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<p>Ok, I believe I was looking at the wrong thing here, this thread
is about a completely different policy it would seem. My bad. My
apologies.<br>
<br>
Regarding the issue w.r.t. Board Prerogatives, what prevents abuse
here? As I see it directly after a PPM the board could decide to
vary some process for whatever justification is seemingly fit, and
this would stand until the next PPM. They could for example take
the policy that (currently) states that post transfer the source
may only obtain resources again from afrinic within 12 months, and
motivate that this must be changed because it prevents xyz from
obtaining resources.</p>
<p><br>
Kind Regards,<br>
Jaco<br>
</p>
<p>On 2020/10/08 21:07, Jaco Kroon wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:50a02ffd-cece-4699-d88c-9ce9bc9f4367@uls.co.za">
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<p>Hi Ekaterina,</p>
<p>I believe we all agree that we want to get a transfer policy
passed as soon as reasonably possible. I don't think anyone is
disputing the urgency.</p>
<p>We are disputing the process taken, as well as the content of
the specific policy (and I sincerely hope I'm looking at the
right one since there are three possible ones on the site) being
ratified now.<br>
</p>
<p>Nothing that affects me or my employer directly, so frankly -
for me this is one of those "for the greater good" issues.<br>
</p>
<p>As Jordi, amongst others, has pointed out, a CHANGE to the
policy in order to try and make it reciprocal has been
introduced at the very last minute, specifically relating to
legacy resources. Specifically around 5.7.4.3,</p>
<p>Currently worded as:<br>
<br>
Transferred IPv4 legacy resources will no longer be regarded as
legacy resources.</p>
<p>Proposed wording:<br>
<br>
Transferred legacy resources will still be regarded as legacy
resources.</p>
<p>Ref: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-003-d3#proposal"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-003-d3#proposal</a><br>
</p>
<p>Further more, as per <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals</a>
this policy is still "Under Discussion".<br>
</p>
<p>The above means:<br>
<br>
1. Previously, when transfer of legacy resources happened,
inside of AfriNIC, they lost legacy status, and the holders of
those resources would then be bound by the policy manual.</p>
<p>2. Updated wording means that this is no longer the case, and
legacy status is retained.</p>
<p>This is a complete inversion.</p>
<p>Others have stated the issues with these legacy resources and
why we should aim to reduce them, and not keep them around
longer than required.</p>
<p>We can't prescribe to other RIRs. As such, the historic
5.7.4.3 would not be reciprocal with the inter-RIR transfer
policies of other RIRs. We don't want to compound the problem.</p>
<p>As such, this only sensible solution is to allow legacy
resources to retain legacy status as per policy of recipient
RIR, which if AFRINIC is the recipient, or this is an
intra-AFRINIC transfer (to which the policy previously applied)
is that it loses status. As such, 5.7.4.3 could be better
worded as "Transferred IPv4 legacy resources will no longer be
regarded as legacy resources if the recipient is an AFRINIC
member" or "... if the recipient RIR is AFRINIC". This
maintains the status quo for intra-RIR transfers, and enforces
it for inbound transfers, but says nothing for outbound.<br>
</p>
<p>Now we can go on to 5.7.3.1 as well, and indicate that this
means that the *source* of the resources must comply with the
policies of the recipient RIR ... which cannot possibly be the
case if the source is not AFRINIC. The source must comply with
the policies of the source RIR, and the recipient with those of
the recipient RIR ... but that is NOT what the proposed clause
states.<br>
</p>
<p>The proposal mucks up the grammar for 5.7.3.2 without changing
the meaning in any meaningful way in the attempt to change
tenses. Two fixes, leave as per the old wording or fix the
grammar. Both carries the same intent and meaning so this could
be left as current, or "for<b> a</b> 12 month period after"
(this really is a nitpick and grammatical fix). Not that my
grammar is as good as it should be.</p>
<p>In 5.7.4.1 the need for an intra-RIR (AFRNIC to AFRINIC) to
show need for resources is dropped. This is a MAJOR policy
change. Again, the intent is clear, but it's not what's
stated. As far as I can see the extra sentence "<strong>A
transfer from another RIR to AFRINIC requires a need-based
evaluation.</strong>" was simply added in front of the
policy. Perhaps the first sentence of the original clause just
needs to be updated, "AFRINIC must, in the case where the
recipient is an AFRINIC member, approve the recipient's need for
the IPv4 number resources." As I understand this was the
intention of the change, this says nothing of recipients in
other RIRs, as the former wording did, but also doesn't negate
this for intra-AFRINIC transfers.<br>
</p>
<p>Most of the above really are major objections in my view and
understanding, it actually stops the policy from working, or
reverses completely what's currently in the CPM. In my opinion
these are easily fixed, so why not fix it? Or has this been
done already and we simply just don't have visibility onto that
which has been passed into last call and now ratified? As far
as I'm concerned, the state on this policy is still "Under
Discussion" as that's what is stated on <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals</a></p>
<p>I further make note that draft 2 isn't available in any form.
And there is a HUGE variance between draft 1 and draft 3 (which
has been released 21 Sept 2020). And there is a discrepancy
between this date on the main proposal listing (proposals) and
the one on <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-003-d3"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-003-d3</a></p>
<p>So let's take a step back here, some are saying any objections
after 2nd of October should be ignored. So let's step two weeks
back, that takes us to 18 September. So you're telling me a
policy was sent to last call before it was even released?</p>
<p>This does not and cannot possibly be right.<br>
</p>
<p>There is no staff impact assessment available either.</p>
<p>I do not see how this could have gone to last call, never mind
ratification.<br>
</p>
<p>Kind Regards,<br>
Jaco<br>
</p>
<p>On 2020/10/08 19:52, Ekaterina Kalugina wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAHS7WUC1P=X=3O0DLPtCt6812pxj+xLOQ59vNW6gRppKKAemwg@mail.gmail.com">
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charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Dear all,
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div dir="auto">The objections to this policy were not major
objections. Therefore, the chairs performed the
administrative function within the scope of the CPM.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">In addition, none of us are 'fans' of the
proposed policy. It's just some of our colleges including
myself see a great value and need in passing this policy
as soon as possible.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Let us not try to downplay the danger of the
situation. Stability of the region must be preserved. Not
having an inter RIR policy on time could be detrimental.
Especially in these unprecedented times we must take every
step. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The CPM is there to ensure the best future
for the region. This should be our main focus. And it
seems to me that between all these squabbles and passive
aggressive statements many of you lost sight of what is
actually important here. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">In my view, it's important to create a safe
net instead of raging over minor technicalities of the
PDP. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I think it makes more sense to advocate for
preventative care rather than suffer the consequences of
the terribly uncertain future. Wouldn't you agree? </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Best, </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Ekaterina </div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 8 Oct 2020, 19:11
Gregoire EHOUMI via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">I agree with Jordi on this.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">This is a total mess between the policy
proposal versions and the discussions. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I can see that the co-chairs did not take
into account outstanding objections.<br>
<br>
Therefore, I urge co-chairs to reconsider this
decision. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">--<br>
Gregoire </div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Oct. 8, 2020 3:42 a.m., JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt">Hi Moses, all,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt">I feel that there
is a fundamental mistake here and I beg you to
reconsider it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt">You've not waited
for the staff confirmation about the
reciprocity of the Inter-RIR transfers. What
happens if now the staff comes back and
confirms that we can’t decide in our policy
what do to in other regions, so there is no
reciprocity and so, we can’t implement this
policy?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt">Accordingly, I
strongly suggest that you change your mind,
following section 3.5 of the PDP: “A person
who disagrees with the actions taken by the
Chair(s) shall discuss the matter with the
PDWG Chair(s) or with the PDWG”.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt">The reasons for
this are:</span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" type="1" start="1">
<li style="margin-left:0cm"><span
style="font-size:12pt">The only valid
proposal version is the one that is
published at the web site and then announced
to the list. The authors did changes several
times, that aren’t there. As we are
discussing version 2, we should have a
version 2.x to show those.</span></li>
<li style="margin-left:0cm"><span
style="font-size:12pt">The staff must
confirm the reciprocity of the last 2.x
version in the list. As indicated in 3.4.3,
you can extend the last-call to ensure that
this is matched.</span></li>
<li style="margin-left:0cm"><span
style="font-size:12pt">This and other
aspects, have been indicated several times
by myself and others during the last-call.
Those are valid-objections that remain
unresolved and if you extend the last-call
and agree with the latest changes from the
authors, then could make sense, otherwise,
it is impossible that you can declare the
last-call and still “consensus”.</span></li>
</ol>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Regards,</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Jordi</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 8/10/20 1:37,
"Moses Serugo" <<a
href="mailto:moses.serugo@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">moses.serugo@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="color:#1f4e79">Hello PDWG members,</span><span
style="color:#000099"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="color:#1f4e79"> </span><span
style="color:#000099"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="color:#1f4e79">Following the last
online PPM held on 16<sup>th</sup>-17<sup>th</sup>
September 2020. Last call was announced on
21<sup>st</sup> September 2020 for the
following policy proposals.</span><span
style="color:#000099"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:71.4pt"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'symbol';color:#000099">·<span
style="font:7pt 'times new roman'">
</span></span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'trebuchet
ms',sans-serif;color:#1f4e79">Board
Prerogatives on the PDP</span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'trebuchet
ms',sans-serif;color:#000099"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:71.4pt"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'symbol';color:#000099">·<span
style="font:7pt 'times new roman'">
</span></span><span
style="font-family:'trebuchet
ms',sans-serif;color:#1f4e79">Resource
Transfer Policy</span><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'trebuchet
ms',sans-serif;color:#000099"></span></p>
<p
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="color:#1f4e79">This is to further
announce that the last call period for
the above proposals has ended, based on
feedback received from the community and
the editorial changes made by authors to
address community concerns, the consensus
decision from AFRINIC32 is still
maintained.<br>
<br>
Co-Chairs will now send a report to the
Board recommending ratification of the two
above proposals in line with CPM 3.0.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Co-Chairs </span><span
style="color:#000099"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
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