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<p>Unbelievable what an amount of absurd we have to cope with here
sometimes. I guess that is s result of total lack of understanding
of how things work and have always worked.</p>
<p>If a resource holder has a fair amount of *<b>unused IPs</b>*
these addresses MUST be returned back to AfriNic or transferred to
another member who has justification for it, period. There is no
middle term for that nor philosophical or beautiful words to make
something different or noble.<br>
If any organization has to lease IPs in order to work it is
already loosing because it could be a AfriNic member getting these
same addresses directly from AfriNic from not a third part at a
higher price.<br>
</p>
<p>IP addresses are meant to build and develop internet ecosystem
not to stay with an organization which does not use them and or be
rented to someone else at a higher cost.<br>
It is also false information that all RIRs allow IP leasing.</p>
<p>Please improve your basis to discuss certain matters and don't
spread false information.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 08/07/2021 18:53, Mimi dy wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAtVZReHxHOLUSLjBim-9DnukUXKVuFx4bsHy8UCRzyia62CmQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-align:justify"><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-align:justify"><span
lang="EN-US">Hi Fernando,<span
class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-align:justify"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-align:justify"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-align:justify"><span
lang="EN-US">First, I find it important to remind you that
the Internet is ONE. Moreover, the African region will
immensely benefit from this activity, how? African ISPs/
network-holders can start leasing out unused IPs, creating a
whole connectivity ecosystem, which primarily can help them
generate more income, and more prominently, small scale
enterprises/ tech start-ups…etc., will also thrive through
IP leasing instead of dedicating a large portion of their
capital to pay RIR membership fees. Additionally, the
organizations that have the capacity to lease IP addresses
to richer countries (i.e., Australia) will definitely
generate an important profit that will be used for the
striving of internet connectivity worldwide. If you do not
see that as an economic growth incentive and a comparative
advantage, I suggest you give it a second thought.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-align:justify"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-align:justify"><span
lang="EN-US">As a matter of fact, all RIRs allow IP leasing,
and inter-RIR resources transfer, because there is no harm
in liberating number resources and allowing them to be
globally transferrable. It is important to realize that, in
this day and age, the whole concept of the Internet is
rooted in openness, freedom and sharing, if you start
elaborating restrictive laws and regulations, the internet
will be no different from a communist government, which can
lead to catastrophic repercussions.<span
class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-align:justify"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-align:justify"><span
lang="EN-US">To sum up, number resources are valuable assets
and should be used in a strategic and intelligent way, which
can be beneficial for the whole Internet, while of course
maintaining its cooperative nature.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-align:justify"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-align:justify"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin:0cm;font-size:medium;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);text-align:justify"><span
lang="EN-US">Best,<span class="gmail-Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mer. 7 juil. 2021 à 23:51,
Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>There are several points and places that make it cristal
clear that the idea of IP Leasing is not just something
absurd in terms of IP usage but also against different
rules in place. However some keep repeating the words are
not written in the way "they" would like to read and
ignoring all that just because that might go against their
business.</p>
<p>All that Noah put below makes sense even to a newbie in
Internet Business so any company who need smaller
allocations get them from their LIR which provides
connectivity and that's the main propose these LIRs
justified the need of these addresses when they were
request to AfriNic. These business are developing internet
in Africa by allocating internet resources for the
purposes of enabling communications which is also provided
by these same businesses. What communications are enabled
by a member who has unused resources and is renting it to
another member - or worst - in many cases to <b>a member
of another RIR elsewhere</b> - therefore out of the
region?<br>
</p>
<p>What promotion of responsible management of Internet
resources is being done <b>throughout the African region</b>
when a member simply rent these resources to someone out
of the region ? What development and operation of Internet
infrastructure is being done in Africa ?</p>
<p>Every unused resource with hold by a member is one chunk
of less of resources in AfriNic's pool. What is the point
of exhausting that pool completely and force newcomers to
pay a higher price for the same resources they could get
directly from AfriNic if these unused resources simply
used for renting would have been returned back to AfriNic
pool ? AfriNic looses newer members and in turn these
companies become dependent from another company whose
business is not transporting a single bit throughout the
African region.</p>
<p>Isn't all that enough to stop those who blindly keep
trying to make IP Leasing and usage out of the region
something normal and that should be accepted by AfriNic ?</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div>On 07/07/2021 13:15, Noah wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 6, 2021
at 1:06 AM Anthony Ubah <<a
href="mailto:ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Noah,<br>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi Oga Ubah,</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">What you describe sounds nice if you
are one of the established ISPs who are running a
top to bottom network. However you can not say the
same for smaller enterprises, too small to be an
LIR, and unable to run full operations profitably,
giving inability to afford the RIR/AFRINIC fees.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>RIR membership fees are annual and AFRINIC today
has close to 200 resource members across the region
both large and small.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I know a good number of small enterprises across
the eastern coast of Africa that get sub-allocations
of /29, /28, /26 to /24 from ISP (LIR's) providing
them with connectivity or hosting services. This
practise is common and it enables such small
enterprises who don't need to become AFRINIC
resource members to enjoy internet related services
through ISP or hosting providers infrastructure on
the continent.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I similarly know of hyperscalers who provide
compute and storage services across their
infrastructure to a wide range of customers and each
service comes with some assignment of an integer
which is fundamental to provision of the IP related
services of (compute, storage, applications) enabled
by integer wrapped in the service to enable IP
communication. Customers are not paying hyperscalers
or hosting providers for an integer but a service.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p>AFRINIC Bylaws Section 3.4) Sections i. and iii.
Below talk about <b>enabling communication to
assist in the development of the Internet in
Africa and promote responsible management of
number resources</b> and not leasing/brokering.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><i>i. to provide the service of <b>allocating
and registering Internet resources for the
purposes of enabling communications </b>via
open system network protocols and to assist in
the development and growth of the Internet in
the African region;</i></p>
<p><i><br>
</i></p>
<p><i>iii. to promote <b>responsible management of
Internet resources</b> throughout the <b>African
region</b>, as well as the <b>responsible
development and operation of Internet
infrastructures; </b></i><span><b><i> </i>
</b></span></p>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"> I feel total reliance on network
providers/carriers also limits flexibility</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As far as I am concerned, we have had multiple
customers who wanted their own managed INR beyond
what we as an LIR can sub-allocate as part of the
connectivity services they enjoy from us and we
encouraged and guided them to seek small blocks from
AFRINIC. This turned out to be a much cheaper
alternative than going to brokers and folks who
lease each IPv4 for 30USD without providing any
Internet related service to the customer beyond
dashing out IP's with LOA's. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>AFRINIC FYI, does more than just allocating and
managing INR. Read Bylaws section 3.4 in full to
understand her complete objectives as an RIR for
this region.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
No textbook analogy. IP leasing can allow the
enterprise/organizations certain flexibility in
administration. Like having a single contiguous
range to numbers on all their interfaces and
infrastructure either locally and across the
cloud, for better administration and scaling of
their network they need. This way all their IPs
are unique and contiguous, and they can number
their offices networks, servers, VPN etc. for
easy management.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>So Yes, fully (physical)provider independent.
Without the physical connection to provider
being involved, that provider will still be
there of course, but the end user is not forced
to number their LAN with that provider's IP
addresses.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ooooh well.... last I checked ... AFRINIC is
provider Independent and has alway been.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So I encourage you to encourage those enterprises
to reach out to AFRINIC. All they need is to become
resource members, sign an RSA and justify their
needs and they will be served. AFRINIC manager INR
transfers within the region as well. </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
On another note, AFRINIC itself would give out
such IP addresses as assignments with the same
justifications, These provider-independent
address space (PI) has some limitations in the
current CPM. The PIs assignments are also called
"leasing", and well.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is no language in the CPM that indicates
that PI assignments are also called <b>leasing</b>.
Please point me to such a language.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However, Section 9.0 talks of temporary
assignments of not more than one month in section
9.2 and this is often done by AFRINIC to support
Internet related events and capacity building and
education activities through various Af* initiatives
(AIS, NOG's etc) as per the Bylaws section 3.4 iv.)
v.) and vi.). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This short term assignment as far I know is done
for free and AFRINIC does not charge the temporary
requesters any fees.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> </div>
<div>AFRINIC as a non profit organisation should
not place itself in direct competition with its
members.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Which members is AFRINIC competing with
exactly? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Resource owners are restricted from leasing,</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div> </div>
<div>There is no such thing as a Resource owner. What
there is, is Membership.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<p><b>Bylaws section 6.1 subsection i.) talks of
Membership as below.</b></p>
<p><b> </b></p>
<p>6) <b>MEMBERSHIP</b></p>
<p>6.1) Subject to the other provisions of this
Article, membership shall be open to:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div><i><span>i. any Person who is geographically
based within, and<font color="#990000"> <b>providing
services in the African region</b></font>,
and who is engaged in the </span><span><b><font
color="#cc0000">use of</font></b></span><span><font
color="#cc0000">,</font> or <b><font
color="#990000">business of providing, open
system protocol network services;</font></b></span></i></div>
<div> </div>
<div>So to break down the above for you, the language
talks of <i><b>engaged in the<span> </span><span>use
of</span></b></i><span> and not leasing or
brokering IPv4's but rather ''<b><i>use of</i></b>"
meaning using the IP</span><span> </span><span>to
provide internet related services in the Afrinic
region on some</span><span> </span><span>network
or system infrastructure.</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>while the registry can lease out space as
described in the policy, placing AFRINIC in a
very awkward situation.<br clear="all">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>AFRINIC does not lease, it allocates to LIR's and
assigns members who seek PI INR's....</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<p>CPM Section <span style="color:rgb(32,90,115)">5.4.6.2</span>
reads as below and still talks of <font
color="#cc0000"><b>use</b></font></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div><i><span>5.4.6.2</span><span> <font
color="#990000"><b>AFRINIC resources are for</b>
</font><b><font color="#990000">AFRINIC service
region</font></b> <b>and</b> </span><span><b><font
color="#000000">any </font><font
color="#ff0000">use</font><font
style="text-decoration-line:underline"
color="#990000"> </font><font
color="#990000">outside the region should be
solely in support of </font><font
color="#000000">connectivity</font><font
color="#990000"> back to the </font><font
color="#000000">AFRINIC region</font></b></span></i></div>
<div><span><b><br>
</b></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font face="Helvetica Neue">Cheers,</font></div>
<div><span>Noah</span></div>
<div><span><b><br>
</b></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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