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<p>Hi,<br>
<br>
Based on your statement, then the change that has been introduced
should be removed and handled in a separate policy change.</p>
<p>But a change is required for reciprocity with other RIRs. What
we're saying and asking is to please maintain the status quo for
intra-RIR (within region) and inbound transfers from other RIRs,
and ONLY relax the requirement that legacy space loses legacy
status on OUTBOUND from the region transfers.<br>
<br>
This is the MINIMUM change required for reciprocity, and thus why
we're requesting you to please amend the change to exactly this.
If you want to change the existing policy to allow legacy
transfers in-region to maintain legacy status, then, as per your
own statement below, that should be a whole different discussion
and therefore a completely separate policy.<br>
<br>
Kind Regards,<br>
Jaco<br>
</p>
On 2020/10/10 10:43, Ekaterina Kalugina wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAHS7WUDpiCeS43RMXuY7SP=M3MvZHQt81St9C6auEh2nYsKW1Q@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Dear all,
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div dir="auto">I am fully with Mike and Elvis on this one.
The legacy issue of compatibility has already been addressed
by the authors of the policy. In addition, the issue of
legacy should be a subject of a whole different discussion
and therefore a completely separate policy. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Also, Fernando, I think Mark is right - you
are coming across as ad hominem. In addition, there have
been multiple instances that I've seen in this list as well
as experienced personally, when you make personal attacks on
the speaker instead of their argument. This is not a way to
go in a civilized discussion and I would kindly ask you to
abstain from such behavior in the future.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Best, </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Ekaterina </div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 07:28
Ibeanusi Elvis <<a href="mailto:ibeanusielvis@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">ibeanusielvis@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">Dear community, </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I concur with the ideology that the issue of
legacy space has been addressed by the recently version of
the proposal being submitted by Taiwo and Anthony. Which was
conducted during the last call period whereby editorial
changes are allowed in accordance with the CPM.
Additionally, just as Mike stated, since ARIN allows the
same policy with RIPE, it won’t be a problem for AFRINIC and
also, Madhvi never stated that AFRINIC had an issue of
reciprocity with ARIN. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Let’s try and move forward, by doing justice
to this needed two-way Inter-RIR Resource Transfer Policy
for the greater good of the African region. +Mike. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Elvis. </div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 10 Oct 2020 at
04:41, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:12pt"></span></span><span><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi Mike,</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">LACNIC
also has the same: Legacy is lost after
incoming transfers and it is a good protection
measure for the region. This is why both
LACNIC and AFRINIC communities (and I was not
involved in that, so not just my personal
view), had it already when they only had
intra-RIR.</span></span><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"
lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"
lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El
9/10/20 19:39, "Mike Burns" <<a
href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@iptrading.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hi
Jordi,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I
don’t think we are saying the same thing, except
we are saying the issue of legacy holders and fees
is a long and DIFFERENT discussion.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">It’s
possible that I did miss the text, but the most
recent post from AFRINIC regarding reciprocity
didn’t mention any ARIN problem with what we are
discussing here, namely the retention of legacy
status after an inter-regional transfer. Other
issues regarding legacy space seem to have been
adequately addressed by the most recent version of
the proposal. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Since
ARIN allows this with RIPE, I doubt they have a
problem with AFRINIC.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Why
can’t AFRINIC have the same policy as RIPE in this
regard?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Can
you re-state your objection to the retention of
legacy status after a receipt of legacy addresses
into AFRINIC from another region?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I
understand your objection to legacy space overall,
but if you could phrase your objection without
reference to that larger issue, it may help.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Because
settling that larger issue is outside the scope of
this proposal.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Regards,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Mike</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid none
none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0cm
0cm;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><b>From:</b>
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 09, 2020 12:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'rpd List' <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Transfer Policy
Proposal v.3.docx</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">We are saying the same,
see 2 above.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">However, that’s wrong,
because if both parties are legacy holders, they
aren’t bound to policies, so they should be
allowed to change the registration data.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">After all, legacy
holders, in my opinion, should not exist. But
that's a very long and different discussion.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">Regarding to the
reciprocity from other RIRs, I guess you missed
reading all the text … it talks about that. Is
not a problem for APNIC, but it is for ARIN.
Anyway, it looks like it is partial feedback, I
think we should wait for a final assessment.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">El
9/10/20 18:12, "Mike Burns" <<a
href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@iptrading.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Hi
Jordi,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Your
position is simply wrong, and it’s not limited to
ARIN.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Legacy
holders cannot transfer addresses in any RIR but
RIPE without adhering to RIR policy.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">I am
defining a transfer as a change in registration.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Of
course there are off-the-books transfers, this
policy has nothing to say about them, nor are they
recognized by any RIR.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Now
that your understanding about legacy transfers
has been corrected, does it change your objection
at all?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">The
recent reports from other RIRs don’t mention the
legacy issue in terms of reviewing AFRNIC’s
inter-regional proposal, I will note.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Regards,<br>
Mike</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid none
none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0cm
0cm;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><b>From:</b>
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 09, 2020 11:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Transfer Policy
Proposal v.3.docx</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">Hi Mike,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">The ARIN case, is a bit
different, I know, it is a very long history …</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">I stand on my position:
Legacy holders don’t need any policy to transfer
resources if both of them haven’t signed any RIR
RSA (or equivalent). The problem is:</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:106.8pt"><span>1)<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""> </span></span><span
style="font-size:12pt">Often the receiver of the
transfer has signed in a RIR, so they “can’t
receive the legacy resources because they will
be against the policies”.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:106.8pt"><span>2)<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""> </span></span><span
style="font-size:12pt">The RIR may not agree to
change the registration data (if the transfer is
among 2 legacy holders). </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">1 above is
acceptable, but 2 is not.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">El
9/10/20 16:45, "Mike Burns" <<a
href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@iptrading.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><b> </b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><b>Hi
Jordi,</b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">[Jordi] I think the staff
got it wrong. In my opinion, unless I’m missing
right now other special documents in any RIR,
none, of the RIRs can avoid legacy resources to
be transferred, because they aren’t not part of
the RIR system, we like it or not. Unless any of
the parties (source or destination) has signed
the RSA or an equivalent document binding them
to the relevant region policies. I guess that if
the transfer is among “2 legacy holders” even if
in different RIRs, the RIRs must allow the
update of the whois, etc. This is one of the
issues. The RIRs need to do all kind of services
for the legacy holders, *<b>for free</b>* and
the cost is covered by the membership. Not fair.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Jordi,
you are not correct here. Believe me, I was
attempting to transfer legacy resources at ARIN
before there was any transfer policy and it was
absolutely prohibited. Likewise after the ARIN
transfer policy was implemented, I attempted a
legacy transfer without a needs test and was
refused. The world’s first official transfer was
all legacy space from Nortel to Microsoft and ARIN
would not allow it unless it followed policy. RIPE
has had a legacy transfer ability all along, as
far as I know. In APNIC you could not transfer
legacy space, nor at LACNIC. In fact, only at RIPE
was this allowed. Your feelings of unfairness are
just your feelings, they are not facts. Legacy
holders could claim to be progenitors of an
Internet that has benefitted humanity greatly, and
any grandfathered services are a small and fair
repayment of their early activity. Point is, it’s
an opinion and not a fact that should be dealt
with in a transfer policy.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">You
are holding up a policy based on fairness to prior
transferrers yet you can’t identify any party who
has suffered this unfairness?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Fees
avoided by legacy status are a very small issue
here, not something that should delay this
important policy.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">I
have brokered many inter-regional ARIN legacy
transfers to RIPE, retaining legacy status. So why
do you think the AFRINIC policy would somehow not
be compliant with other RIRs?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">You
don’t seem to understand ARIN’s legacy policy at
least. ARIN does not regard legacy holders as
outside of policy compliance. In point of fact,
ARIN has declared shared rights to Whois
registration between ARIN and legacy holders, and
ARIN will has never allowed a legacy transfer
outside of policy. ARIN controls the registry
according to its policies, and legacy holders must
comply, although ARIN does continue to provide
various legacy services for free. However, ARIN
will not provide some services like RPKI unless
legacy holders sign an RSA.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Regards,<br>
Mike</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">Since
then we have learned about malfeasance of AFRINIC
staff that may have played a part in these old
things.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">So
exactly how many of these transfers happened where
legacy space lost its status at AFRINIC, the
fairness of which concerns you so?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">[Jordi] Doesn’t matter in
my opinion. In terms of being fair, even if it
was just one case, if we remove that from the
CPM, the policy should provide a way to resolve
that, may be giving them the chance to recover
the fees and even return the status to legacy.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">Legacy
holders have the same underlying relationship at
each RIR, and as I pointed out there is no single
manner in which legacy addresses are treated after
a transfer at other RIRs, so what consistency are
you trying to achieve regarding inter-regional
transfer policy reciprocity?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">[Jordi] They aren’t bound
to the CPM, they don’t pay any fees.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">Your
declaration that legacy holders aren’t bound to
the CPM and that is “not good” is a value
judgement that shouldn’t be expressed in policy
regarding transfers. If you want to change the
status of the legacy relationship with AFRINIC, it
should be external to the needed transfer policy.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">[Jordi] There are 2
different things. 1) Removing in the transfers a
special case for legacy that has been there
already, 2) Resolving, if we can get an
agreement on that, how they pay for the cost of
the services and even better if they need to
sing the RSA and be bound to policies to keep
getting the services. 1, is there already, we
should not remove that. 2 is a new thing, we
should agree on the way forward for that – not
an easy task I guess.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">I
agree that AFRINIC should only have the ability to
retain legacy status for addresses received into
AFRINIC and not those sent out of AFRINIC to other
RIRs, whose policy should apply to addresses
received there.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">Regards,<br>
Mike</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid none
none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0cm
0cm;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><b>From:</b>
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 09, 2020 4:22 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Transfer Policy
Proposal v.3.docx</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="ES-TRAD">Hi Mike,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="ES-TRAD"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="ES-TRAD">Below,
in-line.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"
lang="ES-TRAD"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="ES-TRAD"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="ES-TRAD"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">El
7/10/20 17:22, "Mike Burns" <<a
href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@iptrading.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Hi
Jordi,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">My
distilled points remain:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p style="margin-left:213pt"><span>1.<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""> </span></span>The
inter-regional transfer policy is way more
important than the 12 month wait, because the pool
will be drained soon with barely any refill
likely.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">[Jordi] Remember that the
pool may drain, but there may be resources
recovered or returned, either directly at
AFRINIC or from IANA, so there must be caution
about possible “replenishments”.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:213pt"><span>2.<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""> </span></span>The 12
month wait for addresses received directly from
AFRINIC makes sense and I support that.</p>
<p style="margin-left:213pt"><span>3.<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""> </span></span>The
legacy issue is immaterial.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">[Jordi] The problem is
that legacy holders aren’t bound to CPM which is
not good. And because we have that now in the
existing policy, removing it creates a very
unfair situation with the previous transfers.
So, if we want to remove that, we should,
somehow, compensate to them as part of the
policy, and that’s much more complex that
keeping the non-legacy status for Intra-RIR and
incoming Inter-RIR. This way we keep the
reciprocity as well with other RIRs, because we
only impose the “non-legacy after a transfer” if
it happens in the region.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Regards,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Mike</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid none
none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0cm
0cm;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><b>From:</b>
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 02, 2020 4:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Transfer Policy
Proposal v.3.docx</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span><span
style="font-size:12pt">Hi Mike,</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">Sorry the late response …
a bit “too much” busy the last few weeks.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">Even if the possible
pillaging is small, we shall remember that:</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:213pt"><span>1)<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""> </span></span><span
style="font-size:12pt">Even just /22-/24 are
needed for new operators or businesses to come
into the Internet and be able to support
IPv6-only networks with IPv4aaS. They need a
small pool of IPv4 addresses. I’m not so much
worried about existing ISPs, that have already
much more space than that, because they could
turn some of their existing IPv4 addresses from
customers CPEs, into IPv6-only and keep growing
or even go to the market and transfer addresses
– they have resources (a new business usually
don’t have so much financial resources and
anything they can save matters).</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:213pt"><span>2)<span
style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times
New Roman""> </span></span><span
style="font-size:12pt">Even if the AFRINIC pool
is emptied, new addresses are coming from
recovery, either via IANA or AFRINIC itself.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">So, as much
as we try to avoid bad practices, as much we
lower costs for AFRINIC and the membership.
Costs is not just about money and human
rerouces, but also about time that the
addresses can be reused instead of being
reclaimed and quaranteened afterwards.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">I was not
alone in LACNIC, in fact, I was not
participating in that too much compared with
IPv6 proposals at that time. In fact, you
should also recognize that when I introduced
the Inter-RIR proposals (I presented 2 of
them: legacy-only and comprehensive), in the
first version, the community reached consensus
and recognized that a) it was the right time,
b) my recommendation for a comprehensive
proposal (versus a legacy only) reciprocal
with all RIRs, what the right one.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Note the
timing: LACNIC finally exhaused the pool last
August. One month before the Inter-RIR
proposal (which reached consensus one year
before) was implemented (as said, it takes 1
year to implement such policy). I didn’t had
the crystal ball, however, clearly we did in
the right timing. I insist in “we”. I was just
the author, the “community instrument”, but
all this is always a community thing.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">El
28/9/20 20:04, "Mike Burns" <<a
href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">mike@iptrading.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">Hello
list,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">I
would like to provide some input from experience.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">I
brokered the world’s first inter-regional transfer
back in 2012.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">Since
then we’ve brokered many hundreds of
inter-regional transfers.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">I
also wrote the ARIN transfer policy which allowed
for it to happen.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">A
significant policy change I made was the addition
of a 12 month waiting period before any
address-seller could access the remaining ARIN
free pool.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">Because
at that point in time, although an inter-regional
transfer policy was passed and ready to be
implemented at ARIN, it was being blocked due to a
particular concern. Which was that somebody in
APNIC would demonstrate a need for addresses,
which would be met by a willing ARIN seller. The
APNIC buyer could immediately resell those
addresses to somebody else in APNIC, and restore
the buyer’s justified need. The ARIN seller,
having sold his addresses, is now in need and
could access the ARIN free pool to replenish.
This action could be repeated by a pair of willing
participants in APNIC and ARIN to effectively
drain the remaining ARIN free pool. Yes it’s
“fraud” but it was within policies at both RIRs.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">This
was the purpose of the 12 month waiting period on
sellers—to prevent them from pillaging the
remaining free pool. The situation is not exactly
the same here at AFRINIC, but I think if the
intent of the waiting period is to prevent sellers
from acquiring addresses from AFRINIC in order to
sell them, I support that. The limit should be on
addresses acquired directly from AFRINIC, though,
and not those purchased on the market, which I
believe should be re-sellable without limitations
in order to meet the varying business needs of
market participants.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">I
doubt there will be anything left to pillage by
the time this policy is implemented, but we should
all be against the idea of a company acquiring
addresses from AFRINIC by demonstrating need for
them, only to turn around and sell them on the
market. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">Legacy
addresses still provide the bulk of transfer
sources. We don’t find them to be more attractive
for most buyers because the benefits attached to
legacy addresses are few, and the problems
growing. The benefits are no RIR fees and no
resale limits for RIPE legacy addresses. The
problems are difficulties implementing RPKI on
legacy space. The legacy issue is a side-issue,
but I believe retaining legacy status after an
inter-regional transfer INTO AFRINIC will
incentivize some transfers. We know that buyers
who prefer legacy space register that space in
RIPE, and possibly those buyers would also look
into AFRINIC registration should it be possible to
retain legacy status.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">I
support the policy as written.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">I
would also support it with a 12-month wait because
this will soon be moot.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">I
would also support it without the legacy status
retention because this is a mild benefit at best.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">Just
get it done. The delays at LACNIC stretched on for
years, with Inter-regional policy proposals being
shot down over and over, more than once with the
help of Jordi! But Jordi has seen the value of
inter-regional transfers and the importance of a
global market, and it should be clear to everybody
that AFRINIC is now the only region placed outside
that market. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt">Regards,<br>
Mike Burns</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:212.4pt"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border-style:solid none
none;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0cm
0cm;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><b>From:</b>
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 28, 2020 4:38
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Transfer Policy
Proposal v.3.docx</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt">Responding to several
emails at once …</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">I don’t
agree with Fernando in the rush, I think is
urgent to do something, but if we fail in the
last call, it is just fine *<b>if</b>* the
board agree to either make their own policy
(according to the bylaws), or even better,
make sure to have a focussed meeting on
December (if this fails they still can do a
policy). Obviously it is clear that I prefer
that the community resolve it, but we can’t
just wait anymore.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">The
economies are different, but basically they
are different in the matter of the delay in
what it happens, so yes, somehow LACNIC
survived, and in part this was due to
transfers under the table, which is a terrible
thing to happen.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">The
Intra-RIR transfers will not resolve the
problem, why, because operators and business
in AFRICA are growing, and very few are moving
to IPv6-only with IPv4aaS, so it is
objectibely impossible that exisitng operators
don’t need anymore IPv4 addresses and transfer
them to new ones!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Now,
regarding the point on “we can get this policy
working” and then resolve the issues with
another proposal … I will love to believe in
that, but I’m every day more and more
convinced that this will not happen. If we
don’t get it right (or almost right on the
first shot), we will not agree in 1 year to
resolve it. I will love to be wrong!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">The problem
I see with this proposal is that there are key
points that make it impossible to really work.
We can’t enforce a non-existing and new
template to other RIRs, we can’t enforce the
source to call to the destination RIR and
follow those policies, we can enforce a
procedure that is telling AFRINIC how to do
the things BUT we can’t enforcie the other
RIRs to do the same. There are already 4 other
RIRs which have agreed on how to do this, they
have adjusted their systems one after the
other to follow the first one (because it was
a good procedure and was working). Is all
about internal coordination systems among
RIRs, which the policy doesn’t need to stated.
I will agree that this is needed in a policy
if we want to ask AFRINIC do to some specific
steps which are only binding AFRINIC, but not
other RIRs (I’m speaking here in general, not
just for this policy).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Let’s say
in another way. In any policy, if we let a RIR
to decide about operational details and they
fail, or it can be improved and they don’t do,
then we, as a community, have the right to
tell them “do this way”. Otherwise, is better
that operational details are handled by the
RIR.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Please,
read my points in:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/011429.html"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:12pt">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/011429.html</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/011430.html"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:12pt">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/011430.html</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Those
points aren’t issues that I think are wrong in
terms of my “subjective view” on what should
be an Inter-RIR policy (such as the hold-time
and legacy when incoming). Those are objective
aspects of the proposal that will avoid it to
fly. It will require the other 4 RIRs to have
*<b>new</b>* policies to comply with that. Do
you really think this will happen, and in how
much time? I don’t think adjusting those
points change the authors and community
intend, they are just required clarifications.
The staff impact analysis already mention many
of those.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Will love
if the authors confirm if they will agree with
those points, or otherwise, state one by one,
why not.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">And one
more time, I think we all understand the
problem statement. We should not base our
debate on that. The 3 proposals are looking at
the same and in that context, because the
problem statement doesn’t go to the CPM is
somehow irrelevant.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:179.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:214.8pt">El
28/9/20 4:15, "lucilla fornaro" <<a
href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span
style="color:black">dear all,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span
style="color:black">Without being
catastrophic, I believe that the
activities for which the African economy
requires resources are mostly different
from Latin America, and differently
should be managed.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span
style="color:black">We cannot predict
when it will happen, and this should be
the main reason to solve the problem now
that we have time to manage it properly.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span
style="color:black">The resource
transfer policy proposed by Anthony and
Taiwo aims to build a stable and
effective resources management system
for the Afrinic service region. If we
start working for the resource problem
now, no matter of issues that will
potentially come up (like with any other
policy), there will be space to improve
them in the future.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span
style="color:black">regards,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span
style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span
style="color:black">Lucilla </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:214.8pt">Il
giorno lun 28 set 2020 alle ore 10:02 Fernando
Frediani <<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt
4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<p style="margin-left:214.8pt">There is no
"information" between quotes. If you don't
believe in it check on LACNIC website on
your own.</p>
<p style="margin-left:214.8pt">What a terrible
scenario is painted here where it could be
"terrible" not having a Inter-RIR transfer
policy as soon as possible.<br>
There is still IP space at a lower pace and
there are internal transfers. Clearly a
Inter-RIR transfer can wait a few more
months in order to get it right rather than
rush and get a bad policy. Co-Chairs
deciding "the region needs a transfer
policy" shows there is some rush in it that
can be delayed if they re-think and bring it
back to discussion to try to really find a
rough consensus which is far form existing
right now.</p>
<p style="margin-left:214.8pt">It is not
correct this proposal "works very well".
There are serious doubts, lacks confirmation
from staff and other RIRs and there has been
a very serious change in the very last
minute not giving anyone else chance to
discuss. So clearly this proposal is far
from ready to reach consensus.</p>
<p style="margin-left:214.8pt">Fernando</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">On 26/09/2020
01:53, Ibeanusi Elvis wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt
4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">@Fernando, </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">If you are
said you never mentioned not to do
anything, what then are you implying by
saying that “It took LACNIC 3years and
6months before they ran out completely”.
So we should wait for ours to almost run
out and drag the process along before we
do something about it? This scenario is
not as terrible? Rethink and review the
scenario again, judging by the
“information” you gave to us using
LACNIC, it might not have been bad or
terrible for them, but it might be for
us. They might have survived but we
might not. Put that into consideration
as well. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Also, the
Resource Transfer Policy proposed by
Anthony and Taiwo works very well and
there is no rush into anything. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">The outcome
might not be the same for everyone. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt
4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:214.8pt">Elvis</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Sent from
my iPhone</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:214.8pt">On
Sep 26, 2020, at 13:03, Fernando
Frediani <a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a>
wrote:</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt
4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
<p style="margin-left:214.8pt">I never
mentioned "not do to anything", just
to get the things right rather than
rush,even if it takes a couple of
more months.<br>
It is much worst to get a bad policy
than have none. The examples I put
was to show that this scenario is
not as terrible as some people are
putting as almost if the internet
was going to stop work if this
policy doesn't advance.</p>
<p style="margin-left:214.8pt">Even if
it takes a couple more of months to
get that things right and out of
this mess it will not be a big deal
at all for the region.<br>
It's not true this proposal works.
It still lacks confirmations
specially from other RIRs.<br>
"Many more years" is of course an
exaggeration on your side and we are
talking about months rather than
years which surely will not hurt.</p>
<p style="margin-left:214.8pt">The
legacy stuff is currently like this:
it loses its status, it is like this
in other places as well which shows
this is the obvious thing to keep.
This was never mentioned in the
discussion of this proposal for
months and changed at the very last
minute which gives no chance to
others to equally oppose. If there
is something to be discussed in
another proposal is if the current
status should change or not, not
what is being trying to be done at
rush.</p>
<p style="margin-left:214.8pt">There
is no "forcing them to lose their
legacy status". Whoever sell them
don't care other than the money they
receive. Whoever receives is only
interested in the usage of the
resources. What is being said about
this is not correct how things
really are in practical.</p>
<p style="margin-left:214.8pt">Fernando</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">On
26/09/2020 00:47, Ibeanusi Elvis
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt
4.8pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Dear
Fernando, </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">"When
LACNIC transitioned from Phase 2
to Phase 3 of the exhaustion
phases which is very similar to
what just happened to AfriNic
Phase 2, it took exactly <b>3
years and 6 months</b> for it
to be completely empty”. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">According
to what you are insinuating, it
is preferable not to do anything
about the resources which are
still going to exhaust. Thats
makes no sense, it will be
better if preparations are made
prior to the entire exhaustion
of the resources. LACNIC might
have lasted 3 years and 6months
before it completely emptied
that does not mean we should
take the same route as them, you
learn from others not entirely
copy their system or mode of
handling things.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Additionally,
“good or not organisation
survived, found their way to
work with this new scenario now
there is a proper and well
discussed proposal that works
well for everybody and allow in
and out transfer from ALL other
RIRs”</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">The
fact that the organisation
survived does not 100% imply
that if the same system of
waiting till everything ends
entirely is applied, AFRINIC
will survive. It is best to take
early necessary precautions and
not wait till when we are in a
desperate and maybe unsurvivable
state before we do something.
Also, this proposal is well
detailed and works. Waiting for
many more years and years of
discussion is just compounding
the staffs of the AFRINIC
organisation and the community
with excessive work as well. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Regarding
the legacy resource holders, it
is better to have a dedicated
legacy proposal for them and
work with them not forcing them
to lose their legacy status. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Elvis</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none
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6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt
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<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt
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<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Consider
that LACNIC has a much
higher demand than
AfriNic and during most
of these 3 years it
survived without a
Inter-RIR policy that
was discussed for quiet
a while before it
reached consensus, plus
the time it took for it
to be implemented by
staff which happened
just recently in middle
of this year.On Sep 26,
2020, at 11:39, Fernando
Frediani <<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt
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<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p
style="margin-left:214.8pt">A
couple of information
for those who are
scary about "the pool
be empty shortly".</p>
<p
style="margin-left:214.8pt">When
LACNIC transitioned
from Phase 2 to Phase
3 of the exhaustion
phases which is very
similar to what just
happened to AfriNic
Phase 2, it took
exactly <b>3 years
and 6 months</b> for
it to be completely
empty. <br>
Consider that LACNIC
has a much higher
demand than AfriNic
and during most of
these 3 years it
survived without a
Inter-RIR policy that
was discussed for
quiet a while before
it reached consensus,
plus the time it took
for it to be
implemented by staff
which happened just
recently in middle of
this year.</p>
<p
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Good
or not organizations
survived, found their
way to work with this
new scenario e now
there is a proper and
well discussed
proposal that work
well for everybody and
allow in and out
transfer from ALL
other RIRs. And by the
way legacy resources
lose its status like
is expected. <br>
And by the way, there
is absolutely no
"fight" with legacy
resource holders, not
at all. They don't
care what will happen
when they sell their
resources on sold.
Whoever is buying are
not really much
interested in this
status, but in
acquiring them for
their usage and that's
it.</p>
<p
style="margin-left:214.8pt">AfriNic
can take some more
time, specially in the
current uncertainty
scenario to get a
proper and better
discussed proposal
that will in fact be
reciprocal to all
other RIRs and benefit
the region to keep
going after the pool
is completely empty
which still takes some
time.</p>
<p
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Fernando</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">On
25/09/2020 22:08,
lucilla fornaro
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt
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<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Dear all,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Accepting this policy implies that AFRINIC
will develop a
way to get
even more
resources to
satisfy and
push the
demand of the
developing
market. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">We often talked about smoother business (why
the community
is so scared
about this
word?)
operations,
the policy
does not
facilitate any
fraud. All
resources are
allocated and
transferred in
the base of a
proven need.
It is an
expensive
process, and
it is
reasonable to
think that no
one would
operate a
fraud that
causes loss
instead of
benefits.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Yes, shortly the pool will be empty, but the
policy
proposes a way
to fight it
and promote
access to
further
resources
before it's
too late.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">regards,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Lucilla</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none
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<div>
<blockquote
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<div>
<blockquote
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote
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<div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Il giorno sab 26 set 2020 alle ore 09:49
Ibeanusi Elvis
<<a
href="mailto:ibeanusielvis@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">ibeanusielvis@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-style:none none none
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<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Dear Marcus, Dear Community, </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">I do not concur with your analogy and
accusations on
the proposal
or policy
written by
Anthony
Ikechukwu Ubah
and Taiwo
Oyewande
called
“Resource
Transfer
Policy” as
being a
hindrance to
the smooth
operation of
business, is
entirely
false. The
major
intention of
this policy is
to support and
boost
businesses i
Africa not to
hinder the
operation of
business.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Likewise, the policy is not based on a fake
problem of the
African
region. This
is baseless
accusation and
a wrong
self-interpretation
of what
factual
intentions of
the Resource
Transfer
Policy,
Anthony and
Taiwo should
be appreciated
for pointing
out this
issue. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">On the other hand, "<i><span
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Basically,
the Resource
Transfer
Policy is
intended to
take Internet
Resources on
one region to
the other. We
all know that
Africa is at
its developing
stage and
needs more
internet
resources to
support its
developmental
process.
Accepting this
policy means
that the
little
resources left
in our region
will be taken
away,
especially
when we don’t
have the
mechanism in
place to
enforce the
auditing of
the use of the
allocated
resources.”</span></i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><i><span
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">The
purpose of
this policy is
to support
a “TWO-WAY
INTER-RIR
POLICY” which
implies that
AFRINIC can
receive and
transfer
resources.
With the
exhaustion of
the IPv4, the
adoption of
this policy
will do a
greater good
to the
African continent
as it supports
the
circulation of
resources into
and out of all
the RIRs </span></i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><i><span
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Best, </span></i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><i><span
style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Elvis</span></i></p>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">On Sep 26, 2020, at 02:24, Taiwo Oyewande
<<a
href="mailto:taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
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class="MsoNormal"
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="ES">
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<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Hi all, </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Discussing a problem statement that will not
be implemented
in the CPM is
not really
taking us
forward. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">There is an obvious war against the co
chairs for
doing a job
that the
community
mandated them
to do by the
status of
their
election. The
co-chairs
discussed each
points raised
with the
various
authors and
tried to see
if all the
points were
duly addressed
before making
their
decisions. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">I saw a false and misleading statement about
the cochairs
trying to get
the authors of
2 of the 3
related
policies
against the
authors of the
3rd policy. Is
this what
members of
this working
group has
turned to?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Trying to create a bad name for another
member using
scenarios that
never
occurred. I
think that is
the height of
desperation
and such
defamation of
character
should not be
encouraged on
this list</p>
</div>
</div>
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<p
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<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt">Taiwo</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
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<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:214.8pt">On 25
Sep 2020, at
14:17, Marcus
K. G. Adomey
<<a
href="mailto:madomey@hotmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">madomey@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</blockquote>
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<div>
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<div>
<p
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<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">Dear all, </span></p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">The Policy
“Resource
Transfer
Policy”
(AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT01)
proposed by
Anthony
Ikechukwu Ubah
and Taiwo
Oyewande is
based on a
fake problem
for our
region.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">(1) “The
current policy
fails to
support a
two-way
Inter-RIR
policy” – And
so what? This
was an
intra-RIR
transfer
policy, not
meant to be
Inter-RIR</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">(2) “there by
hindering
smooth
business
operation”</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">Can the authors
of the policy
show how the
current
situation is
“hindering
smooth
business
operation?”</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">Further, they
should tell us
what they mean
by “smooth
business
operation”.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">(3)
“development
and growth in
the region”</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">Can the authors
of the policy
prove that the
current status
is hindering
“development
and growth in
the region”?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">It is clear
that the
authors of the
policy have
used
unsubstantiated
claims to
buttress the
need for this
policy.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">Basically, the
Resource
Transfer
Policy is
intended to
take Internet
Resources on
one region to
the other. We
all know that
Africa is at
its developing
stage and
needs more
internet
resources to
support its
developmental
process.
Accepting this
policy means
that the
little
resources left
in our region
will be taken
away,
especially
when we don’t
have the
mechanism in
place to
enforce the
auditing of
the use of the
allocated
resources.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">Moreover, any
unmanaged
inter-RIR
transfer
policy will
weaken the
development of
the Internet
in the region
as we have no
control over
this global
market which
never played
in our favor.
It may also
affect AFRINIC
operations.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">Recent findings
discussed on
this list show
how
transferred
resources are
being used.
The global
community is
yet to discuss
the impact on
transfer. I am
more concerned
for our
region.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">Reconsider your
decision and
let us discuss
the best
approach to
engage the
Region into
the global
resources
transfer
world.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
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</div>
<div>
<p
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</div>
<div>
<p
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</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:214.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt">Marcus</span></p>
</div>
<p
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style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
</div>
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</div>
<div
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</div>
<div
id="m_1460679854924948634m_1776690670974839038gmail-m_40752282362891982gmail-m_1467110844684016632divRplyFwdMsg">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:179.4pt"><b>From:</b> Murungi Daniel <<a
href="mailto:dmurungi@wia.co.tz"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">dmurungi@wia.co.tz</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Wednesday,
September 23,
2020 8:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> rpd
>>
AfriNIC
Resource
Policy <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
Re: [rpd]
Transfer
Policy
Proposal
v.3.docx </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:179.4pt"> </p>
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<p
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<p
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style="font-size:10pt">Can
the authors of
the resource
transfer
policy in the
last call
explain, which
problem is
being
addressed?<br>
<br>
The problem
statement
is awkward to
say the least.
The issue with
the problem
statement was
raised in
Luanda and
during the
virtual AIS.
How can we can
adopt a
proposal when
the
problem statement
is out of
scope of the
PDP?<br>
<br>
——-<br>
1. Summary of
the problem
being
addressed by
this proposal<br>
The current
policy fails
to support a
two-way
Inter-RIR
policy,
thereby
hindering
smooth
business
operation,
development,
and growth in
the region.
This proposal
aims to
establish an
efficient and
business-friendly mechanism to allow a number of resources to be
transferred
from/to other
regions. This
proposal
outlines a
model in which
AFRINIC can
freely
transfer
number
resources
to/from other
regions, i.e.
RIPE NCC,
APNIC, ARIN
and LACNIC.
This includes
both
IPv4 addresses
and AS
numbers.<br>
——-</span></p>
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<p
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<p
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Murungi Daniel</span></p>
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<p
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Frediani <<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
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<p
style="margin-left:179.4pt">Hello</p>
<p
style="margin-left:179.4pt">There
is no much I
can do other
than state my
<b>opposition
to this
proposal</b>
to advance and
reach any
consensus
mainly because
5.7.4.3 has
been inverted
from what was
originally in
the proposal
and only
changed at
last minute
due to some
comments in
the PPM going
straight to
last call
which didn't
give
opportunity to
the community
re-evaluate
this major
change and if
it's suitable
to the region
or not.</p>
<p
style="margin-left:179.4pt">Co-Chairs
cannot advance
this proposal
to rough
consensus the
way it is and
I urge and ask
them again to
bring it back
to discussion
to find out a
resolution to
these opened
issues.
Multiple
people raised
substantial
concerns about
it already.
There is no
way it can be
considered
'rough
consensus'.</p>
<p
style="margin-left:179.4pt">I
also
understand
there may be a
hurry to get a
Inter-RIR
transfer
policy as soon
as possible,
but we must
care about
what is most
important than
that which is
get policies
to reflect
what is really
good for the
region and not
just to a few
actors, even
if it takes a
bit longer. I
support
Jordi's
suggestion to
have another
PPM in a few
months so
perhaps this
proposal can
advance from
that point in
time. LACNIC
remained about
2 years
without a
Inter-RIR
transfer
policy after
it run out of
addresses for
new
organizations
and survived.
AfriNic will
survive if it
has to wait a
few more
months in
order to get
things really
right.</p>
<p
style="margin-left:179.4pt">Now
going to the
merit of the
proposal
specially the
main point I
oppose
(5.7.4.3):<br>
There is no</p>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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