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<p>1) I have on my laptop - RPD emails going back to November 2018 -
and I have never ever seen a post from jeffery_sky
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jeffery_sky-99@yahoo.com"><jeffery_sky-99@yahoo.com></a> before (just checked).<br>
</p>
<p>2) The only information that is "being injected" is into the
space that AFRINIC has not yet allocated/assigned to any Member -
which will just make it easier on the few routers that look at
RPKI information to see that a very bad actor is using space that
should not be visible on the Internet at all. The only folk that
this should bother is Bad Actors who have using this unallocated
/unassigned space on the Internet (thieves?)</p>
<p>I really don't understand the problem. All all the objectors
thieves? (wanting to use/route something that does not belong to
them).<br>
<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/8/21 3:21 PM, jeffery_sky via RPD
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:290635311.4870210.1623158462914@mail.yahoo.com">
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<div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Hello, <br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"></span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">To clarify, these
concerns are becoming repetitive due to the lack of
adequate responses from the </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">concerned
stakeholders. Also, I want to </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">address the fact
</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">that
the real problem here is not</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"> RPKI in any </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">way. </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">What is really
bothering me is that<b> </b></span><b><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">RIR </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">is </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">injecti</span></b><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><b>ng its own
data into RPKI</b></span><span style="font-size:
18.4px;" dir="ltr">, which makes </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">the </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">previous </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">argument </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">about how signing
space is in</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">valid</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">.</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">Further, </span><span style="font-size:
18.4px;" dir="ltr">the usage of </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">RPKI will </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">lead to</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">AS0 all </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">unallocated space
for you</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">. Consequently</span><span style="font-size:
18.4px;" dir="ltr">, </span><span style="font-size:
18.4px;" dir="ltr">the routing changes</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">.</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">I understand that
some of t</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">hese concerns are repe</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">ated, but I think
it is because they were not </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">addressed
properly. The responses provided are mainly vague and
it seems to me that you are dodging </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">the comments by
bringing the Last call phase procedure and calling out
the PDWG co</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">-</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">chairs. <br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"></span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">The last call
phas</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">e
is dedicated to this type of discussions, and if
several people are not convinced, it </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">simply means that
the co</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">-</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">authors should try providing insightful
responses that go straight to the </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">point, not vague
ones. If this vicious cycle and the lack of proper a</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">nswers continues,
consensus will </span><span style="font-size:
18.4px;" dir="ltr">never happen, and the policy cannot
be implemented. Also, most of the raised objections
have nothing </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr">to do with technicalities, therefore, they
are meant to be discussed on the RPD. </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Finally, the
arguments you perceive repe</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">ated, have not
been received accurate replies, which means </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">they will keep
popping out. Consequently, the best thing to do, is to
dig deeper in this proposal, instead </span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">of labelling the
arguments as invalid.</span><span style="font-size:
18.4px;" dir="ltr">In the hope of receiving insightful
answers...</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;"
dir="ltr"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Bes</span><span
style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">t.</span></font></div>
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<div id="yahoo_quoted_3412224225" class="yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Tuesday, June 8, 2021, 9:40:10 PM GMT+9, Fernando
Frediani <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a> wrote: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">+1<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Excelent and simple answer.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Em 6/8/2021 3:01 AM, Frank Habicht escreveu:<br
clear="none">
> Hi<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> On 08/06/2021 01:45, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:<br
clear="none">
>> Hi,<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Are you postulating here that Resources not
allocated are susceptible to<br clear="none">
>> hijack?<br clear="none">
> - resources are susceptible to hijack.<br
clear="none">
> - if a ROA with AS0 was published for an unallocated
resource, it would<br clear="none">
> be less susceptible to hijack.<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
>> My other understanding is an RIR is a resource
dispenser.<br clear="none">
> When I get my next resource from AfriNIC, I will
prefer one that was not<br clear="none">
> previously hijacked and used for spamming and network
abuse, and got<br clear="none">
> blacklisted and a bad reputation everywhere.<br
clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> What about you?<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Thanks,<br clear="none">
> Frank<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
>> Simply<br clear="none">
>> Daniel<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2021, 11:30 PM Fernando Frediani
<<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a><br
clear="none">
>> <mailto:<a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> AfriNic (or any other RIR) is the resource
holder for IP space that<br clear="none">
>> IANA has allocated to it. So who else could
secure that space until<br clear="none">
>> it is assigned to an organization issuing
ROAs if not the current<br clear="none">
>> resource holder ?<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Must we have a policy accepted by either
RIPE or ARIN first in order<br clear="none">
>> to accept it in AfriNic afterwards ?<br
clear="none">
>> This is not a worry to the RIR, it is
actually an additional<br clear="none">
>> guarantee that no one else will try to make
usage of IP space under<br clear="none">
>> its responsability.<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Fernando<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> On 07/06/2021 19:14, Daniel Yakmut via RPD
wrote:<br clear="none">
>>> Dear Jordi,<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> Just out of curiosity why has RIPE and
ARIN refused to adopt the<br clear="none">
>>> RPKI ROA and make it their
responsibility that it is used by<br clear="none">
>>> resource holder?. I will agree that RPKI
ROA is a good tool to<br clear="none">
>>> secure BGP routing, however I don't see
as the responsibility of<br clear="none">
>>> an RIR to implement it.<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> My strong opinion is that any resource
holder should be<br clear="none">
>>> responsible for securing its resources
and if RPKI ROA is the best<br clear="none">
>>> way to prevent hijack, then it will
enjoy patronage. Making it a<br clear="none">
>>> job of AfriNIC, will possibly be going
over board.<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> Responding to my opening question, I
believe RIPE and ARIN are not<br clear="none">
>>> keen on accepting your arguments because
they are mundane. This<br clear="none">
>>> means resource holders should handle
this issue, without making it<br clear="none">
>>> a worry of the RIR.<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> In this regard, AfriNIC should
concentrate on handling other more<br clear="none">
>>> important issues, hence this policy is
not relevant.<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> Simply<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> Daniel<br clear="none">
>>><br clear="none">
>>> On 07/06/2021 6:3pm, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<br clear="none">
>>>> Ni Mimi,____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> No, is not ideological, the legal
counsel already confirmed the<br clear="none">
>>>> being bookkeepers has many other
**related** implications, such<br clear="none">
>>>> as provide a trustable source of
accurate data, and this is what<br clear="none">
>>>> RPKI and AS0 improve.____<br
clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> The fact that in RIPE has not been
accepted yet is just one more<br clear="none">
>>>> excuse, if you compare it with the
fact that the other TWO RIRs<br clear="none">
>>>> where it has been submitted (APNIC
and LACNIC) accepted it and in<br clear="none">
>>>> none of those regions there have
been any of the excuses and lack<br clear="none">
>>>> of knowledge about RPKI that we are
hearing here. As I’ve<br clear="none">
>>>> explained already, I don’t think the
RIPE chairs decision was<br clear="none">
>>>> correct, and we will make sure to
resubmit the proposal there<br clear="none">
>>>> once a consistent appeal process is
available, in case chairs<br clear="none">
>>>> take again a wrong decision. Also,
then the experience in APNIC,<br clear="none">
>>>> LACNIC and AFRINIC will show that
those motivations are<br clear="none">
>>>> ridiculous.____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> From time to time is good that ARIN
and RIPE aren’t the leaders,<br clear="none">
>>>> you don’t think so? It shows that
very smart people exist in<br clear="none">
>>>> other regions as well!____<br
clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> Once more, sometimes policies in one
or the other region fail to<br clear="none">
>>>> reach consensus, but it happens
sooner or later.____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> If you have a simple and trustable
tool such as RPKI to drop<br clear="none">
>>>> invalids, you have a better way (if
you want) to avoid bad actors<br clear="none">
>>>> to use prefixes that don’t belong to
them as they are still on<br clear="none">
>>>> the hands of AFRINIC. This is just
facts. Not ideological, not<br clear="none">
>>>> opinions or personal view points. So
yes, AS0 avoids, if you<br clear="none">
>>>> operate your network in a consistent
way, to be faked with<br clear="none">
>>>> prefixes not allocated/assigned by
AFRINIC, and thus helps to<br clear="none">
>>>> prevent hijacking.____<br
clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> Regards,____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> Jordi____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> @jordipalet____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> El 7/6/21 18:47, "Mimi dy" <<a
shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com"
href="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">dym5328@gmail.com</a><br
clear="none">
>>>> <mailto:<a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com"
href="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">dym5328@gmail.com</a>>>
escribió:____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> __ __<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> Dear WG,____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> ____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> I think the issue here is
ideological. Many people believe that<br clear="none">
>>>> RIRs are mere bookkeepers, and it is
not in their mandate to<br clear="none">
>>>> inject data into the routing
database. That is the reason why<br clear="none">
>>>> RIPE did not approve a similar
proposal, which I totally agree<br clear="none">
>>>> with. Moreover, I wanted to react to
Jordi’s statement, saying<br clear="none">
>>>> that these objections are based on
practical and technical<br clear="none">
>>>> matters. There is not only one
routing database, there are many,<br clear="none">
>>>> isn’t it kind of messy? And that is
not even the main reason why<br clear="none">
>>>> I object to this policy. ____<br
clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> From another perspective, since
people can adjust and control<br clear="none">
>>>> their routers, can you precise how
this policy can potentially<br clear="none">
>>>> prevent/ reduce hijacking?____<br
clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> ____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> Best.____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>
_______________________________________________ RPD
mailing list<br clear="none">
>>>> <a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<mailto:<a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br
clear="none">
>>>> <a shape="rect"
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
clear="none">
>>>> <<a shape="rect"
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>>
____<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>
**********************************************<br
clear="none">
>>>> IPv4 is over<br clear="none">
>>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br
clear="none">
>>>> <a shape="rect"
href="http://www.theipv6company.com " target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com </a><<a
shape="rect" href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a>><br
clear="none">
>>>> The IPv6 Company<br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>> This electronic message contains
information which may be<br clear="none">
>>>> privileged or confidential. The
information is intended to be for<br clear="none">
>>>> the exclusive use of the
individual(s) named above and further<br clear="none">
>>>> non-explicilty authorized
disclosure, copying, distribution or<br clear="none">
>>>> use of the contents of this
information, even if partially,<br clear="none">
>>>> including attached files, is
strictly prohibited and will be<br clear="none">
>>>> considered a criminal offense. If
you are not the intended<br clear="none">
>>>> recipient be aware that any
disclosure, copying, distribution or<br clear="none">
>>>> use of the contents of this
information, even if partially,<br clear="none">
>>>> including attached files, is
strictly prohibited, will be<br clear="none">
>>>> considered a criminal offense, so
you must reply to the original<br clear="none">
>>>> sender to inform about this
communication and delete it.
<div class="yqt4481908219" id="yqtfd23438"><br
clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>><br clear="none">
>>>>
_______________________________________________<br
clear="none">
>>>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">
>>>> <a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<mailto:<a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br
clear="none">
>>>> <a shape="rect"
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd "
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
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href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>><br
clear="none">
>>>
_______________________________________________<br
clear="none">
>>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">
>>> <a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<mailto:<a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br
clear="none">
>>> <a shape="rect"
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd "
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>><br
clear="none">
>>
_______________________________________________<br
clear="none">
>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">
>> <a shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
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>> <a shape="rect"
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>><br
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>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">
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RPD mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
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<p>Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: <a href="tel:+27826010496">+27.826010496</a><br>
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a
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