<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 27, 2021, at 02:37 , Sylvain Baya <<a href="mailto:abscoco@gmail.com" class="">abscoco@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class="">Dear PDWG,<br class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 27 juil. 2021 à 5:34 AM, Owen DeLong via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">[...]</blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>As you wish:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">AFRINIC may only issue AS0 ROAs for addresses which have never been issued. Any</div><div class="">space returned to the registries free pool post allocation shall not have an AS0 ROA</div><div class="">applied until such time as:</div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>1.<span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>Any existing ROA is voluntarily repealed by the previous resource registrant.</div><div class="">and<span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>2.<span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>The previous resource registrant has issued a duly apostilled notice from a</div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>corporate officer authorizing AFRINIC to reissue the space to other parties.</div><div class="">and<span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>3.<span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>No party has any pending litigation or dispute regarding the space in question.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">How’s that for safe policy?</div><div class=""></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Hi Owen,</div><div dir="auto" class="">Thanks for your email, brother.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">...if that is your safer version of this DPP, </div><div dir="auto" class="">which is about to be ratified; then i would recommend you to submit a new DPP, if you dislike the *ratifying* one.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">What is the benefit of a policy which might not be able to fix the problem it was writen to solve?</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">...possible scenario:</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">~°~</div><div dir="auto" class="">1. A resource member (RM) failed to </div><div dir="auto" class="">conform to either the CPM or the RSA.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Alternative scenario as is currently an active case:</div><div><br class=""></div><div>AFRINIC misinterprets their own policy documents and goes on a vindictive witch hunt</div><div>claiming a member violated the CPM and/or RSA and/or bylaws despite them being in</div><div>compliance with all of the above.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">2. The regional RIR exercice its duty and </div><div dir="auto" class="">enforce the procedure which apply to </div><div dir="auto" class=""> that situation.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Alternatively: The RIR enforces procedures which are not authorized.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">3. After hardly try all what is prescribed </div><div dir="auto" class="">to help the said RM; RIR's Staff proceed </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Alternatively: After utterly and completely ignoring the contrary arguments from the RM.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">4. The service seize to be delivered </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Thus forcing the RM to seek injunctive relief (hopefully before the RIR is able to act in</div><div>this manner)</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">5. No more IRR objects, attached to the </div><div dir="auto" class="">INRs holded by the said RM are available</div><div dir="auto" class=""> under the RIR's database: deregistration!</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>In this case, they only defaced the WHOIS records and made a defamatory public announcement,</div><div>but even that had far reaching and unjustified consequences to the RM.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">6. The said RM go to an open IRR </div><div dir="auto" class="">database maintainer and subscribe to an</div><div dir="auto" class=""> alternative service.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Not sure how this is relevant to the discussion.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">7. The price out there is far higher than </div><div dir="auto" class="">the fee previously paid to the RIR office </div><div dir="auto" class="">for the full registration, including that </div><div dir="auto" class="">very service.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Again, not sure how this is relevant to the discussion.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">8. The alternate/open IRR maintainer </div><div dir="auto" class="">receive the expected money and satisfy </div><div dir="auto" class="">the needs of the previous RIR's RM:</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>IRRs only provide route objects and aut-num objects. They don’t run whois and don’t</div><div>provide RPKI services. They don’t provide network registration WHOIS data.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">9. all the desired IRR objects are inserted</div><div dir="auto" class=""> into the alternate/open IRR's database, </div><div dir="auto" class="">and advertised.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Anyone can put pretty much anything into most IRR databases.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">10. Problem solved for the former RIR's </div><div dir="auto" class="">RM.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Hardly.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">11. RIR's System bypassed! :'-(</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>I guess the question here boils down to the fundamental nature of RIRs. While I know it is common place for people to talk about them as if</div><div>they were regulatory bodies, in reality, they are not. They have no force of law and their only authority comes from the willingness of operators</div><div>who run actual routers to listen to them. If an RIR begins issuing malicious and invalid AS0 ROAs, it is just as likely to lead to the discrediting</div><div>of that RIR’s AS0 ROAs as it is to the destruction of the targeted Resource Member. It’s a total loose-loose situation, but the first few targeted</div><div>resource members lose hard while the RIR loses only the credibility of one service it provides in the process.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="auto" class="">12. The End! ???</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Only if you ignore recent history.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""></div></body></html>