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<p>I get shocked every time I see people trying to make it normal
things like IP Leasing or usage of resources out of the region, as
it it was something from the day by day. The only thing I can
think of this is because that may be interesting financially to
them despite it goes in the totally wrong direction of how IP
space has always been treated and should keep be, always
remembering it is not something the belong to any organization but
is in custody of.<br>
</p>
<p>- What is the point to allow resources issued by a certain RIR to
be used elsewhere in the world and not in the region where they
were originally issued by IANA ? If it was the case then we don't
need RIRs with their own pools and rules, just have a global pool
which would certainly be unfair to certain regions that have
different different needs and evolve in different speeds.<br>
It is understandable certain specific usages like anycast or small
portions of IP space outside the region in order to support the
operations in the region, but not simply an organization come
here, estabilish an legal local company request IP addresses and
go to use them elsewhere in the world.</p>
<p>- Leasing is another absurd that I really fail to understand how
people consider it normal. Just think for a minute: when a
organization request IP space from the RIR it is for its own usage
and for its customers usages which it provides connectivity and
don't have the possibility to hold their own IP space. It is
pretty obvious !<br>
Does it make any sense to justify to the RIR: "I need this extra
IP space in order to lease them to other ASNs which according to
the rules of the their RIR, cannot request anymore". Just look how
absurd this can be !<br>
And works the same for organization who already have IP space
issued. If it is leasing part of it to some other organization
then it is crystal clear that part of those addresses which have
been justified in the past are not needed anymore by that
organization and should be returned as they don't justify for them
anymore. It might sound 'cruel' to those who are doing that but it
is the obvious. Rules can't allow organizations to create 'address
estates' with something they don't own.<br>
And by the way: when a LIR assigns IP addresses to their
connectivity customers this is NOT a lease but an administrative
fee to cover costs to keep all infrastructure necessary to have
those IPs up and running, including the same very administrative
fee that is paid to the RIR for the same proposes.</p>
<p>I invite those who still struggle to understand these points to
make an effort and not make absurd points like this look normal
and acceptable.</p>
<p>Just a final note about transfer process which involves a payment
to the source organization in this case I don't see as an issue
because at least the receiving organization will have to justify
the need to the RIR, so at least community is ensured those
transferred resources will in fact be used by someone who really
need and justify them. So if one has space which is not use
anymore and believe they will never be necessary in the future
just transfer them to another organization and transfer policies
will do what they were thought to do.<br>
</p>
<p>Regards<br>
Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26/06/2021 03:29, Noah wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAEqgTWZbPbFHq3RdogZNm85ffgWjuNeWq+fcpBaWBsFgs4nuGg@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hey Ronald,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You are spot on.....</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have always argued that every single IPv4
integer that numbers a NIC on some router/server on this
continent, goes to have a profound socio-economic impact,
whether its some unemployed AFRINIC youth who has figured
that they can run a small ecommerce business off a local
ecommerce platform or a Telecom/ISP that is doing what it
takes to get every single AFRICAN connected to the
Internet on the AFRICAN Continent.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Folk got guts out here openly telling folks that we
ought to turn intergers into a commodity worthy some
30USD.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">My question to AFRINIC, do your resource
members justification for IPv4 needs, include that of
running IPv4 Leasing? </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Does AFRINIC have IPv4 brokers as resource
members?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Because it seems to me that folk out here
are arguing that IPv4 integers themselves are meant to be
some product sold at 30USD.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">My understanding was that the need for IPv4
was for the intergers to be used by the requester to
number infrastructure for their networks/systems and their
downstram customers/users so as to offer a wide range on
services/products that Impact AFRICA's socio-economically
and politically from, NREN, Higher Learning Institutions,
Agriculture, ISP/Telecoms, Egovernment, FINTECH, SME's,
Ecommerce (I know of unemployed youth leveraging the power
of online platforms to forge a decent life and
economically empower themselves through ecommorce,
entertainment, influencers etc). The true digital
transformation if you will.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">So I really need to understand what Paul is
going on about to ascertain what I view as clear
misunderstanding and misinterpretation of what AFRINIC is
all about.</div>
<div dir="auto"> </div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="auto">Cheers,</div>
<div dir="auto">Noah</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div>PS: RFG ....What is your poison? .... The
least I could do is, ship you a cold Vodka or
The Walking John :-).</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at
2:34 PM Ronald F. Guilmette <<a
href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">In message <<a
href="mailto:17a3d21fad1.bd552ba1206303.7060355078460728919@africaoncloud.net"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">17a3d21fad1.bd552ba1206303.7060355078460728919@africaoncloud.net</a>>,
<br>
Paul Wollner <<a
href="mailto:paul.wollner@africaoncloud.net"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">paul.wollner@africaoncloud.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
>Out-of-region use was extensively discussed<br>
>within the last decade, and it was a consensus that
pre-soft landing space is<br>
>allowed for out-of-region use. Yet, I heard that
AFRINIC seems to be using<br>
>bylaw 6.1 to manage other people's resource usage.
This is not part of AFRINIC<br>
>policy and has, with good reason, never been approved
by the community.<br>
<br>
This happens to be a special point of interest for me.<br>
<br>
Section 6.1 of the Bylaws reads as follows:<br>
<br>
6.1) Subject to the other provisions of this Article,
membership shall<br>
be open to:<br>
<br>
i) any Person who is geographically based within,
and providing<br>
services in the African region, and who is
engaged in the use<br>
of, or business of providing, open system
protocol network<br>
services; or <br>
<br>
ii) any other Person who is approved by the Board
or the members.<br>
<br>
There is no ambiguity here, and the matter is NOT up for
debate. AFRINIC<br>
is a corporate entity and it is -legally obliged- to
conform to its own<br>
Bylaws.<br>
<br>
It is most certainly the case that some persons and
entities who are<br>
currently listed as "members" of AFRINIC simply do not
qualify as such<br>
based on any reasonable reading of the above section of
the Bylaws.<br>
<br>
If the membership wishes to *change* the Bylaws, then it
may be free to<br>
do so, under Mauritius law. But as of this moment, the
Bylaws simply ARE<br>
what the Bylaws are, and they are NOT ambiguous.<br>
<br>
Some parties currently listed as "members" of AFRINIC are
*not* providing<br>
*any* "services in the African region". They are, instead
profiteers and<br>
carpetbaggers who have effectively looted what they could
from AFRINIC and<br>
then laughed all the way to the bank. (I prefer not to
mention any names,<br>
but the handle ORG-FGI1-AFRINIC comes immediately to
mind.)<br>
<br>
You can question whether or not AFRINIC should be allowing
totally free<br>
and totally unfettered use of, and transfers of, IP addres
blocks that <br>
AFRINIC has given out, but then if that was in fact the
plan all along,<br>
then a reasonable person would necessarily have to stop
and ask himself:<br>
"Well, then, what was the point of establishing AFRINIC as
a separate<br>
and independent RIR in the first place anyway?"<br>
<br>
If people were all just going to descend on AFRINIC, like
vultures, grab<br>
whatever they could and then abscond with their booty to
the RIPE region<br>
or the ARIN region or the APNIC region or the LACNIC
region, then we could<br>
all have saved a lot of time and bother by never even
creating AFRINIC in<br>
the first place.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
rfg<br>
<br>
<br>
P.S. I personally would be entirely happy if all of the
five existing RIRs<br>
were folded into a single global entity. That would
certain make it easier<br>
for me, i.e. if I only had to parse a single flavor of
WHOIS records, instead<br>
of five different flavors, like I have to deal with now.
But somehow I<br>
suspect that the various people who work for all five of
these Regional<br>
Internet Registries might hold a somewhat different view
on the matter.<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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moz-do-not-send="true">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
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href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><br>
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