<div dir="auto">Dear community,<div dir="auto"><br><div dir="auto">It has been really disconcerting reading the last night's discussion. The amount of personal attacks and passive aggressive statements is making the discussion completely futile. The road of pointing fingers leads nowhere. So let us please stop this and focus on the facts.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">And the facts are that there seems to be a single section of the CPM that is causing most of the controversy. Namely is it the section 3.4.3 on the Last Call. From what I can see one camp is arguing that no changes can be made during the last call. While the other camp is arguing that it is not forbidden.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">This is the problem with language - it always leaves room for interpretation. Therefore, different people reading this section would interpret it differently. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">But the fact is that NO violations took place. Yes, it is true that the section does not explicitly talk about making changes during the last call. However, it does not prohibit us from doing so.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"> As for Jordi's argument that this is not how it's interpreted in the other RIRs - it is irrelevant. The only thing that matters right now is how we can best interpret the CPM for the benefit of the AFRINIC community. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Some of you with different understanding of the CPM may disagree. And it's okay. It seems like the way things are now, achieving any form of agreement is impossible. The only thing that is the possible is to follow the CPM in the way that benefits the community. And it has been clearly stated many times that having a resource transfer policy as soon as possible IS for the benefit of the community. It is also in the benefit of the community that such policy shall be fully compatible with other RIRs. Therefore, it is for the benefit of the community and the region that the necessary changes are made during the last call.</div><div dir="auto"> </div><div dir="auto">And again for those in the back, the CPM does NOT prohibit changes during the last call. Therefore, technically speaking no violations have occurred. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Finally, I would like to point out that the CPM is there to SERVE the best interests community. It really pains me to see how many of you put the wording of the rules above the interests of the people these rules are meant to represent. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The fact is that many will suffer if this policy is not passed in a timely manner. And i firmly believe that it is our duty to prevent this from happening in any way we can. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Best, </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Ekaterina </div><div dir="auto"> </div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, 11:07 lucilla fornaro <<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div><div>Dear Mirriam, </div><div><br></div><div>Is this a competition on who joined the community first? </div><div>I keep reading insults and arguments that NOTHING have to do with this policy and the end of the last call. In an open and inclusive community like Afrinic it is normal to have newbies. Most of the people here have professional experience in some related fields, and their contribution should be welcomed and appreciated, that's how a community grows. </div><div><br></div><div>Regarding the more serious matter, Co-chairs followed the procedure performing their administrative function within the scope of the CPM, and those who disagree with it did not offer a solution to get the community out of this standoff.</div><div><br></div><div>In my opinion, when situations like this happen, the only way is to follow the procedure and direction of co-chairs. </div></div><div><br></div><div>regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Lucilla</div><div><br></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno ven 9 ott 2020 alle ore 06:03 Mirriam via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Pascal,<br><br>Long time since Kampala last year.<br><br>Just to add that we have always had newbies who join the rpd list and become part of the pdwg , learn and contribute to discussions and I was one of them since back in 2015.<br><br>We have also had newbies like Hilario who appears, contributes like the world is ending and then disappear from the face of rpd. <br><br>We have also had newbies who behave like paid up mercenaries. But we welcome newbies of course and some of us are learning and contributing one day at a time.<br><br>I think what others are saying is that, newbies must also take time and learn rather than jumping to conclusion.<br><br>I am a woman and I have never been intimidated by anyone here or even during my first ever AIS meeting in Kampala, I was happy to meet people, learn and socialize with all and believe me I learned a lot from seniors that today I am able to contribute my 2 cents once in a while.<br><br>Best regards,<br>Mirriam</div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div>
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On Thursday, October 8, 2020, 11:17:37 PM GMT+3, Paschal Ochang <<a href="mailto:pascosoft@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">pascosoft@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id="m_9207068843885255435gmail-m_5314239276994969537yiv7517605153"><div>I don't think it will be right to make some derogatory remarks with respect to participant's timeline of entry into the discussions. Rather, we should look at the content of discussions and contributions which in this case is very positive. We as a community encourage active participation to bring the best out of Policy development outcomes. A few years ago this platform wasn't that active but the amount of recent comments and participation shows that there is a move in the positive direction.<div><br clear="none"></div><div>The so called newbies have been giving intelligent contributions therefore telling them to go and read committees archives does not necessarily dictate that they are not well schooled or knowledgeable to engage in the PDP process. </div><div><br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Thursday, October 8, 2020, Arnaud AMELINA <<a rel="nofollow noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:amelnaud@gmail.com" target="_blank">amelnaud@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><div id="m_9207068843885255435gmail-m_5314239276994969537yiv7517605153yqt55468"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>+1. Let not waste our valuable time. No need to also try to understand why these people are so afraid of appeal. These newbies should read carefully the PDP and consult the appeal committee's archives to educate themselves <a rel="nofollow noreferrer" shape="rect" href="https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee/appeal-2018-01-02#details" target="_blank">https://afrinic.net/policy/ appeal-committee/appeal-2018- 01-02#details</a><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Thanks </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>--</div><div>Arnaud </div></div><br clear="none"><div><div dir="ltr">Le jeu. 8 oct. 2020 à 14:04, Fernando Frediani <<a rel="nofollow noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Gaby please read the PDP correctly and do not confuse people.<br clear="none">
</p>
<p>The section 3.5.1 of the CPM says "disagrees with the actions
taken by the Chair(s)" not just with declarations made during the
PPM. The Chairs could have changed their decision meanwhile but
unfortunately they haven't done. They have just decided to keep it
and it is "a decision" which by the CPM bound to appeal.<br clear="none">
</p>
<p>Fernando<br clear="none">
</p>
<div>On 08/10/2020 10:49, Gaby Giner wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Dear community,
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div>I agree with Lucilla but only wish to add 1
point.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>I think everyone has overlooked one huge
matter.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>It is true that by section 3.5(1) of the CPM
“A person who disagrees with the actions taken by the
Chair(s) shall discuss the matter with the PDWG Chair(s) or
with the PDWG”. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>However, I wish to remind everyone that by
section 3.5(2) of the CPM, “The appeal must be submitted
within two weeks of the public knowledge of the decision”. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Applying this into the current facts, the
Chair has publicly announced its decision on 17th September
2020 through the online PPM, whereas, the
disagreement/appeal is only made on 2nd October 2020 onward,
which is factually beyond the 14 days period to appeal. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Therefore, the disagreements/appeal made in
this email thread/mailing list must be deemed invalid and be
disregarded.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Gaby</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Oct 8, 2020, 9:05 PM
lucilla fornaro, <<a rel="nofollow noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com" target="_blank">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail. com</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Sami, dear all,</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Most of the arguments supporting the
policy were not mere "opinions". </div>
<div dir="ltr">A quick reminder, the policy reached a
rough consensus during the PPM and went to the last
call for some editorial changes. The authors, Taiwo
and Anthony, proved to be remarkably active to manage
minor issues and solicitudes from the community. The
resource transfer policy aims to build a stable and
efficient resources management system for the Afrinic
service region.</div>
<div dir="ltr">The overall discussion has been full of
controversies undermining the work of the co-chairs,
an unfair behavior in my opinion. Also, the arguments
against the policy have been strongly taken apart. </div>
<div dir="ltr">We have been debating this policy for
weeks, it is now time to move it to the board for
ratification. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>regards,</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Lucilla </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Il giorno gio 8 ott 2020
alle ore 21:09 Sami Ait Ali Oulahcen via RPD <<a rel="nofollow noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
ha scritto:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I can't see how the "Resource Transfer Policy" could have
reached consensus.<br clear="none">
I think the co-chairs' prerogative is to declare consensus
on policies, <br clear="none">
not general opinions. And "we need an inter-RIR transfer
policy" is a <br clear="none">
general opinion, not a policy.<br clear="none">
The policy in question still had objections
(non-editorial) before last <br clear="none">
call. And it received significant changes during the last
call period <br clear="none">
(it is not what last call is meant for).<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Not that I have any interest in the policy itself being
ratified or not. <br clear="none">
It shouldn't be done this way.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Just my 2c.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Regards,<br clear="none">
Sami<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On 10/8/20 12:30 AM, Moses Serugo wrote:<br clear="none">
> Hello PDWG members,<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> Following the last online PPM held on 16^th -17^th
September 2020. Last <br clear="none">
> call was announced on 21^st September 2020 for the
following policy <br clear="none">
> proposals.<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> * Board Prerogatives on the PDP<br clear="none">
> * Resource Transfer Policy<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> This is to further announce that the last call
period for the above <br clear="none">
> proposals has ended, based on feedback received from
the community and <br clear="none">
> the editorial changes made by authors to address
community concerns, the <br clear="none">
> consensus decision from AFRINIC32 is still
maintained.<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> Co-Chairs will now send a report to the Board
recommending ratification <br clear="none">
> of the two above proposals in line with CPM 3.0.<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> Regards,<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> Co-Chairs<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> ______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">
> RPD mailing list<br clear="none">
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</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">-- <br clear="none">Kind regards, <p>Paschal.<br clear="none"></p></div></div><div id="m_9207068843885255435gmail-m_5314239276994969537yqt00556">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">RPD mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
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