<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Mirriam, <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Of course it is very justifiable to hold anyone and in this case to hold the elected leaders accountable for their failures but the reasons has to be genuine and justifiable reasons. </div><div class="">Nonetheless, as you might have noticed, I do not have any grievances with the leaders but rather the people that are making the personal statements should be the ones to spell out these grievances. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards,</div><div class="">Elvis. <br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 4, 2020, at 0:31, Sunday Folayan <<a href="mailto:sfolayan@skannet.com" class="">sfolayan@skannet.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class=""><p class="">Dear Lucilla,</p><p class="">According to the Collins Dictionary [1], "Determine the Outcome"
- The outcome of an activity, process, or situation is the
situation that exists at the end of it. <br class="">
</p><p class="">Clearly, there is no ambiguity. the Recall Committee determines
whether the Co-Chairs stay or go.<br class="">
</p><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="">Sunday.<br class="">
</p><p class="">1.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/determine-the-outcome">https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/determine-the-outcome</a>
<br class="">
</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/3/20 2:18 PM, lucilla fornaro
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAKJg62J8Lc9pdmQjVinBPoPGa+2cRZRssPzfRbSTL0jVkF_GFw@mail.gmail.com" class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Dear Jaco,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I am referring to section 3.5 of the CPM,
specifically to "<span style="color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif" class="">The
recall committee shall investigate the circumstances
of the justification for the recall and determine the
outcome."</span><span style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif" class=""><font class=""> In my opinion, </font></span>CPM
does not suggest a clear explanation on what we have to
consider as the outcome of the appeal committee, whether
the co-chairs will be removed or if the request will
advance.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Lucilla</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno gio 3 dic 2020 alle
ore 21:51 Jaco Kroon <<a href="mailto:jaco@uls.co.za" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">jaco@uls.co.za</a>> ha scritto:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class=""><p class="">Hi Lucilla,</p><p class="">1. I personally never asked any author to withdraw
anything.<br class="">
2. I believe the current wording is perfectly clear; as
such:<br class="">
3. Could you please clarify - by way of reference to the
CPM text - clarify what doubts (uncertainty, ambiguity) do
you read in the text as it's written?<br class="">
</p><p class="">4. I did state my support that I don't see an emergency
here and that both the proposal and the recall process
should follow the existing established processes.<br class="">
</p><p class="">Kind Regards,<br class="">
Jaco<br class="">
</p>
On 2020/12/03 14:07, lucilla fornaro wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">Dear Jaco,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">considering the contest, clearly, we are not
facing any of the emergencies you mentioned.
Remaining closer to the purpose of the discussion,
the current recall process opens the door to several
doubts. The incompletion of the call request section
is already creating issues and can potentially
create unfair situations that in the interest of the
community we should try to avoid and fix in advance.
The proposal can help us and there are no reasons to
ask the author to withdraw it.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Lucilla</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno gio 3 dic
2020 alle ore 06:16 Jaco Kroon <<a href="mailto:jaco@uls.co.za" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">jaco@uls.co.za</a>> ha
scritto:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class=""><p class="">Hi Lucilla,</p><p class="">Please clarify the emergency here? Will a war
break out if this policy doesn't get changed
sooner than the normal process? Will someone
die? What's the emergency here?<br class="">
<br class="">
Kind Regards,<br class="">
Jaco<br class="">
</p><p class="">On 2020/12/02 15:22, lucilla fornaro wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div style="" class="">Dear Community,</div>
<div style="" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="" class="">Section 3.6 of
the CPM says: “The process outlined in this
document may vary in the case of an
emergency. Variance is for use when a
one-time waiving of some provision of this
document is required”. </div>
<div style="" class="">The author
should not withdraw this important proposal
for two reasons: firstly, it is valuable,
and secondly, if not approved it will
automatically expire. </div>
<div style="" class="">I believe this
is exactly the moment for the chairs to
change the process of the PDP, considering
that we do find in the case of an emergency.</div>
<div style="" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div style="" class="">Regards Lucilla </div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno mer
2 dic 2020 alle ore 21:48 Ibeanusi Elvis <<a href="mailto:ibeanusielvis@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">ibeanusielvis@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class="">Dear
community,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Adding to the ongoing discussion on
this mailing list, besides the fact that
this Request to Recall the PDWG Co-Chairs
is based on personal grievances with the
co-chairs and emotions, I don’t see a form
of fast tracking this ongoing recall
process and like the co-chairs stated, the
so-called "promotion or fast-track” is of
no benefit to them. They (the co-chairs)
just performed their administrative
function and in the principle of fairness,
openness, and transparency, brought it
forward to the RPD community for
discussion. Likewise, the personal attack
needs to stop, saying that the co-chairs
are imitating the behavior of an “AFRICAN
DICTATOR” whom wants to do everything they
can to stay in power including adjusting
the country’s constitution went too far
and very disrespectful and an insult to
their integrity and personality. Also, a
disregard to the long hours and dedication
that they have put into the service of
this AFRINIC organization. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Similarly, proposing a withdrawal of a
draft policy proposal is not functional as
the CPM 3.4.1 elucidates that first, "<span style="font-size:14px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif" class="">During
the development of policy, draft
versions of the document are made
available for review and comment by
publishing them on the AFRINIC website
and posting them to the </span><span id="gmail-m_-9071325917702386211gmail-m_3250227765897837290gmail-m_-3018335269061364756gmail-cloak0d51ab8d2a6602c0283affe46f0fb1f3" style="font-size:14px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;box-sizing:border-box" class=""><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(210,114,70);text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a></span><font face="Roboto, sans-serif" color="#757575" class=""><span style="font-size:14px" class=""> mailing list.</span><span style="font-size:14px" class="">”</span><span style="font-size:14px" class=""> </span></font> which
is currently happening. Also, the same CPM
3.4.1 states that "<span style="color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">A
draft policy expires after one calendar
year unless it is approved by the
AFRINIC Board of Directors as a policy. </span>Hence,
the idea of suggesting a withdrawal should
end as well as the personal attacks. If
you have an personal issues or grievances
with the co-chairs, find a way to settle
it with them. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards, </div>
<div class="">Elvis. </div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
I'm a stickler to rules and
procedures and not interested or
have a vested interest. Therefore
consider my notes below as
advisory to guide your decision as
I do not want to argue for it
against.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Aside from providing a context
you have given in your
earlier email, I must call your
attention to this <span style="color:rgb(32,33,36);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px" class="">Latin
word <b class="">“no one should be a
judge in their own cause”</b>.
It is one of the cardinal rules
of natural justice that no one
should act as a judge a case in
which they have a personal
(vested) interest.</span> </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
Secondly, I wish to refer you to
section 3.41. and 3.4.2. of the
CPM as posted below before you
invoke sections 3.6 which has lots
of ambiguity which I have noted in
my several correspondence on this
mailing list. There is legal
standing of a section of a law or
CMP needs to stand as procedures.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Let me try to clarify with a
little LAW 101 classroom
explanation based on the principle
of antecedent law. This simply
means <b class="">the Nature and Evolution
of the Rules of Procedure and
Evidence. is a doctrine of
interpretation where a
court interprets a qualifying
clause to refer to the
immediately preceding words or
phrases.</b><br class="">
In the light of the above, you
must first satisfy the following
in this order BEFORE YOU MAKE ANY
CONCENSUS DECISION :</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">1: Publish on the website which
has not been done or referred to
in your email (See CMP section
3.4.1 for advice as seen below)</div>
<div class="">2. The draft policy shall be
available for review for at least
four weeks before the next Public
Policy Meeting. </div>
<div class="">3: <b class=""><i class="">CONDITIONAL Statement
but best practice before any
meeting or consensus decision
is made: </i></b>The Working
Group Chair(s) may request AFRINIC
to provide an analysis (technical,
financial, legal or other), of the
impact of the draft policy
proposal.</div>
<div class="">4. Each policy proposals must
be place on an agenda for a PUBLIC
MEETING. (This section must be
satisfied before you proceed to
interpret section 3.6)</div>
<div class="">5. The agenda of the meeting
shall be announced on the Resource
Policy Discussion mailing list at
least two weeks prior to the
meeting. (Are we having another
PPM before the end of this year?)<br class="">
<br class="">
Please note that my comments are
observations and advisory to
enrich out understanding of the
CPM and it's interpretation. <br class="">
<br class="">
Regards</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
Caleb Ogundele<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Extract of CPM Referenced<br class="">
=============================================================================</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<h3 class="">3.4.1 Draft Policy Proposal</h3><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px
0px
5px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class="">During
the development of policy, draft
versions of the document are
made available for review and
comment by publishing them on
the AFRINIC website and posting
them to the <span id="gmail-m_-9071325917702386211gmail-m_3250227765897837290gmail-m_-3018335269061364756gmail-cloak0d51ab8d2a6602c0283affe46f0fb1f3" style="box-sizing:border-box" class=""><a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" style="box-sizing:border-box;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(210,114,70);text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">rpd@afrinic.net</a></span> mailing
list. Each draft policy is
assigned a unique identifier by
AFRINIC and the AFRINIC website
shall also contain the version
history and the status of all
proposals.</p><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px
0px
5px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class="">The
draft policy shall be available
for review for at least four
weeks before the next Public
Policy Meeting. The author(s)
shall make the necessary changes
to the draft policy according to
the feedback received. The
Working Group Chair(s) may
request AFRINIC to provide an
analysis (technical, financial,
legal or other), of the impact
of the draft policy proposal.<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</p>
<h3 class="">3.4.2 Public Policy Meeting</h3><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px
0px
5px;color:rgb(117,117,117);font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class="">The
draft policy is placed on the
agenda of an open public policy
meeting. The agenda of the
meeting shall be announced on
the Resource Policy Discussion
mailing list at least two weeks
prior to the meeting. No change
can be made to a draft policy
within one week of the meeting.
This is so that a stable version
of the draft policy can be
considered at the meeting. </p>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 10:51 AM
Murungi Daniel <<a href="mailto:dmurungi@wia.co.tz" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">dmurungi@wia.co.tz</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">+1<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
> On Dec 2, 2020, at 11:47 AM,
Nishal Goburdhan <<a href="mailto:nishal@controlfreak.co.za" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">nishal@controlfreak.co.za</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> On 2 Dec 2020, at 6:29,
ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE wrote:<br class="">
> <br class="">
>> Dear PDWG Members,<br class="">
>> We want to acknowledge
the proposal on Co-Chair Recall
process<br class="">
> <br class="">
> please pause.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> consider that you are asking
this WG if they want to fast track
a proposal that you (the co-chairs
and policy officer) have neither:<br class="">
> #1 - disclosed to this
working group; sorry, but some
random gmail account posting a
proprietary binary to this list,
is *NOT* a policy submission.
those of us that do not open
attachments from random strangers
are waiting for the text version
to be posted to this list (as is
the norm)<br class="">
> <br class="">
> #2 - given an identifier to
yet<br class="">
> <br class="">
> without even knowing the
contents of the PDF, there are
procedural steps involved in
submission that you have not yet
completed. it’s entirely unclear
to me how you expect people to
assess the value of this proposal
when they have not yet had a
chance to read it. and without
assessing this value, it’s
inconceivable that you would even
consider fast tracking this.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> please, stick to the process.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> —n.<br class="">
> <br class="">
>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
> RPD mailing list<br class="">
> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
RPD mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
-- <br class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class=""><b class=""><font size="4" color="#33ccff" class="">Ogundele
Olumuyiwa Caleb</font></b>
<div class=""><font color="#993300" class=""><i class=""><b class=""><a href="mailto:muyiwacaleb@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">muyiwacaleb@gmail.com</a></b></i></font></div>
<div class=""><i class=""><b class=""><font color="#666666" class="">234
- 8077377378</font></b></i></div>
<div class=""><i class=""><b class=""><font color="#666666" class="">234
- 07030777969</font></b></i></div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
RPD mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
RPD mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset class=""></fieldset>
<pre class="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">RPD mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" class="">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class="">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>