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<p>Please learn how to participate in a email list. Stop changing
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/07/2021 20:14, Paul Hjul wrote:<br>
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<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">Hi Noah,</span><br
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">What you describe sounds nice
if you are one of the established ISPs who<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">are running a top to
bottom network. However you can not say the same<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">for smaller enterprises,
too small to be an LIR, and unable to run full<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">operations profitably,
giving inability to afford the RIR/AFRINIC fees. I<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">feel total reliance on
network providers/carriers also limits flexibility,<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">which goes more along the
line of thinking from the ITU, than the spirit of<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">the Internet, as set by
the early pioneers of the Internet.</span><br
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">No textbook analogy. IP
leasing can allow the enterprise/organizations<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">certain flexibility in
administration. Like having a single contiguous<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">range to numbers on all
their interfaces and infrastructure either locally<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">and across the cloud, for
better administration and scaling of their<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">network they need. This
way all their IPs are unique and contiguous, and<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">they can number their
offices networks, servers, VPN etc. for easy<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">management.<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">So Yes, fully
(physical)provider independent. Without the physical<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">connection to provider
being involved, that provider will still be there of<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">course, but the end user
is not forced to number their LAN with that<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">provider's IP addresses.</span><br
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">On another note, AFRINIC
itself would give out such IP addresses as<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">assignments with the same
justifications, These provider-independent<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">address space (PI) has
some limitations in the current CPM. The PIs<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">assignments are also
called "leasing", and well.<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">AFRINIC as a non profit
organisation should not place itself in direct<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">competition with its
members.<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">Resource owners are
restricted from leasing, while the registry can lease<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">out space as described in
the policy, placing AFRINIC in a very awkward<br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times
New Roman";font-size:medium">situation.</span><br
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">
<br style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">*Best Regards,*</span><br
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">
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<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">*Anthony*<br>
</span></blockquote>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">Wholeheartedly agree</span><br>
<font size="3" face="Times New Roman" color="#000000"><br>
</font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">Two points on this though:</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">[1] The scenario of "top to
bottom" providers who think of themselves in a telco-esque
mindset is really deleterious to a competitive market and is
not beneficial to consumers. Members of RIRs serve a function
as an LIR not as an "operator who leases number resources from
the RIR", it should be perfectly possible for an enterprise to
contract with multiple companies one of which is an LIR to get
the various resources that enterprise needs for their ICT
services.</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">[2] Even in the telco space this
sort of ITU-esque thinking is under revision - the mantra
amongst telco CEOs is "becoming a techco". </span><br>
<font size="3" face="Times New Roman" color="#000000"><br>
</font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">The thinking will mean that
transitioning to IPv6 on the continent will continue to be
behind global trends.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">There certainly is space for a
discussion as to whether there should be policies as to the
nature of relationship between LIR and customer but the
implicit big lie advanced by some on this group is that
operators aren't indirectly charging their customers for the
utilization of the "</span>integers"<span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">. My argument is that such </span>polices<span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium"> are unlikely to be properly
framed or scoped and will generally backfire but </span>its<span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium"> a legitimate discussion if
people want to have it. There is also certainly discussion to
be had as to requiring LIRs to undertake IPv6 operations which
is something I am strongly in favour of.</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">However that isn't the
engagement that is happening.</span><br>
<font size="3" face="Times New Roman" color="#000000"><br>
</font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">It is also probably worth
reiterating that a situation in which there is major
allocation fragmentation to member providers who are small
operators really only serves to produce large membership fee
collections and would inevitably line the pockets of several
insiders.</span><br>
<font size="3" face="Times New Roman" color="#000000"><br>
</font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium">I had actually </span>forgot<span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Times New
Roman";font-size:medium"> that Afrinic leases out address
space on non-commercial terms under section 9 of the CPM and
yes its further illustration of things.</span><br>
<br>
Paul<br>
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