<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Mike, I agree with your summary. I'd also add that people who use
gmail addresses also add a little suspicion unless I actually know
them.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020/10/19 08:36, Mike Silber wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE-cm4J-TfGznStG+WpNUYuSbBZRjSO_Prrer-xpGCSnkr+N5Q@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Amazing that my mail to “Lamiaa” is answered by
“Lucilla” (with a quick response by “Gabi”).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">This is a response to the list, as I see little
point in responding to an identity whose provenance and identity
is still uncertain.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I relish different opinions. For example - my
friend Noah and I disagree on many things. However:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">- I have met him;</div>
<div dir="auto">- I have been on calls with him;</div>
<div dir="auto">- I know what networks he operates;</div>
<div dir="auto">- I know his technical background and experience.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">So when we disagree, I have to afford him the
respect he deserves because I have data. I either understand his
perspective (even though I think it may be wrong) or at least I
understand his motivations.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Through it all - he has worked to earn the respect
of all of us by his commitment to the community and the process.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">However, with you and your echo chamber and
despite the cutesy introductions when I first raised my concern
- I have never met you, never been on a call with you, don’t
know what network you operate or your technical expertise. I
don’t have any inclination of your perspective or motivation.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">As such, it seems that your (collective)
motivation is to manipulate the process towards a particular
objective.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">This is not the first time the mailing list has
been manipulated and I am sure it won’t be the last. Some people
I call (or used to call) friends have used sock puppets to
manipulate process and spew hatred.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I am calling it out here because I think we have a
problem that we have just swept under the rug before - we allow
identities without confirmation to participate.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">For example - ICANN working groups have developed
a “statement of interest” requirement for participation that
tries to filter sock puppets and force disclosure of interest.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I think that the situation in the PDP has become
so toxic that a similar requirement may be necessary.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Mike</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at
04:58, lucilla fornaro <<a
href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear Mike, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let me understand your point of view.</div>
<div>So, agreeing with someone else means belonging to a
“puppet echo chamber” (which is an insult itself!)?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You talk about respect and objectiveness when you
are insinuating the false and lacking respect for
anyone who has a different opinion from you.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is not a private talk at a coffee shop, you
cannot cut out from the conversation people who
disagree with you. You are accusing some members of
pushing a proposal you disagree with and according to
you, this means we belong to a kind of strange
conspiracy gang. If I had a lot of free time I may end
up thinking you are doing exactly the same by
rejecting it. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Luckily, this is not a cult, this Afrinic and
surprise surprise, Afrinic is a welcoming open
community where DIFFERENT OPINIONS are not only
accepted but encouraged. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Members have been consistently asking for more time
and once they’ve received it they KEPT COMPLAINING
because they now want something else. So my question
is, what game are you playing? Because if there is
something suspicious here, it comes from you and those
who are equally confused about what they want. At
least, my ideas are explicit.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think there are enough childish quarrels, if you
are really genuinely interested in Afrinic it is time
to accept that someone may disagree with you.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Lucilla</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno dom 18 ott
2020 alle ore 20:47 Mike Silber <<a
href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="auto">Lamiaa </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks for confirming (yet again) to the
list members that you and several others seem to serve
as an echo chamber for each other and for little other
purpose - other than an attempt to manipulate the PDP.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Objectively there was nothing offensive
or constituting a personal attack in what Fernando
said and attempting to amplify that lie is offensive
to all of us who engage in robust discussion on this
list.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">As for your opinions on the appeal,
frankly they are irrelevant. Hopefully the appeal
committee will be objective and not manipulated by
your echo chamber.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">While I appreciate the co-chairs
extension of the last call period, as others have
pointed out, the extension does not substantively
change the decision against which the appeal has been
lodged.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Mike</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Sitting back and waiting for the flames
from the sock puppet echo chamber </div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 18 Oct
2020 at 12:35, Lamiaa Chnayti <<a
href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div dir="auto">Hello Fernando,</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">First of all, I would like to
report to the chairs your improper behaviour
that consists of personally attacking and
offending Lucilla. This should be taken
seriously and shouldn’t go unnoticed so as to
maintain a fair and sensible discussion on the
list.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I would also like to point out
that now that the chairs have amended their
decision, the appeal has become invalid. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Please start showing a little
respect for what the chairs are doing.
Everything they voluntarily do is for the sake
of this community.</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Regards,</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Lamiaa</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le dim. 18
oct. 2020 à 00:20, Fernando Frediani <<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Do not deceive yourself. There is an
appeal ongoing before any possible
ratification.</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Fernando</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Sat, 17 Oct 2020, 20:12 lucilla
fornaro, <<a
href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>No, what I meant is
that we’ve been
discussing for
weeks, the end of the
last call has been
already announced. </div>
<div>Co-chairs shouldn’t
make any changes to that
decision. The policy
shall now move to
ratification. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Regards,</div>
<div dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Lucilla </div>
<div dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<br style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div
id="m_-5179040884745944380gmail-m_-3729763788720632270m_8089234037182889393m_-6673925173497730325m_8082905143667241501id-e1096319-72f6-42ff-9220-bbd9075edf82">
<hr
style="display:inline-block;width:98%;font-family:-webkit-standard;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div
id="m_-5179040884745944380gmail-m_-3729763788720632270m_8089234037182889393m_-6673925173497730325m_8082905143667241501divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr"><font
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"
face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Da:</b> <a
href="mailto:dc@darwincosta.com"
rel="noreferrer"
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">dc@darwincosta.com</a>
<<a
href="mailto:dc@darwincosta.com"
rel="noreferrer"
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">dc@darwincosta.com</a>><br>
<b
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Inviato:</b>
domenica, ottobre 18, 2020
2:49 AM<br>
<b
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">A:</b>
lucilla fornaro<br>
<b
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b>
ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE; rpd
List<br>
<b
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Oggetto:</b>
Re: [rpd] Reversal of
Consensus on Resource
Transfer Policy
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </div>
</font></div>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<blockquote type="cite">On
17 Oct 2020, at 19:36,
lucilla fornaro <<a
href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Dear Co-chair,
dear community,
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div>I disagree with
this extension of
one week. I don’t
see how this
further week can
do any good to a
discussion that
has already
reached its
purpose.
</div>
<div>It is clear
that the community
members have had
exhaustive time to
discuss the
policy.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
The end of the last
call for this policy
has already been
declared and we
should keep moving
forward from that.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I guess you meant send it back
to discussion? I have
previously asked the Co-chair
to share with the community
facts & figures on how
this proposal have reached
consensus... Until now, we
have not seen nothing on this
regards...
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Luckily there is an
appeal submitted.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Regards,</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Lucilla </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Regards,</div>
<div>Darwin-.</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
</div>
<div
id="m_-5179040884745944380gmail-m_-3729763788720632270m_8089234037182889393m_-6673925173497730325m_8082905143667241501id-36641b2c-2ae1-48a7-9fba-91c6475ea510">
<hr
style="display:inline-block;width:98%;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div
id="m_-5179040884745944380gmail-m_-3729763788720632270m_8089234037182889393m_-6673925173497730325m_8082905143667241501divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr"><font
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"
face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><b
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Da:</b>
ABDULKARIM
OLOYEDE <<a
href="mailto:oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng"
rel="noreferrer" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng</a>><br>
<b
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Inviato:</b>
domenica,
ottobre 18, 2020
1:03 AM<br>
<b
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">A:</b>
rpd List<br>
<b
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Oggetto:</b>
[rpd] Reversal
of Consensus on
Resource
Transfer Policy
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </div>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(29,34,40)">
Dear colleagues,</div>
<div
style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(29,34,40)">
<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(29,34,40)">
Despite our
belief that this
policy has
covered almost
all of the
concerns raised
especially the
major
objections, we
would like to
give the
community more
time to discern
after
considering the
community's
feedback on the
consensus
declared on the
Resource
Transfer Polic. </div>
<div
style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(29,34,40)">
<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(29,34,40)">
We, the
co-chairs, have
changed our
decision and opt
to extend the
last call for
one more week
for prudence's
sake. </div>
<div
style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(29,34,40)">
<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(29,34,40)">
Thank you.</div>
<div
style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(29,34,40)">
<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(29,34,40)">
Co-Chair </div>
<div
style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(29,34,40)">
PDWG</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div><a
href="http://www.unilorin.edu.ng"
style="font-size:1.3em" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Website</a><span
style="font-size:1.3em">,</span><span style="font-size:1.3em"> </span><span
style="font-size:1.3em"><a
href="http://www.unilorin.edu.ng/index.php/bulletin"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Weekly Bulletin</a> <a
href="http://uilugportal.unilorin.edu.ng/" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">UGPortal</a>
<a
href="https://uilpgportal.unilorin.edu.ng/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">PGPortal</a></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>RPD mailing list</span><br>
<span><a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a></span><br>
<span><a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><font
style="font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"
face="georgia, serif">Lamiaa
CHNAYTI</font>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<title></title>
<p>Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za">mje@posix.co.za</a> Tel: <a href="tel:+27826010496">+27.826010496</a><br>
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: <a
href="https://ftth.posix.co.za">https://ftth.posix.co.za</a><br>
<br>
<img moz-do-not-send="false"
src="cid:part26.06A4423C.367059F2@posix.co.za" alt="Posix
Systems" width="250" height="165"><img moz-do-not-send="false"
src="cid:part27.B6D72F9A.785012AE@posix.co.za" alt="VCARD for
MJ Elkins" title="VCARD, Scan me please!" width="164"
height="164"><br>
</p>
</div>
</body>
</html>