<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">+1<div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 9, 2021, at 4:12 AM, Mark Elkins <<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" class="">mje@posix.co.za</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class=""><p class="">Regarding the recall of the Co-Chairs - a line was drawn in the
sand. The Co-Chairs were found wanting and have been recalled. You
can't go back and move that line - so the recall must stand.</p><p class="">Regarding mailing list registrations - I really have issues when
people by the names of PorkyProtection <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:PorkyProtection@protonmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><PorkyProtection@protonmail.com></a>
and sock-puppet-420 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sock-puppet-420@protonmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><sock-puppet-420@protonmail.com></a>
are able to subscribe and write to the lists - especially if they
are able to also potentially vote. I understand that some people
may require more than one email address (Private & Company)
but the two above examples show some have taken this liberty too
far. I personally think people should only be added after some
form of validation is performed. People should only be allowed to
vote from one email address (any that they have "validated") and
only after 12 months of existence according to their validation
(so they can still change email addresses and remain valid).<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/9/21 11:47 AM, Dewole Ajao via RPD
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:ad6dfa61-bf46-6746-828b-a74788b45f46@forum.org.ng" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class=""><p class="">The proposed election process may have been workable if we did
not already have contention over an unusual/unexplained surge in
mailing list registrations a couple of moons ago. Setting a cut
off date before that surge then cuts off some real humans that
joined the mailing list after the surge. What to do?</p><p class="">Dewole.<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/9/2021 10:13 AM, Owen DeLong
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:27D343F1-B4BC-454E-A534-BB7086EA6D36@delong.com" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
The co-chair model is by far the more common model among all the
RIRs.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">However, there is one exception and I will say
that in its region, it has served the community rather well
throughout the history of that RIR.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It’s also the region where I have the greatest
familiarity, now being in my 14th year of service in that
body.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In our region, we have 15 members and they come
from diverse segments of the community (cloud providers, large
ISPs, small ISPs, individuals, and more).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Being that I have been involved for so long in
that process at such a deep level, my view may be somewhat
biased, but if the PDWG wishes to pursue a transition towards
an Advisory Council structure instead of just 2 co-chairs, I’m
happy to contribute my knowledge and experience to that
process.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">However, this should not be the immediate fix to
the current situation.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The current situation should be resolved in the
most efficient possible way to achieve a fair and open
election from the existing participants in the community.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Lacking co-chairs to lead the process, I think it
should probably fall to the election committee to manage the
election process. I propose that:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>EC
set a date (in the past) at which time you must have been a
member of the RPD</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>list
in order to vote. This should prevent any room stacking and
allay any fears of room-stacking.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>EC
sets a date (~10-14 days out) when nominations open. Anyone
eligible person wishing to serve may</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>self-nominate
or be nominated by another. EC should collect and validate all
such</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>nominations.
All validated nominees should be placed on a slate.
Nominations should</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>run
for 1 week from the opening date.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Each
candidate should be able to submit a video and written
statement to be posted on the</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>AfriNIC
web site at the same time as the slate is announced.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4.<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Two
weeks after announcement of the slate, voting should commence
and run for 1 week.</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Each
member should make a ranked-choice vote of 1 or more
candidates to hold the office.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>If
you aren’t familiar with ranked-choice voting, <a href="https://ballotpedia.org/Ranked-choice_voting_(RCV)" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://ballotpedia.org/Ranked-choice_voting_(RCV)</a></div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>provides
good detail.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Essentially,
the votes are counted in consecutive rounds, starting with
everyone’s first choice.</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The
candidate receiving the lowest percentage vote in each round
is eliminated and their votes</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>are
transferred to the next choice of each voter who had
contributed to their total votes.</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span></div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>In
this case, since we are electing two co-chairs, once the first
candidate reaches a ≥50%</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>majority
in the ranked-choices, they should be selected to serve out
the longer term and</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>the
next-highest ranked candidate should be selected to serve out
the shorter term.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Even this process will take time, but I think we
should have a deliberate process and a proper election</div>
<div class="">for the fairness of all.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Owen</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Feb 9, 2021, at 00:16 , Dewole Ajao via
RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=""><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Actually there
is no king in the PDP, fortunately or unfortunately.
Hopefully though, the market will be coordinated as
best possible using the untested rules we have to work
with in this case.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">My take:</p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">PDP (section
3.5) says a co-chair may be recalled (with request and
justification sent to the board of directors);
Logically, the recall process ends in either recall of
the co-chair or continuation of his/her term. That's
all that the conflict resolution section states and as
such we will have to go to another part of the PDP
that makes mention of a truncated co-chair term.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">The applicable
section (i.e. 3.3) says the Working Group may select a
replacement to serve the remainder of the term. Given
the current polarized state of this working group,
perhaps Afrinic staff under the guidance of the CEO
and some advisory from the Board (being the
representatives of resource members) could convene an
online meeting in which the working group properly
analyzes the situation and chooses a path forward?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Considering our
current fear of room stacking ahead of either face to
face and online polls, it would be interesting to see
how we resolve this one. Is this the birth of a PDWG
led by a small group rather than 2 individuals? A
group given a mandate to somehow tidy up many of the
flaws in the current PDP?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Regards,</p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Dewole who
quickly runs off to get a flame retardant suit :-P<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="caret-color: rgb(0,
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration:
none;">On 2/9/2021 7:17 AM, Daniel Yakmut via RPD
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:05fe0c92-2a6a-e549-cb49-47c725d76a85@gmail.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration:
none;" class=""><p class="">I don't agree Fernando, a committee does
not usually have that 'absoluteness' you mentioned.
I can also understand the remarks 'Findings/Outcome
of the Recall Committee' to mean that there is a
hanging process.</p><p class="">Please, the committee's outcome remains
that the Co-Chairs should be recalled. There must be
a pronouncement from the board that constituted the
Recall committee. This is not a market square so we
cannot take the 'shout of a mad man in the market to
mean the proclamation of the king'. The king must
speak through the authorised channel, before the
people can accept.</p><p class="">Therefore, we wait!</p><p class="">Simply</p><p class="">Daniel<br class="">
</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/02/2021 3:18 am,
Badru Ntege wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:41165EF8-C41E-40D5-BE6D-28D1DA530C24@nftconsult.com" class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page:
WordSection1;">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US">I believe this is the
correct understanding of the outcome. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US">We now need to move
forward with the selection of new co-chairs.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US">The community is
committed to accept the outcome of the
committee.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US">Lets move on.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US">Regards. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color:
rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Fernando
Frediani<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a><br class="">
<b class="">Date:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Tuesday,
9 February 2021 at 01:45<br class="">
<b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"rpd
>> AfriNIC Resource Policy"<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re:
[rpd] PDWG situation without co-chairs<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">No
Daniel, the output of the Recall Committee
regarding the Co-Chairs is already final (read
point 19 from their report) according to whats
the CPM says about it, so it does not have to
be approved by anyone, not even the Board
itself.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">So
currently we don't have any Co-Chairs.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">What the Committee has mentioned
in the document is for the Board to lead
the election of the new Co-Chairs and
determine the transition during this
interim.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">That's it.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Fernando<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On
Mon, 8 Feb 2021, 19:29 Daniel Yakmut via
RPD, <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true" style="color: blue;
text-decoration: underline;" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none
solid; border-left-width: 1pt;
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt;
margin-right: 0cm;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Here
we are indeed in a strange situation, which
we created for<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
ourselves. A situation we were drumming for.
I thought we all had it<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
figured out and that is why we called for
recall of the Co-chairs.<br class="">
<br class="">
I am baffled that Jordi is already making a
suggestion on how to proceed<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
to get new Co-Chairs. When the
recommendations of the Recall Committee<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
has not being assented to. Though, I don't
know who is to approve the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
recommendations of the committee.<br class="">
<br class="">
Hence, the response of Jordi is not tenable
here, since I have not seen<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
any declaration that, we don't have
co-chairs. I am aware that the Alan<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
Barret led committee made recommendations,
which requires acceptance,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
approval and implementation.<br class="">
<br class="">
I am rather seeing a strange situation in
the haste that is being<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
suggested on how to deal with the 'situation
of no Co-chairs'.<br class="">
<br class="">
I am currently studying the documents
provided by the Recall Committee,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
to enable one make an appropriate comment.
But, at this early stages the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
outcome of the committees report remains
just recommendations.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Simply,<br class="">
<br class="">
Daniel<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
On 08/02/2021 9:52 pm, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
via RPD wrote:<br class="">
> Hi all,<br class="">
><br class="">
> We are in a very strange situation now.<br class="">
><br class="">
> We have no co-chairs, we have no
meetings (because the Covid) so elections
could take place.<br class="">
><br class="">
> The Recall Committee suggested that the
section 3.3 of the CPM shall take effect (if
the working group chair is unable to serve
his or her full term the WG may select a
replacement to serve the remainder of the
term).<br class="">
><br class="">
> The Recall Committee report already
suggested that the PDWG should work on this
and coordinate with the board.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Guys, this is our "problem" as a
community. Remember that the board is only
helping the community here organizing the
elections.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Is not the board who choose the
candidates and elects them it is our tasks.
Remember that without co-chairs, we can't
advance with our work. Who takes care of
ensuring a profitable discussion in the list
for any policy proposal (and we have many in
the table), or even ensuring that there is
not any abuse or bad behavior during this
period?<br class="">
><br class="">
> I will like to propose a few ideas and
I hope that others also do the same.
Remember that this is transition period:<br class="">
><br class="">
> 1) Ask the board to choose among
previous co-chairs that already have proven
experience (and hopefully they accept).<br class="">
> 2) Nominate ourselves those previous
co-chairs.<br class="">
> 3) A combination of both 1 and 2 above
(example, board nominates one, the community
another).<br class="">
> 4) Instead of looking for a temporary
replacement, asking the board to organize
elections in a maximum of 4-6 weeks, using
the same procedure that was prepared for the
last time and using the same electoral
census.<br class="">
><br class="">
> If we want to board to hear us and take
a decision, we should try to reach consensus
*among us* without co-chairs. I know it
seems difficult, but I'm convinced that at
difficult times, this community will be able
to work together.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Eddy, I will love to hear also what you
have to say, or if the board already has
worked out something, etc.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Thanks in advance!<br class="">
><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
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