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<div dir="auto">Sylvain,<br>
</div>
<p>You wrote</p>
<div dir="auto"><b>"10| Let's back to the PDP to do the only task
we PDWG are allowed to do without our Chairs. Sunday, please
can you handle the process to help the PDWG to enforce its
PDP?" </b><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Enforcing the PDP is not the role of anyone
person. We all should be active and vigilant.<br>
<br>
I can initiate things, by pointing out that many wrongs do not
make a right. Sometimes, in haste, we fail to look at the
details, nor pause to look at small details. No matter how far
one may have gone in a wrong direction, it is best to
course-correct as soon as possible.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
Jordi acted in good faith, with some level of urgency to move the
group forward, but missed a very important step ... ie properly
volunteer to be a temporary WG Co-Chair, and wait for some
acclamation. It will not have called for his legitimacy being
questioned, specifically by Arnaud with:<br>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><b>"Who appointed you in this role? don’t you think
board, staff are following discussions and can make their own
minds and judgment on the discussions and the outcomes? Or is
your intention to influence or bias discussion".</b> <br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I still insist that the provisions of the PDP,
according to the CPM is:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><font color="#0"><b><span style="font-family:
Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial;
text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline !important;
float: none;">"If the Working Group Chair is unable to serve
his or her full term, the Working Group may select a
replacement to serve the remainder of the term. If the
Working Group Chairs are unable to attend the Public Policy
Meeting, the Working Group shall nominate a Chair for the
session. Anyone present at the meeting, whether in person or
by remote participation, may participate in the selection
process for a temporary Chair"</span></b></font></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="color: rgb(117, 117, 117); font-family:
Roboto, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255,
255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; display: inline !important; float: none;"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">See the word selection process there? That is what
we need to define by consensus. As a working group, we can select
our Co-Chairs, by simply asking the staff/Policy Liaison to call
for volunteers, and shepherd the process, reverting always to the
WG for guidance, when needed (which ultimately defines the
process)<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I like the proposition by Noah, specifically:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><b>"Can AFRINIC staff and specifically Madhvi take
up the lead and work with the WG to ensure that its following
the CPM to fill the vacancy.
I dont support the rushed work that was done here by Jordi since
there is already claims of misinteretation.
Please afford this working group time to self organise"</b></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I urge everyone to adopt it, as a way forward with
an Affirmative YES. Personally, I support the above
CPM-compatible line of action.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Anyone can also propose some other CPM-Compatible
action</div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Sunday.<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/18/21 1:04 PM, Sylvain Baya wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJjTEvE9VnQB9XQA3K4Oie0k_VtaDAynaKAFj8dTzrMX=L8eYA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">{start a new thread from [1]}</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Dear PDWG,<br>
<br>
Hope you are safe and well!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><tl;dr></div>
<div dir="auto">This PDWG has violated its own PDP by reaching a
consensus non PDP-compliant. In fact, the actualités CPM
(version 1.6) contains no provision which could allow the PDWG
to varying the process without at least one PDWG's Chair in
place.</div>
<div dir="auto"><tl;dr></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">...i first want to thank Jordi, for have
right•ful•ly </div>
<div dir="auto">decided to coordinate PDWG actions during </div>
<div dir="auto">this post-recall PDWG's Chairs transition
period. </div>
<div dir="auto">He did well (because the PDP [2] implicitely </div>
<div dir="auto">allows it, by leaving the howto question {see
CPM </div>
<div dir="auto">section 3.3 [3]} to the implementors), but,
IMHO, Jordi </div>
<div dir="auto">also failed to stick to only what was allowed </div>
<div dir="auto">by the PDP [3]. This is were what Fernando </div>
<div dir="auto">have tried to explain below is really
relevant...i </div>
<div dir="auto">can also refer to more than two emails where </div>
<div dir="auto">Sunday is trying to enlightening that lack of
PDP compliance. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Some observations or facts to consider:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">~°~</div>
<div dir="auto">•1| First, the final action made [4] on tuesday
by Jordi, </div>
<div dir="auto">on behalf of the PDWG is a good proof that if </div>
<div dir="auto">appropriately conducted, the consensus-driven </div>
<div dir="auto">mecanism can work very well in this AfriNIC's </div>
<div dir="auto">PDWG.</div>
<div dir="auto">•2| The PDP is *sufficiently* clear about the
emergency </div>
<div dir="auto">procedure to use when it comes to replacing </div>
<div dir="auto">the PDWG's Chair(s) before the end of
mandate(s).</div>
<div dir="auto">•3| The PDP is also clear (see CPM section 3.6
[5]) </div>
<div dir="auto">about who from the PDWG can varying the process </div>
<div dir="auto">(PDP) and in which kind of circonstances.</div>
<div dir="auto">•4| This post-recall PDWG's Chairs time makes </div>
<div dir="auto">an interesting precedent to study and without </div>
<div dir="auto">at least one of its Chairs, the PDWG is leaved </div>
<div dir="auto">with no mean to varying the process by itself...</div>
<div dir="auto">•5| ...within the CPM (version 1.6) [6] even a </div>
<div dir="auto">consensus reached by the PDWG during this </div>
<div dir="auto">emergency time *MUST* be bond to the few </div>
<div dir="auto">tasks allowed by the PDP (select the new PDWG's </div>
<div dir="auto">Chairs; then continue to follow the PDP)...we </div>
<div dir="auto">failed on it; then we are in violation to the
actual PDP.</div>
<div dir="auto">•6| Yes! by the PDP, this PDWG is allowed to do </div>
<div dir="auto">only very few things without its Chairs. Doing </div>
<div dir="auto">more than those things is a clear violation </div>
<div dir="auto">of the PDP.</div>
<div dir="auto">•7| AfriNIC's BoD has its prerogatives and we
are </div>
<div dir="auto">sure it shall act accordingly if we, PDWG, fail </div>
<div dir="auto">to enforce our PDP. Therefore there is no need </div>
<div dir="auto">to violate our own PDP to do something which </div>
<div dir="auto">will be surely do soon by the BoD. That's doing </div>
<div dir="auto">something of non incidence...</div>
<div dir="auto">•8| With the new PDWG's Chairs in action, of
course, </div>
<div dir="auto">the fact that the PDWG can not actually varying </div>
<div dir="auto">the process by itself (raise a problem) could </div>
<div dir="auto">be consider and therefore handled by proposing </div>
<div dir="auto">a DPP (Draft Policy Proposal) to change at
least </div>
<div dir="auto">it for example...</div>
<div dir="auto">•9| Jordi has proved a good ability to conduct </div>
<div dir="auto">the PDWG, he is therefore a proven-good
candidate </div>
<div dir="auto">as a replacement PDWG's Chair, for us, IMHO.</div>
<div dir="auto">10| Let's back to the PDP to do the only task </div>
<div dir="auto">we PDWG are allowed to do without our Chairs. </div>
<div dir="auto">Sunday, please can you handle the process </div>
<div dir="auto">to help the PDWG to enforce its PDP? </div>
<div dir="auto">~°~</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">...i want to call the PDWG once more [7], to
firmly </div>
<div dir="auto">defend its PDP; because that is the most
important </div>
<div dir="auto">thing to do, IMHO, during these difficult times.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">If you see things differently, i look forward </div>
<div dir="auto">to reading you too! ;-)</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks & Blessed thursday!</div>
<div dir="auto">__</div>
<div dir="auto">[1]: <<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/thread.html#12428"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/thread.html#12428</a>></div>
<div dir="auto">[2]: <<span style="font-family:sans-serif"><a
href="https://afrinic.net/policy/manual#PDP"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://afrinic.net/policy/manual#PDP</a></span>></div>
<div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">[3]: <<a
href="https://afrinic.net/policy/manual#PDWG"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://afrinic.net/policy/manual#PDWG</a>></div>
<div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">[4]: <<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/012425.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/012425.html</a>></div>
<div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">[5]: <<a
href="https://afrinic.net/policy/manual#Varying-Process"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://afrinic.net/policy/manual#Varying-Process</a>></div>
<div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">[6]: <<a
href="https://afrinic.net/cpm-1-6" moz-do-not-send="true">https://afrinic.net/cpm-1-6</a>></div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">[7]: <<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/012358.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/012358.html</a>></div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Shalom,</div>
<div dir="auto">--sb.<br>
<br>
<div dir="auto" class="elided-text">
<div dir="ltr">Le mer. 17 févr. 2021 02:46, Fernando
Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hello Gregoire</p>
<p>Well, the PDP makes it clear that is up to the WG to
select the Co-Chairs, no one else (point 3.3). It
doesn't have a fallback mechanism or even a point
which allows the WG defer that decision to the Board.<br>
This is different from when something is not mentioned
at all and is considered not covered by current rules.<br>
</p>
<p>So anything different from what is in the PDP right
now is a change in the PDP and a change in the PDP can
only be done via the due process with rough consensus
when we have new Co-Chairs in place. Even if the WG
would decide unanimously right now to defer that
decision it is something that cannot be done at the
present because the current PDP as written forbids it
having it clear the only way Co-Chairs can be chosen. <br>
</p>
<p>I keep hoping the Board will organize the elections
soon and we will be able to progress in this matter
with the natural way which is the WG choosing.<br>
Hope also in the next change we have to adjust the PDP
we can include the possibility for the Board to be
able to select temporary/interim Co-Chairs during
unforeseen situation and it is in other RIRs.<br>
</p>
<p>Regards<br>
Fernando<br>
</p>
<div>[...]</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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