<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Times New Roman \(Cuerpo en alfa";
panose-1:2 2 6 3 5 4 5 2 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML con formato previo Car";
margin:0cm;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.apple-converted-space
{mso-style-name:apple-converted-space;}
span.HTMLconformatoprevioCar
{mso-style-name:"HTML con formato previo Car";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML con formato previo";
font-family:Consolas;}
span.EstiloCorreo23
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:70.85pt 3.0cm 70.85pt 3.0cm;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:500774437;
mso-list-template-ids:-1164834684;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I think the base of the problem is understanding that registry (AFRINIC organization) and community (PDWG) are different things and that the community *<b>choose</b>* that the registry is the organization offering the support to the community.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The community is the one that has the power on the policy development. The registry *<b>must</b>* follow the community wishes, but at the same time it must protect the membership.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>However, if the community decides that the organization is not being useful anymore or acting against the community, it can decide to find and alternative organization.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Yes, it will be a very bad situation, and not an easy path, but a possible one.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>To avoid that, it is better that the community provides explicit permission to AFRINIC for certain aspects that today are miswritten in the bylaws and not made explicit in the PDP.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>For example, the bylaws talk about urgent policies for resources, but the PDP don’t explicitly say that, so the bylaws attributed to the organization something that the community MUST authorize.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I also agree that the organization has legal power for things that a non-legal organization such the community could not resolve, and I think is good that the community explicitly provides the organization certain additional attributions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 9/4/21 3:42, "Fernando Frediani" <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Owen, unfortunately you are still missing the point and keep repeating the something again and again in what look a hope to defend the suppose right of the RIR to edit policies unilaterally ignoring the empowered community if they wish so just because it is written in the bylaws.<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Look, I never denied that as a corporation registered in Mauritius AfriNic may do what whatever the bylaws allow them to do. However as a RIR they CAN NOT.<br>For being and remaining to be a RIR goes much beyond any corporate bylaws and stick to rules that go beyond a corporate bylaw. If they dare to do that they will be usurping prerogatives that don't belong to them as a RIR (look I said *as a RIR*), that must stick to principles that are above the constitution of a corporation in Mauritius or any other country RIRs are registered.<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>If that ever happens IT IS indeed that case for empowered community to question the recognition of that corporation as a recognized RIR everywhere is due. The corporation may continue existing as a registered corporation in the country but other Internet related organizations may stop to recognize it as a RIR if it goes against and ignore the empowered community by doing such an act which they, are a RIR, don't have the right to do.<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Please try to understand the difference between the 2 things before you reply saying I am wrong.<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On 08/04/2021 20:40, Owen DeLong wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>You’re still 100% wrong about that. AFRINIC is an organization that runs a registry. They are a corporation. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>The corporation MUST act according to its bylaws and the bylaws give the board authority as described.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>IF the board chooses to utilize that authority, there is no basis for the corporation to contravene it and the<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>only recourse is for the community to reject the action at a later time.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Doing so will not call into question the continued existence of AFRINIC, it will not be a crisis, it will<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>likely be unpopular and will likely be controversial, but eventually, the controversy will resolve and the<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>policy will either be ratified by the community or rejected by the community and we will return to some<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>new form of normal.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Owen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Apr 7, 2021, at 11:01 , Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>On 07/04/2021 14:43, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans:
auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><clip></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>.</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Board could ratify a proposal but if they don’t agree with it, considering the bylaws, they could also at the same time, approve a “contrary” policy, which will be in place immediately *<b>until</b>* it is endorsed by the community at the next meeting. If not endorsed, it will then be withdrawed.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>That part of bylaws means nothing to PDWG. If they would ever do that it would open a precedent that has the potential to question AfriNic internationally to continuing to existing and be recognized as a RIR.<br>Bylaws is made by members-only and members-only are not allowed to determine unilaterally what the policies will be unless that is give to them by PDWG which has never happened.<br style='caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps: normal;text-align:start;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Therefore that part of the bylaws should be rejected, dismissed and ideally removed by the next General Assembly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt;caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-variant-caps: normal;text-align:start;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Fernando<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;font-variant-caps: normal;orphans:
auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 7/4/21 19:20, "Noah" <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz">noah@neo.co.tz</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 7:48 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>I need to disagree with you here.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Both proposals reached consensus. That’s a fact.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>No Jordi the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>Resource Transfer Policy</b> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span>with all its multiple versions, v.1 v.2, v.3 and I believe v.4 did not reach consensus due to lack of following the process.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I know you are obsessed with wanting to see an IPv4 Inter-RIR transfer policy in place within our AFRINIC service region but that has to only happen through a clear PDP process and with all valid objections addressed including the serious financial implication that AFRINIC staff indicated when tasks by its resource members not withstanding staff impact analysis. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>One of them is pending on an appeal, so the board need to wait for that to be resolved.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Yes and that is part of the process and the appeals state clearly why that specific proposal never achieved consensus and why it should be taken back to the WG for further discussion.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>In any case, the board could return both proposals to the PDWG, if they have *<b>strong</b>* reasons to object to the ratification.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>They could even decide that they ratify the proposal but also take a “contrary” proposal, which will take immediate effect, to be endorsed by the community in the next meeting, which can leave without effect the ratification.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I would not support such a rushed move by the AFRINIC board. If a proposal has issues, it's the role of the WG to fine tune it until the WG agrees that yes, now we have a proposal that the co-chairs can send to the board for consideration like we have done with so many proposals in the past.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Therefore, your piecemeal approach is very dangerous and we have taken some lessons from past mistakes as a WG that we can not afford to rush with piecemeal proposals just because folks can come back and fine tune the said policy. Why not the WG resolve all issues with the proposal before it can be sent for ratification. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>FWIW, Inter-RIR transfer proposals especially for our region ought to be treated with caution in light of all the fraud and we shall not blindly rush things here Jordi.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='margin-left:35.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Noah <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com/">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br></span><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>RPD@afrinic.net</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'><br></span><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD@afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd <o:p></o:p></p></div><br>**********************************************<br>
IPv4 is over<br>
Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
http://www.theipv6company.com<br>
The IPv6 Company<br>
<br>
This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br>
<br>
</body></html>