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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Fernando, you made the same implication you have made in many fora whenever I make a comment, namely you use the word broker and imply the proposal in question will only benefit brokers.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>And why is that?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>My contention is that you use that word to discount the motivations of me, the speaker.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>So just knock it off and speak to my arguments.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>In point of fact, you know little about the brokerage business. Retention of legacy status will not change my business one iota.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I would support the policy with or without the legacy language, but since it’s in there and I have shown it to be largely immaterial, I don’t see the point in wasting more time arguing over it.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>So far the best objection I have heard is that it could cost dues-paying AFRINIC members to support the provision of more legacy services to non-payers. That’s an extremely weak objection at this late stage in my opinion, and we have no numbers to support the objection. What is the marginal cost to AFRINIC for the addition of a legacy block to Whois? Is that enough to derail this important policy at this late stage?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I think not.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<br>Mike<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani@gmail.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 09, 2020 2:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd@afrinic.net><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Transfer Policy Proposal v.3.docx<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>I didn't comment the speaker's motivation at any point. Please stop to make up stuff in order to try to censor others to say their opinions about policy related stuff that bothers you.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, 15:04 Mike Burns, <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi Fernando,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Just stick with the arguments and leave the speaker’s motivations out.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It’s a simple global rule of policy mailing lists, in place everywhere for reasons obvious to most.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Mike<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 09, 2020 1:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Transfer Policy Proposal v.3.docx<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Mike, I mentioned on my point that this situation only benefits brokers in my view (which ia true). <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>That fact that you are a broker will not change my mind and my right to put my opinion as it is for the other's consideration.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Get used to it, I will mention as many times I find suitable situations that I see as benefitial only to brokers and not to the whole community, regardless if you are involved in the discussion or not.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I didn't even insinuated anything related to youself specifically or regarding your personal motivations, so you are making up the 'ad hominem' stuff.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It was a pretry much generic comment.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>You have no right to censor myself and any possible issues caused by brokers is of the high interest of this forum to discuss.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Save your time next time.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, 14:38 Mike Burns, <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" target="_blank">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi Fernando,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Legacy blocks make up the bulk of supply for the IPv4 market.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The community has received tens of millions of addresses from legacy holders, and that’s to the community’s benefit.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>This particular proposal will change nothing important, as I have repeatedly pointed out, the situation is the same at RIPE.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Inter-regional transfers happen, a few retain legacy status, and buyers get the addresses they need.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>This proposal should not provide entry point for a long and ultimately un-solvable issue of legacy space in general, as much as that might seem desirable to some. The retention of legacy space is an immaterial matter in the scope of the need for this policy.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Once again I must warn you against ad hominem arguments; investigating the motives of list-participants is not relevant. Please leave out references to brokers and your perception of their motivations from future discussions.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Mike<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 09, 2020 11:56 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Transfer Policy Proposal v.3.docx<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On 09/10/2020 12:32, Mike Burns wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Hi Noah,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Can you provide an estimated total of the fees that we are talking about here and how they compare to AFRINIC’s revenue overall?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>After all, it is your side which is seeking to stop this policy from proceeding, apparently partially based on the fee argument.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I am a legacy holder as well as non-legacy holder and I am well aware of the arguments about provision of legacy services to members with legacy resources. I understand the value of bringing addresses under an RSA, and I understand the value of keeping legacy holders participating. They are at tension.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p>Probably the value of legacy holders participating are only to the Brokers who manage the deal and get commission on it. I don't see the community getting much out of it and still having to pay the bill (regardless if the cost is high or low) which causes a double unfairness: 1) Some pay, some not 2) Some has rules to follow, some not.<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>This is not the place or time for those arguments, however.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p>If a proposal may change this dramatically that is certainly the right place to discuss this matter.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Regards,<br>Mike<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> Noah <a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz" target="_blank"><noah@neo.co.tz></a> <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 09, 2020 11:17 AM<br><b>To:</b> Mike Burns <a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" target="_blank"><mike@iptrading.com></a><br><b>Cc:</b> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank"><jordi.palet@consulintel.es></a>; rpd List <a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><rpd@afrinic.net></a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Transfer Policy Proposal v.3.docx<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 5:54 PM Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" target="_blank">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b> </b> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Fees avoided by legacy status are a very small issue here, <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Mike I am not surprised by your subjective opinion above. As such, be reminded that legacy space holders are benefitting from various services which are made possible from fees paid by AFRINIC resource members. So this is not a small issue if others have to bleed money for legacy space holders to enjoy freely. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>not something that should delay this important policy.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>What is the rush. Shall we not follow the policy development process just because you think this particular proposal is so important because it's open ended which is what you would like to see.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>What is important is that the<b> PDP process must be followed to the letter</b> and all pending issues with this proposal and the other inter-rir transfer policy proposal must be addressed and that includes the impact on AFRINIC Ltd which I am sure you careless about.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Noah<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>