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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>(semi-irony mode on)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Wow, so much difficult problem statement! Some possible responses:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:23.25pt;text-indent:-18.0pt'><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:-12.75pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Because some people don’t operate networks, or don’t do it properly?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:-12.75pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Because some people aren’t interested in understanding it or not interested in measures to protect resources, because that will make easy to avoid their improper business models (or even maybe bad activities)?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:-12.75pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Because some people are speaking on behalf others?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=ES-TRAD style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>And all this explains inmature and unreaseanable objections not just to this policy proposal, but to any proposal that try to facilitate the accuracy of the RIRs and simplify the job of good faith operators in a standard way.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Policies aren’t meant to protect business, specially those against the overall community interest. If you’re doing something wrong or in the limit of what is acceptable, you don’t have interest in certain policies.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 8/6/21 8:24, "Mark Elkins" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Well said Frank!<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I still don't understand why some people don't see this.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On 6/8/21 8:01 AM, Frank Habicht wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Hi<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On 08/06/2021 01:45, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Are you postulating here that Resources not allocated are susceptible to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>hijack?<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>- resources are susceptible to hijack.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>- if a ROA with AS0 was published for an unallocated resource, it would<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> be less susceptible to hijack.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>My other understanding is an RIR is a resource dispenser.<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>When I get my next resource from AfriNIC, I will prefer one that was not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>previously hijacked and used for spamming and network abuse, and got<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>blacklisted and a bad reputation everywhere.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>What about you?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Frank<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Simply<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Daniel<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Mon, Jun 7, 2021, 11:30 PM Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"><mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> AfriNic (or any other RIR) is the resource holder for IP space that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> IANA has allocated to it. So who else could secure that space until<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> it is assigned to an organization issuing ROAs if not the current<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> resource holder ?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Must we have a policy accepted by either RIPE or ARIN first in order<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> to accept it in AfriNic afterwards ?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> This is not a worry to the RIR, it is actually an additional<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> guarantee that no one else will try to make usage of IP space under<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> its responsability.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Fernando<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> On 07/06/2021 19:14, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Dear Jordi,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Just out of curiosity why has RIPE and ARIN refused to adopt the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> RPKI ROA and make it their responsibility that it is used by<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> resource holder?. I will agree that RPKI ROA is a good tool to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> secure BGP routing, however I don't see as the responsibility of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> an RIR to implement it.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> My strong opinion is that any resource holder should be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> responsible for securing its resources and if RPKI ROA is the best<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> way to prevent hijack, then it will enjoy patronage. Making it a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> job of AfriNIC, will possibly be going over board.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Responding to my opening question, I believe RIPE and ARIN are not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> keen on accepting your arguments because they are mundane. This<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> means resource holders should handle this issue, without making it<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> a worry of the RIR.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> In this regard, AfriNIC should concentrate on handling other more<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> important issues, hence this policy is not relevant.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Simply<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Daniel<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> On 07/06/2021 6:3pm, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Ni Mimi,____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> No, is not ideological, the legal counsel already confirmed the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> being bookkeepers has many other **related** implications, such<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> as provide a trustable source of accurate data, and this is what<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> RPKI and AS0 improve.____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> The fact that in RIPE has not been accepted yet is just one more<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> excuse, if you compare it with the fact that the other TWO RIRs<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> where it has been submitted (APNIC and LACNIC) accepted it and in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> none of those regions there have been any of the excuses and lack<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> of knowledge about RPKI that we are hearing here. As I’ve<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> explained already, I don’t think the RIPE chairs decision was<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> correct, and we will make sure to resubmit the proposal there<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> once a consistent appeal process is available, in case chairs<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> take again a wrong decision. Also, then the experience in APNIC,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> LACNIC and AFRINIC will show that those motivations are<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> ridiculous.____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> From time to time is good that ARIN and RIPE aren’t the leaders,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> you don’t think so? It shows that very smart people exist in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> other regions as well!____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Once more, sometimes policies in one or the other region fail to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> reach consensus, but it happens sooner or later.____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> If you have a simple and trustable tool such as RPKI to drop<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> invalids, you have a better way (if you want) to avoid bad actors<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> to use prefixes that don’t belong to them as they are still on<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> the hands of AFRINIC. This is just facts. Not ideological, not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> opinions or personal view points. So yes, AS0 avoids, if you<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> operate your network in a consistent way, to be faked with<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> prefixes not allocated/assigned by AFRINIC, and thus helps to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> prevent hijacking.____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Regards,____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Jordi____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> @jordipalet____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> El 7/6/21 18:47, "Mimi dy" <<a href="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com">dym5328@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <a href="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com"><mailto:dym5328@gmail.com></a>> escribió:____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Dear WG,____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> ____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> I think the issue here is ideological. Many people believe that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> RIRs are mere bookkeepers, and it is not in their mandate to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> inject data into the routing database. That is the reason why<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> RIPE did not approve a similar proposal, which I totally agree<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> with. Moreover, I wanted to react to Jordi’s statement, saying<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> that these objections are based on practical and technical<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> matters. There is not only one routing database, there are many,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> isn’t it kind of messy? And that is not even the main reason why<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> I object to this policy. ____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> From another perspective, since people can adjust and control<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> their routers, can you precise how this policy can potentially<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> prevent/ reduce hijacking?____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> ____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Best.____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"><mailto:RPD@afrinic.net></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"><https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd></a> ____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> **********************************************<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> IPv4 is over<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com">http://www.theipv6company.com</a> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com"><http://www.theipv6company.com></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> The IPv6 Company<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> This electronic message contains information which may be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> privileged or confidential. 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