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</div><div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Hello, <br></span></font></div><div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"></span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">To clarify, these concerns are becoming repetitive due to the lack of adequate responses from the </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">concerned stakeholders. Also, I want to </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">address the fact </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">that the real problem here is not</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"> RPKI in any </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">way. </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">What is really bothering me is that<b> </b></span><b><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">RIR </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">is </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">injecti</span></b><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><b>ng its own data into RPKI</b></span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">, which makes </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">the </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">previous </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">argument </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">about how signing space is in</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">valid</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">.</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Further, </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">the usage of </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">RPKI will </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">lead to</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">AS0 all </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">unallocated space for you</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">. Consequently</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">, </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">the routing changes</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">.</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">I understand that some of t</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">hese concerns are repe</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">ated, but I think it is because they were not </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">addressed properly. The responses provided are mainly vague and it seems to me that you are dodging </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">the comments by bringing the Last call phase procedure and calling out the PDWG co</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">-</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">chairs. <br></span></font></div><div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"></span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">The last call phas</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">e is dedicated to this type of discussions, and if several people are not convinced, it </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">simply means that the co</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">-</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">authors should try providing insightful responses that go straight to the </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">point, not vague ones. If this vicious cycle and the lack of proper a</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">nswers continues, consensus will </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">never happen, and the policy cannot be implemented. Also, most of the raised objections have nothing </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">to do with technicalities, therefore, they are meant to be discussed on the RPD. </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Finally, the arguments you perceive repe</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">ated, have not been received accurate replies, which means </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">they will keep popping out. Consequently, the best thing to do, is to dig deeper in this proposal, instead </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">of labelling the arguments as invalid.</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">In the hope of receiving insightful answers...</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Bes</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">t.</span></font></div><div id="ydp28923adaouterContainer">
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On Tuesday, June 8, 2021, 9:40:10 PM GMT+9, Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani@gmail.com> wrote:
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<div><div dir="ltr">+1<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Excelent and simple answer.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Em 6/8/2021 3:01 AM, Frank Habicht escreveu:<br clear="none">> Hi<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> On 08/06/2021 01:45, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:<br clear="none">>> Hi,<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Are you postulating here that Resources not allocated are susceptible to<br clear="none">>> hijack?<br clear="none">> - resources are susceptible to hijack.<br clear="none">> - if a ROA with AS0 was published for an unallocated resource, it would<br clear="none">> be less susceptible to hijack.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">>> My other understanding is an RIR is a resource dispenser.<br clear="none">> When I get my next resource from AfriNIC, I will prefer one that was not<br clear="none">> previously hijacked and used for spamming and network abuse, and got<br clear="none">> blacklisted and a bad reputation everywhere.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> What about you?<br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">> Thanks,<br clear="none">> Frank<br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">>> Simply<br clear="none">>> Daniel<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2021, 11:30 PM Fernando Frediani <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">>> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> AfriNic (or any other RIR) is the resource holder for IP space that<br clear="none">>> IANA has allocated to it. So who else could secure that space until<br clear="none">>> it is assigned to an organization issuing ROAs if not the current<br clear="none">>> resource holder ?<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Must we have a policy accepted by either RIPE or ARIN first in order<br clear="none">>> to accept it in AfriNic afterwards ?<br clear="none">>> This is not a worry to the RIR, it is actually an additional<br clear="none">>> guarantee that no one else will try to make usage of IP space under<br clear="none">>> its responsability.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Fernando<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> On 07/06/2021 19:14, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:<br clear="none">>>> Dear Jordi,<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> Just out of curiosity why has RIPE and ARIN refused to adopt the<br clear="none">>>> RPKI ROA and make it their responsibility that it is used by<br clear="none">>>> resource holder?. I will agree that RPKI ROA is a good tool to<br clear="none">>>> secure BGP routing, however I don't see as the responsibility of<br clear="none">>>> an RIR to implement it.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> My strong opinion is that any resource holder should be<br clear="none">>>> responsible for securing its resources and if RPKI ROA is the best<br clear="none">>>> way to prevent hijack, then it will enjoy patronage. Making it a<br clear="none">>>> job of AfriNIC, will possibly be going over board.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> Responding to my opening question, I believe RIPE and ARIN are not<br clear="none">>>> keen on accepting your arguments because they are mundane. This<br clear="none">>>> means resource holders should handle this issue, without making it<br clear="none">>>> a worry of the RIR.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> In this regard, AfriNIC should concentrate on handling other more<br clear="none">>>> important issues, hence this policy is not relevant.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> Simply<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> Daniel<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> On 07/06/2021 6:3pm, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<br clear="none">>>>> Ni Mimi,____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> No, is not ideological, the legal counsel already confirmed the<br clear="none">>>>> being bookkeepers has many other **related** implications, such<br clear="none">>>>> as provide a trustable source of accurate data, and this is what<br clear="none">>>>> RPKI and AS0 improve.____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> The fact that in RIPE has not been accepted yet is just one more<br clear="none">>>>> excuse, if you compare it with the fact that the other TWO RIRs<br clear="none">>>>> where it has been submitted (APNIC and LACNIC) accepted it and in<br clear="none">>>>> none of those regions there have been any of the excuses and lack<br clear="none">>>>> of knowledge about RPKI that we are hearing here. As I’ve<br clear="none">>>>> explained already, I don’t think the RIPE chairs decision was<br clear="none">>>>> correct, and we will make sure to resubmit the proposal there<br clear="none">>>>> once a consistent appeal process is available, in case chairs<br clear="none">>>>> take again a wrong decision. Also, then the experience in APNIC,<br clear="none">>>>> LACNIC and AFRINIC will show that those motivations are<br clear="none">>>>> ridiculous.____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> From time to time is good that ARIN and RIPE aren’t the leaders,<br clear="none">>>>> you don’t think so? It shows that very smart people exist in<br clear="none">>>>> other regions as well!____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> Once more, sometimes policies in one or the other region fail to<br clear="none">>>>> reach consensus, but it happens sooner or later.____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> If you have a simple and trustable tool such as RPKI to drop<br clear="none">>>>> invalids, you have a better way (if you want) to avoid bad actors<br clear="none">>>>> to use prefixes that don’t belong to them as they are still on<br clear="none">>>>> the hands of AFRINIC. This is just facts. Not ideological, not<br clear="none">>>>> opinions or personal view points. So yes, AS0 avoids, if you<br clear="none">>>>> operate your network in a consistent way, to be faked with<br clear="none">>>>> prefixes not allocated/assigned by AFRINIC, and thus helps to<br clear="none">>>>> prevent hijacking.____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> Regards,____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> Jordi____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> @jordipalet____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> El 7/6/21 18:47, "Mimi dy" <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com" href="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com">dym5328@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">>>>> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com" href="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com">dym5328@gmail.com</a>>> escribió:____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> Dear WG,____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> ____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> I think the issue here is ideological. Many people believe that<br clear="none">>>>> RIRs are mere bookkeepers, and it is not in their mandate to<br clear="none">>>>> inject data into the routing database. That is the reason why<br clear="none">>>>> RIPE did not approve a similar proposal, which I totally agree<br clear="none">>>>> with. Moreover, I wanted to react to Jordi’s statement, saying<br clear="none">>>>> that these objections are based on practical and technical<br clear="none">>>>> matters. There is not only one routing database, there are many,<br clear="none">>>>> isn’t it kind of messy? And that is not even the main reason why<br clear="none">>>>> I object to this policy. ____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> From another perspective, since people can adjust and control<br clear="none">>>>> their routers, can you precise how this policy can potentially<br clear="none">>>>> prevent/ reduce hijacking?____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> ____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> Best.____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list<br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br clear="none">>>>> <<a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>> ____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> **********************************************<br clear="none">>>>> IPv4 is over<br clear="none">>>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" href="http://www.theipv6company.com " target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com </a><<a shape="rect" href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a>><br clear="none">>>>> The IPv6 Company<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> This electronic message contains information which may be<br clear="none">>>>> privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for<br clear="none">>>>> the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further<br clear="none">>>>> non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or<br clear="none">>>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially,<br clear="none">>>>> including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be<br clear="none">>>>> considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended<br clear="none">>>>> recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or<br clear="none">>>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially,<br clear="none">>>>> including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be<br clear="none">>>>> considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original<br clear="none">>>>> sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<div class="yqt4481908219" id="yqtfd23438"><br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>>>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd " target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd </a><<a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>><br clear="none">>>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">>>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br clear="none">>>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd " target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd </a><<a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>><br clear="none">>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br clear="none">>> <<a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>><br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br clear="none">>><br clear="none">> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">RPD mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br clear="none"></div></div></div>
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