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<p>Hello Wijdane,</p>
<p>I read you clearly, and I understand what you quote. You
obviously did not address the issue I raised about "What happens
when a lack of convergence in the working group, puts the
"distribution" company in Jeopardy. Should there not be any
safeguard?"</p>
<p>Regarding your assuming one is throwing up unforseen senarios,
who had the inclination that some people will rather cling to some
positions, rather than seekk consensus as best as possible? I
looked again at what you quoted: ... "<span
style="font-size:12pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US"><b>consultation, discussion
and consensus</b>" Where is the voting? Think also about some
safeguard.<br>
</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:12pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">We are making progress.</span></p>
<p>Sunday.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/23/21 2:15 PM, Wijdane Goubi
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMcGv++Zig42LRaMDKWir92hbGTwFkQb1BPog6KfXa=MtJ9J-A@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">Hello Sunday,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm
10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">The CPM states clearly in
the very first lines of it that it is a
reference document where policies are created through a
bottom-up Policy
Development Process of <b>consultation, discussion and
consensus</b> through
which policy proposals are submitted, debated (by the
community) and adopted
(by AFRINIC). All <b>ratified</b> and implemented policies
that have gone
through the PDP are integrated into the CPM.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;margin:0cm
0cm 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"
lang="EN-US">The CPM states also in the section of approval:
“The
Working Group Chair(s) shall recommend the draft policy to
the AFRINIC Board of
Directors <b>for approval</b> if it has the consensus of
the Policy Development
Working Group. The recommendation shall include a report of
the discussions of
the draft policy and feedback from the Last Call. The draft
policy shall be
ratified by the AFRINIC Board of Directors.</span>”</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;margin:0cm
0cm 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif" lang="EN-US">Which implies, if the PDWG
ever decided
by consensus to pass a certain policy, the board of
directors can question their
decision ,ensure there isn’t any sort of negligence,
ignorance or carelessness and
then decide whether to ratify it or not. </span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"
lang="EN-US">Yet, we cannot keep creating
different types of scenarios that we might never encounter
or face and consume
time discussing them unless we really need to address a
matter otherwise we’ll
always end up either violating the CPM/PDP or on our way to
violate them. </span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;margin:0cm
0cm 10pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"
lang="EN-US">Wijdane </span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 22 févr. 2021 à 19:09,
Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">sfolayan@skannet.com</a>> a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Goubi,<br>
</p>
<p>First, let me be clear, I do not agree with the Board
modifying the CPM. This is not the same as the need for
the existence of 11.4 in the bylaws.</p>
<p>On to the existence of 11.4 in the bylaws ...<br>
</p>
<p>What will happen if PDWG passes a policy that will
bankrupt the company? or could not pass a policy that will
stabilize the company? Not by malice, but say ... by
negligence or sheer exuberance? <br>
</p>
<p>What happens when a lack of convergence in the working
group, puts the "distribution" company in Jeopardy.
Should there not be any safeguard?</p>
<p>If the PWDG therefore recognizes and accepts the
existence of the safe-guard that the forward-looking
lawyers have put in place in the Bylaws, for the benefit
of all, What is wrong with such a help if it is recognized
by the PDWG? <br>
</p>
<p>How does the fact that the PDWG then accepts the
existence of that safeguard .... violate the bottom-up
process?<br>
</p>
<p>Just asking, because everything up, certainly started
from down!</p>
<p>Sunday.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 2/22/21 6:18 PM, Wijdane Goubi wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hello Jordi,<br>
Let me point out as well that the bylaws is a document
that was drafted by lawyers and that should have no
relevance in the management of the PDP. The fact that
you are trying to create a conflict between both is
jeopardizing the core purpose of the bottom-up process.
You can’t just skip the community and its consensus and
allow the board to modify the CPM/PDP. The only waste of
time in this entire situation is trying to invent
non-existent solutions that do not comply with the PDP
in the first place.
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Wijdane</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 22 févr. 2021
à 10:34, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi SM,<br>
<br>
I fully understand the difference between community
and PDWG, precisely I was traying to put all them, to
show that I believe, everybody understands that there
are several (not just 2) "groups" involved in what we
do "related to AFRINIC and the PDP".<br>
<br>
Even if the situation is not urgent for you, it is for
others in the PDWG. Even if this is only my case, I
think it is important. So please, forget for a minute
if it is important or not, let's stick to the wording
of 11.4 and my question, and let me to rephrase them
to exclude the emergency aspect:<br>
<br>
Is the Board understanding that they can adopt
policies only related to Resources or also policies
not related to resources which modifying the CPM/PDP?<br>
<br>
I've added CPM/PDP, because we can see in the CPM
parts witch are "clearly" related to resources, others
"indirectly" related to resources, and others clearly
related to the PDP itself and not Resources at all.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Jordi<br>
@jordipalet<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
El 21/2/21 16:23, "S. Moonesamy" <<a
href="mailto:sm%2Baf@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">sm+af@afrinic.net</a>>
escribió:<br>
<br>
Dear Jordi,<br>
At 02:26 AM 21-02-2021, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
wrote:<br>
>No, my question is not about the CPM/PDP text.
I think it is clear <br>
>for everybody the distinction there between
"AFRINIC <br>
>organization/membership" vs "AFRINIC
community/PDWG".<br>
<br>
There is a distinction between the Working Group
and the "community", <br>
i.e. the Working Group is a subset of the
"community".<br>
<br>
>My question is about the Board interpretation
of the Article 11.4 of <br>
>the bylaws. Is the Board understanding that
they can (in urgent <br>
>situations, such as the one we are facing)
adopt policies only <br>
>related to Resources or also policies that not
being related to <br>
>resources but modifying the PDP?<br>
<br>
I'll have to look at the minutes of the last Board
meeting to see <br>
whether there was a discussion of Article 11.4. I
doubt that the <br>
situation could be described as urgent. That is
based on my reading <br>
of the members-discuss mailing list.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
S. Moonesamy<br>
<br>
Board Chair, AFRINIC <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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