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<p>Hi,</p>
<p>So ... bluntly: Why are you so adamant that you want unallocated
space to be routed/advertisable?</p>
<p>In other words,what's the issue with unallocated space being
listed in AS0?</p>
<p>Even if AS0 was enforced and everyone HAD to use it ... I fail to
see why you would not want to use it.<br>
</p>
<p>Kind Regards,<br>
Jaco</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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p + p { padding-top: 1em; }</style>On 2021/06/08 15:21, jeffery_sky via
RPD wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:290635311.4870210.1623158462914@mail.yahoo.com">
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<div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Hello, <br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"></span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">To clarify, these
concerns are becoming repetitive due to the lack of
adequate responses from the </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">concerned
stakeholders. Also, I want to </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">address the fact
</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">that
the real problem here is not</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"> RPKI in any </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">way. </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">What is really
bothering me is that<b> </b></span><b><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">RIR </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">is </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">injecti</span></b><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><b>ng its own
data into RPKI</b></span><span style="font-size:
18.4px;" dir="ltr">, which makes </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">the </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">previous </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">argument </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">about how signing
space is in</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">valid</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">.</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">Further, </span><span style="font-size:
18.4px;" dir="ltr">the usage of </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">RPKI will </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">lead to</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">AS0 all </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">unallocated space
for you</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">. Consequently</span><span style="font-size:
18.4px;" dir="ltr">, </span><span style="font-size:
18.4px;" dir="ltr">the routing changes</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">.</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">I understand that
some of t</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">hese concerns are repe</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">ated, but I think
it is because they were not </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">addressed
properly. The responses provided are mainly vague and
it seems to me that you are dodging </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">the comments by
bringing the Last call phase procedure and calling out
the PDWG co</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">-</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">chairs. <br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"></span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">The last call
phas</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">e
is dedicated to this type of discussions, and if
several people are not convinced, it </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">simply means that
the co</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">-</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">authors should try providing insightful
responses that go straight to the </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">point, not vague
ones. If this vicious cycle and the lack of proper a</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">nswers continues,
consensus will </span><span style="font-size:
18.4px;" dir="ltr">never happen, and the policy cannot
be implemented. Also, most of the raised objections
have nothing </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">to do with technicalities, therefore, they
are meant to be discussed on the RPD. </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Finally, the
arguments you perceive repe</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">ated, have not
been received accurate replies, which means </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">they will keep
popping out. Consequently, the best thing to do, is to
dig deeper in this proposal, instead </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">of labelling the
arguments as invalid.</span><span style="font-size:
18.4px;" dir="ltr">In the hope of receiving insightful
answers...</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Bes</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">t.</span></font></div>
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<div id="yahoo_quoted_3412224225" class="yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Tuesday, June 8, 2021, 9:40:10 PM GMT+9, Fernando
Frediani <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a> wrote: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">+1<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Excelent and simple answer.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Em 6/8/2021 3:01 AM, Frank Habicht escreveu:<br
clear="none">
> Hi<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> On 08/06/2021 01:45, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:<br
clear="none">
>> Hi,<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Are you postulating here that Resources not
allocated are susceptible to<br clear="none">
>> hijack?<br clear="none">
> - resources are susceptible to hijack.<br
clear="none">
> - if a ROA with AS0 was published for an unallocated
resource, it would<br clear="none">
> be less susceptible to hijack.<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
>> My other understanding is an RIR is a resource
dispenser.<br clear="none">
> When I get my next resource from AfriNIC, I will
prefer one that was not<br clear="none">
> previously hijacked and used for spamming and network
abuse, and got<br clear="none">
> blacklisted and a bad reputation everywhere.<br
clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> What about you?<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Thanks,<br clear="none">
> Frank<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
>> Simply<br clear="none">
>> Daniel<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2021, 11:30 PM Fernando Frediani
<<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a><br
clear="none">
>> <mailto:<a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> AfriNic (or any other RIR) is the resource
holder for IP space that<br clear="none">
>> IANA has allocated to it. So who else could
secure that space until<br clear="none">
>> it is assigned to an organization issuing
ROAs if not the current<br clear="none">
>> resource holder ?<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Must we have a policy accepted by either
RIPE or ARIN first in order<br clear="none">
>> to accept it in AfriNic afterwards ?<br
clear="none">
>> This is not a worry to the RIR, it is
actually an additional<br clear="none">
>> guarantee that no one else will try to make
usage of IP space under<br clear="none">
>> its responsability.<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Fernando<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> On 07/06/2021 19:14, Daniel Yakmut via RPD
wrote:<br clear="none">
>>> Dear Jordi,<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> Just out of curiosity why has RIPE and
ARIN refused to adopt the<br clear="none">
>>> RPKI ROA and make it their
responsibility that it is used by<br clear="none">
>>> resource holder?. I will agree that RPKI
ROA is a good tool to<br clear="none">
>>> secure BGP routing, however I don't see
as the responsibility of<br clear="none">
>>> an RIR to implement it.<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> My strong opinion is that any resource
holder should be<br clear="none">
>>> responsible for securing its resources
and if RPKI ROA is the best<br clear="none">
>>> way to prevent hijack, then it will
enjoy patronage. Making it a<br clear="none">
>>> job of AfriNIC, will possibly be going
over board.<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> Responding to my opening question, I
believe RIPE and ARIN are not<br clear="none">
>>> keen on accepting your arguments because
they are mundane. This<br clear="none">
>>> means resource holders should handle
this issue, without making it<br clear="none">
>>> a worry of the RIR.<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> In this regard, AfriNIC should
concentrate on handling other more<br clear="none">
>>> important issues, hence this policy is
not relevant.<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> Simply<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> Daniel<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> On 07/06/2021 6:3pm, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<br clear="none">
>>>> Ni Mimi,____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> No, is not ideological, the legal
counsel already confirmed the<br clear="none">
>>>> being bookkeepers has many other
**related** implications, such<br clear="none">
>>>> as provide a trustable source of
accurate data, and this is what<br clear="none">
>>>> RPKI and AS0 improve.____<br
clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> The fact that in RIPE has not been
accepted yet is just one more<br clear="none">
>>>> excuse, if you compare it with the
fact that the other TWO RIRs<br clear="none">
>>>> where it has been submitted (APNIC
and LACNIC) accepted it and in<br clear="none">
>>>> none of those regions there have
been any of the excuses and lack<br clear="none">
>>>> of knowledge about RPKI that we are
hearing here. As I’ve<br clear="none">
>>>> explained already, I don’t think the
RIPE chairs decision was<br clear="none">
>>>> correct, and we will make sure to
resubmit the proposal there<br clear="none">
>>>> once a consistent appeal process is
available, in case chairs<br clear="none">
>>>> take again a wrong decision. Also,
then the experience in APNIC,<br clear="none">
>>>> LACNIC and AFRINIC will show that
those motivations are<br clear="none">
>>>> ridiculous.____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> From time to time is good that ARIN
and RIPE aren’t the leaders,<br clear="none">
>>>> you don’t think so? It shows that
very smart people exist in<br clear="none">
>>>> other regions as well!____<br
clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> Once more, sometimes policies in one
or the other region fail to<br clear="none">
>>>> reach consensus, but it happens
sooner or later.____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> If you have a simple and trustable
tool such as RPKI to drop<br clear="none">
>>>> invalids, you have a better way (if
you want) to avoid bad actors<br clear="none">
>>>> to use prefixes that don’t belong to
them as they are still on<br clear="none">
>>>> the hands of AFRINIC. This is just
facts. Not ideological, not<br clear="none">
>>>> opinions or personal view points. So
yes, AS0 avoids, if you<br clear="none">
>>>> operate your network in a consistent
way, to be faked with<br clear="none">
>>>> prefixes not allocated/assigned by
AFRINIC, and thus helps to<br clear="none">
>>>> prevent hijacking.____<br
clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> Regards,____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> Jordi____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> @jordipalet____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> El 7/6/21 18:47, "Mimi dy" <<a
shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com"
href="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">dym5328@gmail.com</a><br
clear="none">
>>>> <mailto:<a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com"
href="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">dym5328@gmail.com</a>>>
escribió:____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> Dear WG,____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> ____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> I think the issue here is
ideological. Many people believe that<br clear="none">
>>>> RIRs are mere bookkeepers, and it is
not in their mandate to<br clear="none">
>>>> inject data into the routing
database. That is the reason why<br clear="none">
>>>> RIPE did not approve a similar
proposal, which I totally agree<br clear="none">
>>>> with. Moreover, I wanted to react to
Jordi’s statement, saying<br clear="none">
>>>> that these objections are based on
practical and technical<br clear="none">
>>>> matters. There is not only one
routing database, there are many,<br clear="none">
>>>> isn’t it kind of messy? And that is
not even the main reason why<br clear="none">
>>>> I object to this policy. ____<br
clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> From another perspective, since
people can adjust and control<br clear="none">
>>>> their routers, can you precise how
this policy can potentially<br clear="none">
>>>> prevent/ reduce hijacking?____<br
clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> ____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> Best.____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>
_______________________________________________ RPD
mailing list<br clear="none">
>>>> <a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<mailto:<a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br
clear="none">
>>>> <a shape="rect"
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
clear="none">
>>>> <<a shape="rect"
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>>
____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>
**********************************************<br
clear="none">
>>>> IPv4 is over<br clear="none">
>>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br
clear="none">
>>>> <a shape="rect"
href="http://www.theipv6company.com " target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com </a><<a
shape="rect" href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a>><br
clear="none">
>>>> The IPv6 Company<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> This electronic message contains
information which may be<br clear="none">
>>>> privileged or confidential. The
information is intended to be for<br clear="none">
>>>> the exclusive use of the
individual(s) named above and further<br clear="none">
>>>> non-explicilty authorized
disclosure, copying, distribution or<br clear="none">
>>>> use of the contents of this
information, even if partially,<br clear="none">
>>>> including attached files, is
strictly prohibited and will be<br clear="none">
>>>> considered a criminal offense. If
you are not the intended<br clear="none">
>>>> recipient be aware that any
disclosure, copying, distribution or<br clear="none">
>>>> use of the contents of this
information, even if partially,<br clear="none">
>>>> including attached files, is
strictly prohibited, will be<br clear="none">
>>>> considered a criminal offense, so
you must reply to the original<br clear="none">
>>>> sender to inform about this
communication and delete it.
<div class="yqt4481908219" id="yqtfd23438"><br
clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>
_______________________________________________<br
clear="none">
>>>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">
>>>> <a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<mailto:<a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br
clear="none">
>>>> <a shape="rect"
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd "
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>><br
clear="none">
>>>
_______________________________________________<br
clear="none">
>>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">
>>> <a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
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ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br
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>>> <a shape="rect"
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd "
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>><br
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>>
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> <a shape="rect"
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
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_______________________________________________<br
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RPD mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
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<a shape="rect"
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
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