<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 27, 2021, at 07:57 , Arnaud AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" class="">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 22 févr. 2021 à 23:03, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> a écrit :<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 19, 2021, at 16:21 , Arnaud AMELINA <<a href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 15px; color: rgb(32, 31, 30); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 15px; color: rgb(32, 31, 30); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 15px; color: rgb(32, 31, 30); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><i class=""><b class="">Silent your opposition? Never, but as said above, you are just one voice which counts like others, and you should allow and encourage others, especially those who live or are operating in this region to also speak and live with the outcome.</b></i></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>While I don’t live in the region, I do have involvement in operations in the region, so your above statement is yet another example of how you’ve gotten it wrong about me.</div><div class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Why are you personalizing this? And again missing important points made.</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>You made it personal… “You should allow…others…especially those who live or are operating in this region…”</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I reacted directly. You have repeatedly engaged in ad hominem attacks on me and on my participation here.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You left out my important points from that message in your quote as well.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">While The PDP and its discussions on rpd and at meetings are open to all interested parties , There are things like appointing cochairs or being cochairs which have always been reserved for people living in the regions or operating in the region. Operating in the region is demonstrated by being a PoC of Afrinic member.</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div>Being chair is reserved for people living in the region. Appointing them is specifically open to everyone in attendance at the applicable PDWG meeting.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Operating in the region cannot possibly be limited to being a PoC of an AFRINIC member. It’s an absurd misclassification. Are you claiming that the peering coordinator for an ISP who is not their IP administrator and therefore not on the POC list would not be someone considered to be operating in the region? That is absurd.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Security officers, NOC engineers and we can keep the list on going... </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">would any of these have allowed me to vote for ARIN AC, if I am not listed as a PoC of an ARIN member?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>If they were the designated voting representative for an ARIN member organization, yes.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>The ARIN AC is not elected by the community, they are (much to my disappointment) elected by the ARIN membership. A situation which I have fought to change for years, even before I joined the AC. If you doubt this, you are free to confirm it with John Curran, with whom I have frequently discussed this very matter.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_quote" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">This is how it is defined here and you may want to pursue its amendment.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Really? Where is that definition? Please show it to me in the bylaws, the CPM, or the Election Process document.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>This is how you have arbitrarily chosen to express it with no basis as near as I can tell.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_quote" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Those who are residing in the region can show it. The non-resident who claims to be operating in the AFRINIC service region should show it by being a registered and authorized contact of an AFRINIC resource member in good standing</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Do you doubt that I am operating in the AFRINIC service region?</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Do you doubt that I am a genuine participant in the process here?</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Are you really attempting to claim that I am a sock puppet here?</div><div><br class=""></div><div>It would be very easy for me to get added as a contact by multiple African organizations, but I’ve never seen the need to do so as yet. Presence in whois is as representative of whether one is an operator in the region or not as possession of a national id card can be used to confirm a lack of criminal record. It’s simply not a valid way to judge.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_quote" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">AFRINIC is still a Regional Internet Registry</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Exactly. And xenophobia has no place in the policy process in any RIR.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Your participation in the ARIN policy development process would be every bit as welcome as mine. Same with LACNIC, APNIC, and RIPE-NCC.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>My participation in AFRINIC policies predates my presence in the region and even in some ways predates AFRINIC, as you are so fond of occasionally pointing out.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Interestingly, it was not until I began working with a particular AFRINIC member organization that my participation here was ever even questioned.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>The co-chair selection rules in the PDP (as documented in the CPM) are quite clear. The working group eligible to elect co-chairs is those present at the meeting whether in person or remotely. Since we cannot have in-person meetings, the closest we can come is a remote meeting, which for whatever reason my proposal for how a vote could be conducted during such an event was not accepted by the community.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>So we are down to on-line voting. However, it is incumbent upon those who wish to conduct an on-line election to do so in a manner which complies with the existing voter eligibility rules, not make up new rules as they see fit without the consensus of this community.</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">If you qualify there is no endless discussions to have. Let the system operate.</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></div>Well, I do not qualify by your proposed criteria, but then neither do more than half of the people operating networks in the region.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You continue to seek ways in which you can legitimize your efforts to reduce or eliminate my participation in the process, and you continue to fail.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Nobody can reduce or eliminate your participation in the Policy development process as it is open to anyone interested to participate…</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Part of that includes the selection of co-chairs.</div><div> <br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div class=""></div><div class="">If you don’t wish to continue this “endless discussion”, then all you need to do is admit that my participation is legitimate and stop acting like I should be some second-class presence in the community.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Whatever you call it does not really matter... </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">there are always limitations to all of us when it come to things restricted to a particular region, group, etc...</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">While we can participate and be heard in any RIR activities...restrictions do apply.</div><div dir="auto" class="">Nothing new or special.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Sure, but you are seeking to impose new restrictions which never existed before. I have participated in several co-chair election in the past and nobody has questioned my participation or even hinted that I should not.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Now you seek to tell me that I an ineligible based on a criteria which does not exist in any document governing such elections.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Show me the rule, I’ll abide by it, but so far, you’re just making them up out of thin air. As long as you continue to do that, I will continue to expose it for the fraud that it is.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""></div></body></html>