<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Mirriam, <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Of course it is very justifiable to hold anyone and in this case to hold the elected leaders accountable for their failures but the reasons has to be genuine and justifiable reasons. </div><div class="">Nonetheless, as you might have noticed, I do not have any grievances with the leaders but rather the people that are making the personal statements should be the ones to spell out these grievances. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards,</div><div class="">Elvis. <br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 4, 2020, at 0:31, Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
  
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  <div class=""><p class="">Dear Lucilla,</p><p class="">According to the Collins Dictionary [1], "Determine the Outcome"
      - The outcome of an activity, process, or situation is the
      situation that exists at the end of it. <br class="">
    </p><p class="">Clearly, there is no ambiguity. the Recall Committee determines
      whether the Co-Chairs stay or go.<br class="">
    </p><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="">Sunday.<br class="">
    </p><p class="">1.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/determine-the-outcome">https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/determine-the-outcome</a>
      <br class="">
    </p><p class=""><br class="">
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/3/20 2:18 PM, lucilla fornaro
      wrote:<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAKJg62J8Lc9pdmQjVinBPoPGa+2cRZRssPzfRbSTL0jVkF_GFw@mail.gmail.com" class="">
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        <div dir="ltr" class="">
          <div dir="ltr" class="">
            <div dir="ltr" class="">Dear Jaco,
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">I am referring to section 3.5 of the CPM,
                specifically to "<span style="color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif" class="">The
                  recall committee shall investigate the circumstances
                  of the justification for the recall and determine the
                  outcome."</span><span style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif" class=""><font class=""> In my opinion, </font></span>CPM
                does not suggest a clear explanation on what we have to
                consider as the outcome of the appeal committee, whether
                the co-chairs will be removed or if the request will
                advance.</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Regards,</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Lucilla</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br class="">
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno gio 3 dic 2020 alle
          ore 21:51 Jaco Kroon <<a href="mailto:jaco@uls.co.za" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">jaco@uls.co.za</a>> ha scritto:<br class="">
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div class=""><p class="">Hi Lucilla,</p><p class="">1.  I personally never asked any author to withdraw
              anything.<br class="">
              2.  I believe the current wording is perfectly clear; as
              such:<br class="">
              3.  Could you please clarify - by way of reference to the
              CPM text - clarify what doubts (uncertainty, ambiguity) do
              you read in the text as it's written?<br class="">
            </p><p class="">4.  I did state my support that I don't see an emergency
              here and that both the proposal and the recall process
              should follow the existing established processes.<br class="">
            </p><p class="">Kind Regards,<br class="">
              Jaco<br class="">
            </p>
            On 2020/12/03 14:07, lucilla fornaro wrote:<br class="">
            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
              <div dir="ltr" class="">
                <div dir="ltr" class="">
                  <div class="">Dear Jaco,</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">considering the contest, clearly, we are not
                    facing any of the emergencies you mentioned. 
                    Remaining closer to the purpose of the discussion,
                    the current recall process opens the door to several
                    doubts. The incompletion of the call request section
                    is already creating issues and can potentially
                    create unfair situations that in the interest of the
                    community we should try to avoid and fix in advance.
                    The proposal can help us and there are no reasons to
                    ask the author to withdraw it.</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Regards,</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Lucilla</div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br class="">
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno gio 3 dic
                  2020 alle ore 06:16 Jaco Kroon <<a href="mailto:jaco@uls.co.za" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">jaco@uls.co.za</a>> ha
                  scritto:<br class="">
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
                  0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div class=""><p class="">Hi Lucilla,</p><p class="">Please clarify the emergency here?  Will a war
                      break out if this policy doesn't get changed
                      sooner than the normal process?  Will someone
                      die?  What's the emergency here?<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Kind Regards,<br class="">
                      Jaco<br class="">
                    </p><p class="">On 2020/12/02 15:22, lucilla fornaro wrote:</p>
                    <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                      <div dir="ltr" class="">
                        <div dir="ltr" class="">
                          <div style="" class="">Dear Community,</div>
                          <div style="" class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div style="" class="">Section 3.6 of
                            the CPM says: “The process outlined in this
                            document may vary in the case of an
                            emergency. Variance is for use when a
                            one-time waiving of some provision of this
                            document is required”.  </div>
                          <div style="" class="">The author
                            should not withdraw this important proposal
                            for two reasons: firstly, it is valuable,
                            and secondly, if not approved it will
                            automatically expire. </div>
                          <div style="" class="">I believe this
                            is exactly the moment for the chairs to
                            change the process of the PDP, considering
                            that we do find in the case of an emergency.</div>
                          <div style="" class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div style="" class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                          <div style="" class="">Regards Lucilla </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br class="">
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno mer
                          2 dic 2020 alle ore 21:48 Ibeanusi Elvis <<a href="mailto:ibeanusielvis@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">ibeanusielvis@gmail.com</a>>
                          ha scritto:<br class="">
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                          <div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class="">Dear
                            community, 
                            <div class=""><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="">Adding to the ongoing discussion on
                              this mailing list, besides the fact that
                              this Request to Recall the PDWG Co-Chairs
                              is based on personal grievances with the
                              co-chairs and emotions, I don’t see a form
                              of fast tracking this ongoing recall
                              process and like the co-chairs stated, the
                              so-called "promotion or fast-track” is of
                              no benefit to them. They (the co-chairs)
                              just performed their administrative
                              function and in the principle of fairness,
                              openness, and transparency, brought it
                              forward to the RPD community for
                              discussion. Likewise, the personal attack
                              needs to stop, saying that the co-chairs
                              are imitating the behavior of an “AFRICAN
                              DICTATOR” whom wants to do everything they
                              can to stay in power including adjusting
                              the country’s constitution went too far
                              and very disrespectful and an insult to
                              their integrity and personality. Also, a
                              disregard to the long hours and dedication
                              that they have put into the service of
                              this AFRINIC organization. </div>
                            <div class=""><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="">Similarly, proposing a withdrawal of a
                              draft policy proposal is not functional as
                              the CPM 3.4.1 elucidates that first, "<span style="font-size:14px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif" class="">During
                                the development of policy, draft
                                versions of the document are made
                                available for review and comment by
                                publishing them on the AFRINIC website
                                and posting them to the </span><span id="gmail-m_-9071325917702386211gmail-m_3250227765897837290gmail-m_-3018335269061364756gmail-cloak0d51ab8d2a6602c0283affe46f0fb1f3" style="font-size:14px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;box-sizing:border-box" class=""><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(210,114,70);text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a></span><font face="Roboto, sans-serif" color="#757575" class=""><span style="font-size:14px" class=""> mailing list.</span><span style="font-size:14px" class="">”</span><span style="font-size:14px" class=""> </span></font> which
                              is currently happening. Also, the same CPM
                              3.4.1 states that "<span style="color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">A
                                draft policy expires after one calendar
                                year unless it is approved by the
                                AFRINIC Board of Directors as a policy. </span>Hence,
                              the idea of suggesting a withdrawal should
                              end as well as the personal attacks. If
                              you have an personal issues or grievances
                              with the co-chairs, find a way to settle
                              it with them. </div>
                            <div class=""><br class="">
                            </div>
                            <div class="">Regards, </div>
                            <div class="">Elvis. </div>
                            <div class="">
                              <div class="">
                                <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                  <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                      I'm a stickler to rules and
                                      procedures and not interested or
                                      have a vested interest. Therefore
                                      consider my notes below as
                                      advisory to guide your decision as
                                      I do not want to argue for it
                                      against.</div>
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <div class="">Aside from providing a context
                                      you have given in your
                                      earlier email, I must call your
                                      attention to this <span style="color:rgb(32,33,36);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px" class="">Latin
                                        word  <b class="">“no one should be a
                                          judge in their own cause”</b>.
                                        It is one of the cardinal rules
                                        of natural justice that no one
                                        should act as a judge a case in
                                        which they have a personal
                                        (vested) interest.</span>  </div>
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      Secondly, I wish to refer you to
                                      section 3.41. and  3.4.2. of the
                                      CPM as posted below before you
                                      invoke sections 3.6 which has lots
                                      of ambiguity which I have noted in
                                      my several correspondence on this
                                      mailing list. There  is legal
                                      standing of a section of a law or
                                      CMP needs to stand as procedures.</div>
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <div class="">Let me try to clarify with a
                                      little LAW 101 classroom
                                      explanation based on the principle
                                      of antecedent law.  This simply
                                      means <b class="">the Nature and Evolution
                                        of the Rules of Procedure and
                                        Evidence. is a doctrine of
                                        interpretation where a
                                        court  interprets a qualifying
                                        clause to refer to the
                                        immediately preceding words or
                                        phrases.</b><br class="">
                                      In the light of the above, you
                                      must first satisfy the following
                                      in this order BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY
                                      CONCENSUS DECISION :</div>
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <div class="">1: Publish on the website which
                                      has not been done or referred to
                                      in your email (See CMP section
                                      3.4.1 for advice as seen below)</div>
                                    <div class="">2.  The draft policy shall be
                                      available for review for at least
                                      four weeks before the next Public
                                      Policy Meeting. </div>
                                    <div class="">3: <b class=""><i class="">CONDITIONAL Statement
                                          but best practice before any
                                          meeting or consensus decision
                                          is made: </i></b>The Working
                                      Group Chair(s) may request AFRINIC
                                      to provide an analysis (technical,
                                      financial, legal or other), of the
                                      impact of the draft policy
                                      proposal.</div>
                                    <div class="">4.  Each policy proposals must
                                      be place on an agenda for a PUBLIC
                                      MEETING. (This section must be
                                      satisfied before you proceed to
                                      interpret section 3.6)</div>
                                    <div class="">5.  The agenda of the meeting
                                      shall be announced on the Resource
                                      Policy Discussion mailing list at
                                      least two weeks prior to the
                                      meeting. (Are we having another
                                      PPM before the end of this year?)<br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      Please note that my comments are
                                      observations and advisory  to
                                      enrich out understanding of the
                                      CPM and it's interpretation. <br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      Regards</div>
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                      Caleb Ogundele<br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      Extract of CPM Referenced<br class="">
=============================================================================</div>
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                      <h3 class="">3.4.1 Draft Policy Proposal</h3><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px
                                        0px
                                        5px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class="">During
                                        the development of policy, draft
                                        versions of the document are
                                        made available for review and
                                        comment by publishing them on
                                        the AFRINIC website and posting
                                        them to the <span id="gmail-m_-9071325917702386211gmail-m_3250227765897837290gmail-m_-3018335269061364756gmail-cloak0d51ab8d2a6602c0283affe46f0fb1f3" style="box-sizing:border-box" class=""><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(210,114,70);text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a></span> mailing
                                        list. Each draft policy is
                                        assigned a unique identifier by
                                        AFRINIC and the AFRINIC website
                                        shall also contain the version
                                        history and the status of all
                                        proposals.</p><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px
                                        0px
                                        5px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class="">The
                                        draft policy shall be available
                                        for review for at least four
                                        weeks before the next Public
                                        Policy Meeting. The author(s)
                                        shall make the necessary changes
                                        to the draft policy according to
                                        the feedback received. The
                                        Working Group Chair(s) may
                                        request AFRINIC to provide an
                                        analysis (technical, financial,
                                        legal or other), of the impact
                                        of the draft policy proposal.<br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                        <br class="">
                                      </p>
                                      <h3 class="">3.4.2 Public Policy Meeting</h3><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px
                                        0px
                                        5px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class="">The
                                        draft policy is placed on the
                                        agenda of an open public policy
                                        meeting. The agenda of the
                                        meeting shall be announced on
                                        the Resource Policy Discussion
                                        mailing list at least two weeks
                                        prior to the meeting. No change
                                        can be made to a draft policy
                                        within one week of the meeting.
                                        This is so that a stable version
                                        of the draft policy can be
                                        considered at the meeting. </p>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <br class="">
                                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
                                      Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 10:51 AM
                                      Murungi Daniel <<a href="mailto:dmurungi@wia.co.tz" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">dmurungi@wia.co.tz</a>>
                                      wrote:<br class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">+1<br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      > On Dec 2, 2020, at 11:47 AM,
                                      Nishal Goburdhan <<a href="mailto:nishal@controlfreak.co.za" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">nishal@controlfreak.co.za</a>>
                                      wrote:<br class="">
                                      > <br class="">
                                      > On 2 Dec 2020, at 6:29,
                                      ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE wrote:<br class="">
                                      > <br class="">
                                      >> Dear PDWG Members,<br class="">
                                      >> We want to acknowledge
                                      the proposal on Co-Chair Recall
                                      process<br class="">
                                      > <br class="">
                                      > please pause.<br class="">
                                      > <br class="">
                                      > consider that you are asking
                                      this WG if they want to fast track
                                      a proposal that you (the co-chairs
                                      and policy officer) have neither:<br class="">
                                      > #1 - disclosed to this
                                      working group;  sorry, but some
                                      random gmail account posting a
                                      proprietary binary to this list,
                                      is *NOT* a policy submission. 
                                      those of us that do not open
                                      attachments from random  strangers
                                      are waiting for the text version
                                      to be posted to this list (as is
                                      the norm)<br class="">
                                      > <br class="">
                                      > #2 - given an identifier to
                                      yet<br class="">
                                      > <br class="">
                                      > without even knowing the
                                      contents of the PDF, there are
                                      procedural steps involved in
                                      submission that you have not yet
                                      completed.  it’s entirely unclear
                                      to me how you expect people to
                                      assess the value of this proposal
                                      when they have not yet had a
                                      chance to read it.  and without
                                      assessing this value, it’s
                                      inconceivable that you would even
                                      consider fast tracking this.<br class="">
                                      > <br class="">
                                      > please, stick to the process.<br class="">
                                      > <br class="">
                                      > —n.<br class="">
                                      > <br class="">
                                      >
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                                  -- <br class="">
                                  <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                    <div dir="ltr" class=""><b class=""><font size="4" color="#33ccff" class="">Ogundele
                                          Olumuyiwa Caleb</font></b>
                                      <div class=""><font color="#993300" class=""><i class=""><b class=""><a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a></b></i></font></div>
                                      <div class=""><i class=""><b class=""><font color="#666666" class="">234
                                              - 8077377378</font></b></i></div>
                                      <div class=""><i class=""><b class=""><font color="#666666" class="">234
                                              - 07030777969</font></b></i></div>
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