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you
are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure,
copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
information, even if partially, including attached files, is
strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense,
so you must reply to the original sender to inform about
this communication and delete it.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
**********************************************<br>
IPv4 is over<br>
Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.theipv6company.com">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
The IPv6 Company<br>
<br>
This electronic message contains information which may be
privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for
the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further
non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use
of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a
criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware
that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents
of this information, even if partially, including attached files,
is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so
you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
communication and delete it.<br>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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