<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Hi everyone,<div><br><div>I truly hope the co chairs are not being coerced to forcefully pass this policy by any party.</div><div><br><div>There were several objections stated in meeting and on mailing list. In the meeting, the only two individuals who stated their support for the policy also added that the policy needs some adjustments before being passed. To my surprise, the policy was moved to the last call.</div><div><br></div><div>There are several objections that have not been resolved to the satisfaction of some members of the community. Personally I see the fact as there is no clear timeline - in policy - to when the AS0 should be removed for reacquired resources or in the case of wrongfully assignment of AS0.</div><div><br></div><div>On a more general note. I am very skeptical about giving the current Afrinic such duties (power /weapon). An Afrinic where emails sent or unsent disappears, an Afrinic where the board selects where certain rules are followed and where some can be overlooked (like in d case of ongoing appeals). I see a bigger picture where “wrong assignment” of AS0 to “disliked” resource holder resources will be a norm. More especially as there is no stated timeline for this resolve.</div><div><br></div><div>I understand the value of this policy. But I think some part of the policies still needs to be further discussed, To achieve the actual goal of the authors. <br><br><div dir="ltr">Kind regards. </div><div dir="ltr">Taiwo</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jun 8, 2021, at 14:24, jeffery_sky via RPD <rpd@afrinic.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="ydp6d537214yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div></div>
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</div><div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Hello, <br></span></font></div><div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"></span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">To clarify, these concerns are becoming repetitive due to the lack of adequate responses from the </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">concerned stakeholders. Also, I want to </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">address the fact </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">that the real problem here is not</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"> RPKI in any </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">way. </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">What is really bothering me is that<b> </b></span><b><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">RIR </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">is </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">injecti</span></b><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><b>ng its own data into RPKI</b></span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">, which makes </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">the </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">previous </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">argument </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">about how signing space is in</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">valid</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">.</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Further, </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">the usage of </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">RPKI will </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">lead to</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">AS0 all </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">unallocated space for you</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">. Consequently</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">, </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">the routing changes</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">.</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">I understand that some of t</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">hese concerns are repe</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">ated, but I think it is because they were not </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">addressed properly. The responses provided are mainly vague and it seems to me that you are dodging </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">the comments by bringing the Last call phase procedure and calling out the PDWG co</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">-</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">chairs. <br></span></font></div><div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"></span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">The last call phas</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">e is dedicated to this type of discussions, and if several people are not convinced, it </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">simply means that the co</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">-</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">authors should try providing insightful responses that go straight to the </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">point, not vague ones. If this vicious cycle and the lack of proper a</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">nswers continues, consensus will </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">never happen, and the policy cannot be implemented. Also, most of the raised objections have nothing </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">to do with technicalities, therefore, they are meant to be discussed on the RPD. </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Finally, the arguments you perceive repe</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">ated, have not been received accurate replies, which means </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">they will keep popping out. Consequently, the best thing to do, is to dig deeper in this proposal, instead </span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">of labelling the arguments as invalid.</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">In the hope of receiving insightful answers...</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="times new roman, new york, times, serif"><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">Bes</span><span style="font-size: 18.4px;" dir="ltr">t.</span></font></div><div id="ydp28923adaouterContainer">
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On Tuesday, June 8, 2021, 9:40:10 PM GMT+9, Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani@gmail.com> wrote:
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<div><div dir="ltr">+1<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Excelent and simple answer.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Em 6/8/2021 3:01 AM, Frank Habicht escreveu:<br clear="none">> Hi<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> On 08/06/2021 01:45, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:<br clear="none">>> Hi,<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Are you postulating here that Resources not allocated are susceptible to<br clear="none">>> hijack?<br clear="none">> - resources are susceptible to hijack.<br clear="none">> - if a ROA with AS0 was published for an unallocated resource, it would<br clear="none">> be less susceptible to hijack.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">>> My other understanding is an RIR is a resource dispenser.<br clear="none">> When I get my next resource from AfriNIC, I will prefer one that was not<br clear="none">> previously hijacked and used for spamming and network abuse, and got<br clear="none">> blacklisted and a bad reputation everywhere.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> What about you?<br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">> Thanks,<br clear="none">> Frank<br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">>> Simply<br clear="none">>> Daniel<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2021, 11:30 PM Fernando Frediani <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">>> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> AfriNic (or any other RIR) is the resource holder for IP space that<br clear="none">>> IANA has allocated to it. So who else could secure that space until<br clear="none">>> it is assigned to an organization issuing ROAs if not the current<br clear="none">>> resource holder ?<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Must we have a policy accepted by either RIPE or ARIN first in order<br clear="none">>> to accept it in AfriNic afterwards ?<br clear="none">>> This is not a worry to the RIR, it is actually an additional<br clear="none">>> guarantee that no one else will try to make usage of IP space under<br clear="none">>> its responsability.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Fernando<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> On 07/06/2021 19:14, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:<br clear="none">>>> Dear Jordi,<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> Just out of curiosity why has RIPE and ARIN refused to adopt the<br clear="none">>>> RPKI ROA and make it their responsibility that it is used by<br clear="none">>>> resource holder?. I will agree that RPKI ROA is a good tool to<br clear="none">>>> secure BGP routing, however I don't see as the responsibility of<br clear="none">>>> an RIR to implement it.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> My strong opinion is that any resource holder should be<br clear="none">>>> responsible for securing its resources and if RPKI ROA is the best<br clear="none">>>> way to prevent hijack, then it will enjoy patronage. Making it a<br clear="none">>>> job of AfriNIC, will possibly be going over board.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> Responding to my opening question, I believe RIPE and ARIN are not<br clear="none">>>> keen on accepting your arguments because they are mundane. This<br clear="none">>>> means resource holders should handle this issue, without making it<br clear="none">>>> a worry of the RIR.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> In this regard, AfriNIC should concentrate on handling other more<br clear="none">>>> important issues, hence this policy is not relevant.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> Simply<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> Daniel<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> On 07/06/2021 6:3pm, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<br clear="none">>>>> Ni Mimi,____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> No, is not ideological, the legal counsel already confirmed the<br clear="none">>>>> being bookkeepers has many other **related** implications, such<br clear="none">>>>> as provide a trustable source of accurate data, and this is what<br clear="none">>>>> RPKI and AS0 improve.____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> The fact that in RIPE has not been accepted yet is just one more<br clear="none">>>>> excuse, if you compare it with the fact that the other TWO RIRs<br clear="none">>>>> where it has been submitted (APNIC and LACNIC) accepted it and in<br clear="none">>>>> none of those regions there have been any of the excuses and lack<br clear="none">>>>> of knowledge about RPKI that we are hearing here. As I’ve<br clear="none">>>>> explained already, I don’t think the RIPE chairs decision was<br clear="none">>>>> correct, and we will make sure to resubmit the proposal there<br clear="none">>>>> once a consistent appeal process is available, in case chairs<br clear="none">>>>> take again a wrong decision. Also, then the experience in APNIC,<br clear="none">>>>> LACNIC and AFRINIC will show that those motivations are<br clear="none">>>>> ridiculous.____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> From time to time is good that ARIN and RIPE aren’t the leaders,<br clear="none">>>>> you don’t think so? It shows that very smart people exist in<br clear="none">>>>> other regions as well!____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> Once more, sometimes policies in one or the other region fail to<br clear="none">>>>> reach consensus, but it happens sooner or later.____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> If you have a simple and trustable tool such as RPKI to drop<br clear="none">>>>> invalids, you have a better way (if you want) to avoid bad actors<br clear="none">>>>> to use prefixes that don’t belong to them as they are still on<br clear="none">>>>> the hands of AFRINIC. This is just facts. Not ideological, not<br clear="none">>>>> opinions or personal view points. So yes, AS0 avoids, if you<br clear="none">>>>> operate your network in a consistent way, to be faked with<br clear="none">>>>> prefixes not allocated/assigned by AFRINIC, and thus helps to<br clear="none">>>>> prevent hijacking.____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> Regards,____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> Jordi____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> @jordipalet____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> El 7/6/21 18:47, "Mimi dy" <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com" href="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com">dym5328@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">>>>> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com" href="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com">dym5328@gmail.com</a>>> escribió:____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> __ __<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> Dear WG,____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> ____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> I think the issue here is ideological. Many people believe that<br clear="none">>>>> RIRs are mere bookkeepers, and it is not in their mandate to<br clear="none">>>>> inject data into the routing database. That is the reason why<br clear="none">>>>> RIPE did not approve a similar proposal, which I totally agree<br clear="none">>>>> with. Moreover, I wanted to react to Jordi’s statement, saying<br clear="none">>>>> that these objections are based on practical and technical<br clear="none">>>>> matters. There is not only one routing database, there are many,<br clear="none">>>>> isn’t it kind of messy? And that is not even the main reason why<br clear="none">>>>> I object to this policy. ____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> From another perspective, since people can adjust and control<br clear="none">>>>> their routers, can you precise how this policy can potentially<br clear="none">>>>> prevent/ reduce hijacking?____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> ____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> Best.____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list<br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br clear="none">>>>> <<a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>> ____<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> **********************************************<br clear="none">>>>> IPv4 is over<br clear="none">>>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" href="http://www.theipv6company.com " target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com </a><<a shape="rect" href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a>><br clear="none">>>>> The IPv6 Company<br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> This electronic message contains information which may be<br clear="none">>>>> privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for<br clear="none">>>>> the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further<br clear="none">>>>> non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or<br clear="none">>>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially,<br clear="none">>>>> including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be<br clear="none">>>>> considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended<br clear="none">>>>> recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or<br clear="none">>>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially,<br clear="none">>>>> including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be<br clear="none">>>>> considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original<br clear="none">>>>> sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<div class="yqt4481908219" id="yqtfd23438"><br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>><br clear="none">>>>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>>>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br clear="none">>>>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd " target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd </a><<a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>><br clear="none">>>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">>>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br clear="none">>>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd " target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd </a><<a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>><br clear="none">>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>><br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br clear="none">>> <<a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>><br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br clear="none">>><br clear="none">> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">RPD mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br clear="none"></div></div></div>
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