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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi Lucilla,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I understand that, but then we also need to reword section 8, so in my opinion it is much simpler to touch only one section instead of two.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 2/10/20 13:40, "lucilla fornaro" <<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Dear Jordi, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>I know that the proposal is improving existing section 8, not 7.5. I said that, in my opinion, amending the section 7.5.1 to include the mandatory abuse-c <span style='font-family:Helvetica'>as part of whois registration would be a better option.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:Helvetica'>regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-family:Helvetica'>Lucilla </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Il giorno ven 2 ott 2020 alle ore 17:26 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> ha scritto:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Lucilla,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>The proposal is not doing what you say below. Madhvi already confirmed that. If the staff is understanding it and the staff will be the one implementing it, who come it can be wrong?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>The subject, what is an abuse, what not, is not in scope. You just need to have a valid and responsible abuse contact. If you decide to respond automatically even without checking the content neither subject, it is just fine. It is up to the operator to decide and then the victims can also decide.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Note that the proposal is improving existing section 8, not 7.5.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>I think it is superfluous to explain over and over. You think the proposal is wrong, I think is right and I justified it (see the appeal document for more exhaustive details, no need to repeat everything again if it is already very well documented), and the staff is doing the same interpretation as the proposal intent.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>El 1/10/20 14:34, "lucilla fornaro" <<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com" target="_blank">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:70.8pt;font-stretch:normal'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Dear Jordi, dear all</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:70.8pt;font-stretch:normal;min-height:14px'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:70.8pt;font-stretch:normal'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>as you mentioned several times, the staff don’t need to assess the subject line, neither if it is abuse or not. Then, if having a valid contact is what you intend to propose, why don't you acknowledge Lamiaa’s proposal that aims to include abuse-c as part of whois registration under the section 7.5.1 "Registering contact persons" that already covers the other mandatory contact - admin-c or tech-c?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:70.8pt;font-stretch:normal;min-height:14px'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:70.8pt;font-stretch:normal'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica'>See my comments in line:</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>Il giorno lun 21 set 2020 alle ore 19:34 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> ha scritto:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Lucilla,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>The policy only needs to state *<b>what the staff should evaluate</b>* and thus, what members should do. The staff don’t need to evaluate the subject line, neither if it is actually an abuse or not.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>The staff just need to evaluate the abuse mailbox works.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><blockquote style='margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span class=gmail-m4158560427685323971gmail-normaltextrun><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Helvetica;color:#CC0000'>If you do not define or give an input of what abuse is, then how can you properly manage people's mailbox's subject line? How you define it works? You are asking them to respond to emails in a specific way, which is a violation of member’s rights.</span></span><span class=gmail-m4158560427685323971gmail-eop><span style='font-family:Helvetica;color:#CC0000'> </span></span><span style='color:#CC0000'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>In fact, there is *<b>no obligation</b>* for the victim to know what should he put in the subject line. You can just put “abuse case”.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>In fact, if you operate a network, you will know that this is usually managed by a ticket system and the ticket system will replace the subject with a case number!</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><blockquote style='margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span class=gmail-m4158560427685323971gmail-normaltextrun><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Helvetica;color:#CC0000'>It will, but the problem is how this complicated policy is trying to achieve something really simple but using a too intrusive method.</span></span><span class=gmail-m4158560427685323971gmail-eop><span style='font-family:Helvetica;color:#CC0000'> </span></span><span style='color:#CC0000'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Please, let us know how you do in the networks that you operate, so we can understand your perspective.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div><blockquote style='margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=gmail-m4158560427685323971gmail-paragraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:70.8pt;vertical-align:baseline'><span class=gmail-m4158560427685323971gmail-normaltextrun><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Helvetica;color:#CC0000'>Yes, if it were me, I would reply to every abuse and deal with even DMCA claims, however, we are discussing general policy regarding how internet space should be registered, not how to manage an individual network.</span></span><span class=gmail-m4158560427685323971gmail-eop><span lang=IT style='font-family:Helvetica;color:#CC0000'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span class=gmail-m4158560427685323971gmail-normaltextrun><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Helvetica;color:#CC0000'>You are keeping mixing up “best operation practice” with “internet number registration policy”, and you keep telling people what is BOP should be in the policy, and that is wrong. The policy is for proper registration only, for the accuracy of the database, using BOP into policy is not only intrusive but also potential dangers.</span></span><span class=gmail-m4158560427685323971gmail-eop><span style='font-family:Helvetica;color:#CC0000'> </span></span><span style='color:#CC0000'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#CC0000'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>And last, even if this has been responded several times: The proposal doesn’t tell AFRINIC that they should judge if it is an abuse or not!</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div><blockquote style='margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span class=gmail-m4158560427685323971gmail-normaltextrun><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Helvetica;color:#CC0000'>But you tell them to judge what email operator should reply to! That is even worse!</span></span><span class=gmail-m4158560427685323971gmail-eop><span style='font-family:Helvetica;color:#CC0000'> </span></span><span style='color:#CC0000'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>And yes, it is in the scope of AFRINIC to have the contacts accurate and to manage correctly the resources. Please read the legal documents!</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><blockquote style='margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span style='color:#CC0000'> </span><span class=gmail-m4158560427685323971gmail-normaltextrun><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Helvetica;color:#CC0000'>No, it is not. Legal documents are made by lawyers, and it is for the Afrinic limited, not for community. It is the AFRINIC community which defines what to do.</span></span><span class=gmail-m4158560427685323971gmail-eop><span style='font-family:Helvetica;color:#CC0000'> </span></span><span style='color:#CC0000'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>El 21/9/20 12:00, "lucilla fornaro" <<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com" target="_blank">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:106.2pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'>If you do not define or give an input of what abuse is, then how can you properly manage people's mailbox's subject line?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:106.2pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'>This is a crucial element, in my opinion. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:106.2pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:106.2pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'>More importantly, the proposal aims to supply AFRINIC of something that has nothing to do with its scopes. It is not up to AFRINIC to rule like a local court or local policy.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:106.2pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'>As mentioned several times, asking AFRINIC to act as a central government goes against the main element that identifies the Internet: decentralization. The Internet is controlled by many, no one can own it, control it, or switch it off for everyone.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:106.2pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'> AFRINIC should not evaluate how I manage MY mailbox. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:106.2pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:106.2pt'><span style='color:#0E101A'>Lucilla </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>Il giorno lun 21 set 2020 alle ore 14:33 Frank Habicht <<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz" target="_blank">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>> ha scritto:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>Dear chairs,<br><br>On 21/09/2020 03:04, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE wrote:<br>> 6. Abuse Contact Update<br>> <br>> The proposal makes it mandatory for AFRINIC to include in each resource<br>> registration, a contact where network abuse from users of those<br>> resources will be reported. The proposal whois DB attribute (abuse-c)<br>> to be used to publish abuse public contact information. There’s also a<br>> process to ensure that the recipient must receive abuse report and that<br>> contacts are validated by AFRINIC regularly. However, there some<br>> opposition to the proposal there are:<br>> <br>> a. Staff analysis on how it affects legacy holder not<br>> conclusive (not sure why this should affect legacy holders)<br>> <br>> b. The proposal doesn’t state what will be the<br>> consequences of one member fails to comply. Why are we creating the<br>> abuse contact when there is no consequence for not providing the abuse<br>> contact<br>> <br>> c. Abuse contact email and issues with GDPR concerning<br>> the whois database<br>> <br>> d. No proper definition of the term Abuse<br>> <br>> e. To force members to reply to their abuse email is<br>> not in the scope of AFRINIC.<br>> <br>> Chairs Decision: No rough consensus<br><br>About d. "No proper definition of the term Abuse"<br>yes, this was mentioned several times by members opposing.<br>The proposal is about "abuse contacts". it is not about what "abuse" is.<br>there is no need for a definition of "abuse".<br>In my humble opinion the request for a definition of abuse is off-topic.<br><br>Question: if someone makes a proposal about lame DNS servers in domain<br>objects for Reverse-DNS, and I object arguing that a definition of RPKI<br>is needed - what would you do with this argument?<br>Q2: can arguments about a proposal be irrelevant to this proposal?<br>Q3: was that the case here? were arguments, that a definition for abuse<br> is required, irrelevant?<br><br>I request chairs' response to Q2 and Q3.<br><br><br>About e. "To force members to reply to their abuse email is not in the<br>scope of AFRINIC."<br>Yes, that was mentioned several times.<br>And also this is something the proposal does not do and does not attempt.<br>And all the comments about (d.) above apply.<br><br><br>If irrelevant objections are taken as valid arguments, please note that<br>I foresee that any future proposal can get rejected and the PDP will be<br>stuck.<br><br><br>About c. "Abuse contact email and issues with GDPR concerning the whois<br>database"<br>- I didn't see that on the mailing list, can you remind us, or was that<br>only during the live session?<br>- there are other contact information in whois. can staff confirm<br>whether AfriNIC are GDPR compliant?<br>- would that status change if abuse contacts would be added?<br><br><br>About b. "The proposal doesn’t state what will be the consequences of<br>one member fails to comply. Why are we creating the abuse contact when<br>there is no consequence for not providing the abuse contact"<br>- I can imagine that AfriNIC would include in their meeting<br>presentations information regarding how big (in measurable terms) this<br>problem is.<br>- from that the WG can discuss and decide if more actions are necessary.<br><br><br>About a. "Staff analysis on how it affects legacy holder not conclusive<br> (not sure why this should affect legacy holders)"<br>I didn't see that before, but as is tradition in my part of the world,<br>let me respond to the question with a question:<br>Are legacy holders subject to any for the PDWG's policies?<br><br><br>Thanks,<br>Frank<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt'>_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt'><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt'>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><br>**********************************************<br>IPv4 is over<br>Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>The IPv6 Company<br><br>This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>_______________________________________________<br>RPD mailing list<br><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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