<div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">Dear all,</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">First of all, I do not think attacking each other would not lead anywhere. Can we please stop focusing on trying to twist each other's words and hurt each other's feelings and focus on the matter at hand instead? In my opinion, there was no malicious intent behind either Fernando's or Lucilla's or Lamiia's words. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I also think it is unfair to discard the arguments of all the parties you do not agree with as "echo chambers." Some of us share certain views, some of us don't - that is simply the nature of an argument. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">In addition, there is nothing wrong with replying to an email addressed to someone else. This is an open forum and everyone is free to reply and comment on everybody else's posts. I've also gotten replies from people who I was not arguing with initially and I did not see a problem with that. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">An open forum also means that anyone is free to participate from any email address. I, for one, also do not want my official university email to be flooded, so I opted out to create a separate address for my participation in the rpd.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Now let us please take a step back and look at the facts of the matter.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The first fact is that making changes to the policy during the last call is not prohibited by the CPM. And it is in the spirit of the law to make the necessary changes during the last call. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The second fact is that the last call was extended as per the request of the community. Here is one such example:</div><div dir="auto"><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/011634.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/011634.html</a></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Thirdly, the fact that the policy addresses "almost all" concerns does not disqualify it from being on the last call. The policy is moved onto the last call when a rough consensus is achieved. And rough consensus does not imply that everyone must agree. It means that there should be a sense of general agreement as per the determination of the chairs. Which we had.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"> Then the policy is moved to the last call where it is then edited so that a proper consensus could be achieved. Since this have proved to be tenuous journey, it only makes sense that the chairs have extended the last call to make sure that all of the issues were properly addressed. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">And this is what we should focus on: let us try to find a compromise on this issue that can satisfy all of us as much as possible. Let us discuss the policy in question, raise all the concerns that still remain and try to find the best solution for the region</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Best, </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Ekaterina </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 19 Oct 2020, 09:28 Daniel Yakmut via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>I use Gmail, because i don't want to clog my official mailbox
with irrelevances. However, I can't be label suspect.</p>
<p>If you do not know the person, and is of interest to you then
make effort to reach out to the person. Note, there maybe ghost
IDs.</p>
<div>On 19/10/2020 7:58 am, Mark Elkins
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Mike, I agree with your summary. I'd also add that people who
use gmail addresses also add a little suspicion unless I
actually know them.<br>
</p>
<div>On 2020/10/19 08:36, Mike Silber
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">Amazing that my mail to “Lamiaa” is answered by
“Lucilla” (with a quick response by “Gabi”).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">This is a response to the list, as I see little
point in responding to an identity whose provenance and
identity is still uncertain.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I relish different opinions. For example - my
friend Noah and I disagree on many things. However:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">- I have met him;</div>
<div dir="auto">- I have been on calls with him;</div>
<div dir="auto">- I know what networks he operates;</div>
<div dir="auto">- I know his technical background and
experience.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">So when we disagree, I have to afford him the
respect he deserves because I have data. I either understand
his perspective (even though I think it may be wrong) or at
least I understand his motivations.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Through it all - he has worked to earn the
respect of all of us by his commitment to the community and
the process.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">However, with you and your echo chamber and
despite the cutesy introductions when I first raised my
concern - I have never met you, never been on a call with you,
don’t know what network you operate or your technical
expertise. I don’t have any inclination of your perspective or
motivation.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">As such, it seems that your (collective)
motivation is to manipulate the process towards a particular
objective.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">This is not the first time the mailing list has
been manipulated and I am sure it won’t be the last. Some
people I call (or used to call) friends have used sock puppets
to manipulate process and spew hatred.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I am calling it out here because I think we have
a problem that we have just swept under the rug before - we
allow identities without confirmation to participate.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">For example - ICANN working groups have
developed a “statement of interest” requirement for
participation that tries to filter sock puppets and force
disclosure of interest.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I think that the situation in the PDP has become
so toxic that a similar requirement may be necessary.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Mike</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at
04:58, lucilla fornaro <<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear Mike, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let me understand your point of view.</div>
<div>So, agreeing with someone else means belonging to
a “puppet echo chamber” (which is an insult
itself!)?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You talk about respect and objectiveness when you
are insinuating the false and lacking respect for
anyone who has a different opinion from you.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is not a private talk at a coffee shop, you
cannot cut out from the conversation people who
disagree with you. You are accusing some members of
pushing a proposal you disagree with and according
to you, this means we belong to a kind of strange
conspiracy gang. If I had a lot of free time I may
end up thinking you are doing exactly the same by
rejecting it. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Luckily, this is not a cult, this Afrinic and
surprise surprise, Afrinic is a welcoming open
community where DIFFERENT OPINIONS are not only
accepted but encouraged. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Members have been consistently asking for more
time and once they’ve received it they KEPT
COMPLAINING because they now want something else. So
my question is, what game are you playing? Because
if there is something suspicious here, it comes from
you and those who are equally confused about what
they want. At least, my ideas are explicit.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think there are enough childish quarrels, if
you are really genuinely interested in Afrinic it is
time to accept that someone may disagree with you.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Lucilla</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno dom 18 ott
2020 alle ore 20:47 Mike Silber <<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="auto">Lamiaa </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Thanks for confirming (yet again) to
the list members that you and several others seem to
serve as an echo chamber for each other and for
little other purpose - other than an attempt to
manipulate the PDP.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Objectively there was nothing
offensive or constituting a personal attack in what
Fernando said and attempting to amplify that lie is
offensive to all of us who engage in robust
discussion on this list.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">As for your opinions on the appeal,
frankly they are irrelevant. Hopefully the appeal
committee will be objective and not manipulated by
your echo chamber.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">While I appreciate the co-chairs
extension of the last call period, as others have
pointed out, the extension does not substantively
change the decision against which the appeal has
been lodged.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Mike</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Sitting back and waiting for the
flames from the sock puppet echo chamber </div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 18 Oct
2020 at 12:35, Lamiaa Chnayti <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div dir="auto">Hello Fernando,</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">First of all, I would like to
report to the chairs your improper behaviour
that consists of personally attacking and
offending Lucilla. This should be taken
seriously and shouldn’t go unnoticed so as
to maintain a fair and sensible discussion
on the list.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I would also like to point out
that now that the chairs have amended their
decision, the appeal has become invalid. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Please start showing a little
respect for what the chairs are doing.
Everything they voluntarily do is for the
sake of this community.</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Regards,</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Lamiaa</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le dim. 18
oct. 2020 à 00:20, Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Do not deceive yourself. There is
an appeal ongoing before any possible
ratification.</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Fernando</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Sat, 17 Oct 2020, 20:12 lucilla
fornaro, <<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>No, what I meant is
that we’ve been
discussing for
weeks, the end of the
last call has been
already announced. </div>
<div>Co-chairs shouldn’t
make any changes to
that decision. The
policy shall now move
to ratification. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Regards,</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Lucilla </div>
<div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<br style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="m_5419959132365513769m_-8502027442347127873m_-5179040884745944380gmail-m_-3729763788720632270m_8089234037182889393m_-6673925173497730325m_8082905143667241501id-e1096319-72f6-42ff-9220-bbd9075edf82">
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%;font-family:-webkit-standard;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div id="m_5419959132365513769m_-8502027442347127873m_-5179040884745944380gmail-m_-3729763788720632270m_8089234037182889393m_-6673925173497730325m_8082905143667241501divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Da:</b>
<a href="mailto:dc@darwincosta.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target="_blank">dc@darwincosta.com</a>
<<a href="mailto:dc@darwincosta.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target="_blank">dc@darwincosta.com</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Inviato:</b>
domenica, ottobre 18,
2020 2:49 AM<br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">A:</b>
lucilla fornaro<br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Cc:</b>
ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE; rpd
List<br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Oggetto:</b>
Re: [rpd] Reversal of
Consensus on Resource
Transfer Policy
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </div>
</font></div>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<blockquote type="cite">On
17 Oct 2020, at 19:36,
lucilla fornaro <<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Dear Co-chair,
dear community,
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div>I disagree
with this
extension of one
week. I don’t
see how this
further week can
do any good to a
discussion that
has already
reached its
purpose. </div>
<div>It is clear
that the
community
members have had
exhaustive time
to discuss the
policy.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
The end of the
last call for this
policy has already
been declared and
we should keep
moving forward
from that.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I guess you meant send it
back to discussion? I have
previously asked the
Co-chair to share with the
community facts &
figures on how this proposal
have reached consensus...
Until now, we have not seen
nothing on this regards...
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Luckily there is an
appeal submitted.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Regards,</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Lucilla </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Regards,</div>
<div>Darwin-.</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> </div>
<div id="m_5419959132365513769m_-8502027442347127873m_-5179040884745944380gmail-m_-3729763788720632270m_8089234037182889393m_-6673925173497730325m_8082905143667241501id-36641b2c-2ae1-48a7-9fba-91c6475ea510">
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div id="m_5419959132365513769m_-8502027442347127873m_-5179040884745944380gmail-m_-3729763788720632270m_8089234037182889393m_-6673925173497730325m_8082905143667241501divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="Calibri,
sans-serif"><b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Da:</b> ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE <<a href="mailto:oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" target="_blank">oloyede.aa@unilorin.edu.ng</a>><br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Inviato:</b>
domenica,
ottobre 18,
2020 1:03 AM<br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">A:</b>
rpd List<br>
<b style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Oggetto:</b>
[rpd] Reversal
of Consensus
on Resource
Transfer
Policy
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </div>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
Dear
colleagues,</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
Despite our
belief that
this policy
has covered
almost all of
the concerns
raised
especially the
major
objections, we
would like to
give the
community more
time to
discern after
considering
the
community's
feedback on
the consensus
declared on
the Resource
Transfer
Polic. </div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
We, the
co-chairs,
have changed
our decision
and opt to
extend the
last call for
one more week
for prudence's
sake. </div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
Thank you.</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
Co-Chair </div>
<div>
PDWG</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div><a href="http://www.unilorin.edu.ng" style="font-size:1.3em" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Website</a><span style="font-size:1.3em">,</span><span style="font-size:1.3em"> </span><span style="font-size:1.3em"><a href="http://www.unilorin.edu.ng/index.php/bulletin" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Weekly Bulletin</a> <a href="http://uilugportal.unilorin.edu.ng/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">UGPortal</a> <a href="https://uilpgportal.unilorin.edu.ng/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">PGPortal</a></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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<span><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a></span><br>
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-family:georgia,serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)" face="georgia, serif">Lamiaa
CHNAYTI</font>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<div>-- <br>
<p>Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa<br>
<a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">mje@posix.co.za</a>
Tel: <a href="tel:+27826010496" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">+27.826010496</a><br>
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