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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span class=EstiloCorreo21><span style='font-size:12.0pt'></span></span><span class=EstiloCorreo21><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Paschal,<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=EstiloCorreo21><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=EstiloCorreo21><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Sorry, maybe I missed your point in the discussion, not easy to follow tons of comments at the same time!<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=EstiloCorreo21><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=EstiloCorreo21><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Let’s depict this:<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=EstiloCorreo21><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US>AFRINIC is empowered to reclaim resources when the members don’t pay, don’t follow the RSA, etc. I’m sure everybody agrees with that.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US>Even if we don’t have this policy, AFRINIC has already internal procedures in place for that reclamation.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US>When this policy is implemented, AFRINIC has still the same rights and duties to reclaim the resources, nothing changes.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US>However, in the v2 discussion, it was stated that it should be clearer. This is why we added that text. Internally doesn’t change anything in how AFRINIC will act, however, it makes an explicit declaration that they only can do that (in regards to the AS0), at the end of the reclamation process.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Yes, some may say that this sentence is not needed, and I will agree, but then we can have *<b>again</b>* the same discussion as in v2. So having that doesn’t change the *<b>actual action from AFRINIC</b>* but ensures that everybody understands it: so, makes it crystal clear.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>So, NO, the policy is not attribuing *<b>anything different or new</b>* to AFRINIC, just making it transparent (“only at the end of the reclamation process”).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>If you believe that it can be improved in terms of *<b>editorial changes</b>* (alternative wording, not changing the meaning), chairs could accept that as part of the last call, but only if it is clear that it is a rewording to make it clearer not a meaning change.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Please, let me know if this address your comment or if I’m missing your point.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 8/6/21 10:03, "Paschal Ochang" <<a href="mailto:pascosoft@gmail.com">pascosoft@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Well said Jordi.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>They may be people who do not manage networks but have reasonable contributions to improve or develop some of the discussions. At least we have witnessed that some of the policies have been fine tuned by some of these inputs.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>My issue with this proposal is the reclamation statement which I reiterated in the chat in the meeting that it looks too ambiguous. When it comes to reclamation there are grey and contentious areas that I think should not be attributed with this policy.<br><br>On Tuesday, June 8, 2021, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Saul,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>While I understand your point, I think that we need to agree that sometimes, non-operators, also provide points of view that help to improve policies. Also, there may be policies where the discussion will not be well balanced if only operators participate, because are not so closely related to operation, and instead to how to distribute resources that belong to the overall community.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>I will prefer non-anonymous postings, but I also understand that some people may not be able to speak freely if they show their real names or work email (they may be even fired if their personal view point is against the corporate policy, etc.). It’s all about a good balance.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>What definitively is not good is if you are speaking up on behalf of others, which has been clear in several discussions and policy presentations for the last couple of years or so.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>The issue is how much difficulty is added into the chairs to distinguish if an argument pro or against a proposal is valid or not, which means that they may need to verify, in some cases, a technical question that is not within their competences to ensure if there is lack of knowledge or mistaken interpretations from any parties in the discussion.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>However, I’m sure chairs have other folks, work colleagues, staff, or experts not involved in the discussion that can help them.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>I think that was part of the difficulty with previous chairs. I’m sure they tried their best, but they did some mistakes by accepting objections which are clearly technical wrong and not hearing other worldwide recognized community experts that clarified it.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I think it is up to chairs to say, if they think so, “do not reapeat this arguments” as we have already decided about being invalid, and clarify what is expected in the last call, so to avoid wasting time, as I’ve suggested a couple of days ago.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>El 8/6/21 9:27, "Saul Stein" <<a href="mailto:saul@enetworks.co.za" target="_blank">saul@enetworks.co.za</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Hi<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>I say this as an AFRINIC member who is affected by the policies that are either implemented or NOT implemented.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>While I agree with the community, bottom up approach, I am starting to have an issue where the term “community” is a little stretched. By that, I mean people who are in or out of the region, with apparent little to no understanding of networks anonymously (gmail, representing themselves without us knowing what networks they run and or manage) holding the discussion and policy to ransom.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>I have on issues with people who represent and run networks from anywhere willing to assist in the betterment of our policies. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>As someone once said, with freedom, comes responsibility. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Just my 2c worth<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 08 June 2021 08:38<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Last Call - RPKI ROAs for Unallocated and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT03.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US>(semi-irony mode on)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US>Wow, so much difficult problem statement! Some possible responses:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:94.05pt'><span lang=EN-US> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:94.05pt'>1)<span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Because some people don’t operate networks, or don’t do it properly?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:94.05pt'>2)<span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Because some people aren’t interested in understanding it or not interested in measures to protect resources, because that will make easy to avoid their improper business models (or even maybe bad activities)?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:94.05pt'>3)<span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Because some people are speaking on behalf others?</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=ES-TRAD style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>And all this explains inmature and unreaseanable objections not just to this policy proposal, but to any proposal that try to facilitate the accuracy of the RIRs and simplify the job of good faith operators in a standard way.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Policies aren’t meant to protect business, specially those against the overall community interest. If you’re doing something wrong or in the limit of what is acceptable, you don’t have interest in certain policies.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>El 8/6/21 8:24, "Mark Elkins" <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p style='margin-left:106.2pt'>Well said Frank!<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:106.2pt'>I still don't understand why some people don't see this.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>On 6/8/21 8:01 AM, Frank Habicht wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>Hi<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>On 08/06/2021 01:45, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>Are you postulating here that Resources not allocated are susceptible to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>hijack?<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>- resources are susceptible to hijack.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>- if a ROA with AS0 was published for an unallocated resource, it would<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> be less susceptible to hijack.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>My other understanding is an RIR is a resource dispenser.<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>When I get my next resource from AfriNIC, I will prefer one that was not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>previously hijacked and used for spamming and network abuse, and got<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>blacklisted and a bad reputation everywhere.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>What about you?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>Frank<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>Simply<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>Daniel<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>On Mon, Jun 7, 2021, 11:30 PM Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'><a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank"><mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> AfriNic (or any other RIR) is the resource holder for IP space that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> IANA has allocated to it. So who else could secure that space until<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> it is assigned to an organization issuing ROAs if not the current<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> resource holder ?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Must we have a policy accepted by either RIPE or ARIN first in order<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> to accept it in AfriNic afterwards ?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> This is not a worry to the RIR, it is actually an additional<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> guarantee that no one else will try to make usage of IP space under<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> its responsability.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Fernando<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> On 07/06/2021 19:14, Daniel Yakmut via RPD wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Dear Jordi,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Just out of curiosity why has RIPE and ARIN refused to adopt the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> RPKI ROA and make it their responsibility that it is used by<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> resource holder?. I will agree that RPKI ROA is a good tool to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> secure BGP routing, however I don't see as the responsibility of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> an RIR to implement it.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> My strong opinion is that any resource holder should be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> responsible for securing its resources and if RPKI ROA is the best<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> way to prevent hijack, then it will enjoy patronage. Making it a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> job of AfriNIC, will possibly be going over board.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Responding to my opening question, I believe RIPE and ARIN are not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> keen on accepting your arguments because they are mundane. This<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> means resource holders should handle this issue, without making it<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> a worry of the RIR.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> In this regard, AfriNIC should concentrate on handling other more<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> important issues, hence this policy is not relevant.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Simply<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Daniel<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> On 07/06/2021 6:3pm, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Ni Mimi,____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> No, is not ideological, the legal counsel already confirmed the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> being bookkeepers has many other **related** implications, such<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> as provide a trustable source of accurate data, and this is what<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> RPKI and AS0 improve.____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> The fact that in RIPE has not been accepted yet is just one more<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> excuse, if you compare it with the fact that the other TWO RIRs<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> where it has been submitted (APNIC and LACNIC) accepted it and in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> none of those regions there have been any of the excuses and lack<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> of knowledge about RPKI that we are hearing here. As I’ve<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> explained already, I don’t think the RIPE chairs decision was<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> correct, and we will make sure to resubmit the proposal there<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> once a consistent appeal process is available, in case chairs<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> take again a wrong decision. Also, then the experience in APNIC,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> LACNIC and AFRINIC will show that those motivations are<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> ridiculous.____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> From time to time is good that ARIN and RIPE aren’t the leaders,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> you don’t think so? It shows that very smart people exist in<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> other regions as well!____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Once more, sometimes policies in one or the other region fail to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> reach consensus, but it happens sooner or later.____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> If you have a simple and trustable tool such as RPKI to drop<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> invalids, you have a better way (if you want) to avoid bad actors<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> to use prefixes that don’t belong to them as they are still on<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> the hands of AFRINIC. This is just facts. Not ideological, not<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> opinions or personal view points. So yes, AS0 avoids, if you<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> operate your network in a consistent way, to be faked with<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> prefixes not allocated/assigned by AFRINIC, and thus helps to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> prevent hijacking.____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Regards,____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Jordi____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> @jordipalet____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> El 7/6/21 18:47, "Mimi dy" <<a href="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com" target="_blank">dym5328@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <a href="mailto:dym5328@gmail.com" target="_blank"><mailto:dym5328@gmail.com></a>> escribió:____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> __ __<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Dear WG,____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> ____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> I think the issue here is ideological. Many people believe that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> RIRs are mere bookkeepers, and it is not in their mandate to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> inject data into the routing database. That is the reason why<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> RIPE did not approve a similar proposal, which I totally agree<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> with. Moreover, I wanted to react to Jordi’s statement, saying<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> that these objections are based on practical and technical<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> matters. There is not only one routing database, there are many,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> isn’t it kind of messy? And that is not even the main reason why<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> I object to this policy. ____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> From another perspective, since people can adjust and control<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> their routers, can you precise how this policy can potentially<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> prevent/ reduce hijacking?____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> ____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Best.____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><mailto:RPD@afrinic.net></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"><https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd></a> ____<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> **********************************************<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> IPv4 is over<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a> <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank"><http://www.theipv6company.com></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> The IPv6 Company<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> This electronic message contains information which may be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> use of the contents of this information, even if partially,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> use of the contents of this information, even if partially,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><mailto:RPD@afrinic.net></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"><https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd></a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><mailto:RPD@afrinic.net></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"><https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd></a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><mailto:RPD@afrinic.net></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"><https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'>RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:106.2pt'><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:106.2pt'>Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br><a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: <a href="tel:+27826010496" target="_blank">+27.826010496</a><br>For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a href="https://ftth.posix.co.za" target="_blank">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br><br><img border=0 width=250 height=165 style='width:2.6041in;height:1.7187in' id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D75C51.8B9ABFC0" alt="Posix
Systems"><img border=0 width=164 height=164 style='width:1.7083in;height:1.7083in' id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image002.png@01D75C51.8B9ABFC0" alt="VCARD for
MJ Elkins"><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br>-- <br>Kind regards, <o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Paschal.<o:p></o:p></p></div><br>**********************************************<br>
IPv4 is over<br>
Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
http://www.theipv6company.com<br>
The IPv6 Company<br>
<br>
This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br>
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