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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW">Dear Patrick, <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW">I see your point and thank you very much. Before I respond to that, I just want to say it actually leads to my another reason for objecting this proposal for it doesn’t state what will be the consequences
nor does it guarantee the abuse email will be checked on a routine basis. Then I think it will only become a meaningless policy.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW">If all Afrinic needs to do when it’s getting involved is to ask whether or not someone’s abuse contact responded, and should not be doing anything beyond that, then why would we even need this proposal
? The way I see it is that, I imagine abuse cases have existed and happened before, so if they really care, both the complainants and the complainees would already have a more effective way to do it. And for those who doesn’t really care, having this abuse
contact set up mandatorily doesn’t not help. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW">Let’s say if now Afrinic is going to do just a little more than that, maybe giving a warning. Then I suppose they will at least have to look into the case ? And so under such circumstances Afrinic
will need to have a clear/ defined concept to determine if the abuse case is valid and if further actions are needed ? Though I believe this is out of the scope of RIRs.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:ZH-TW">Chloe<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Patrick Okui <pokui@psg.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 02:58<br>
<b>To: </b>Chloe Kung <chloe.kung.public@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"rpd@afrinic.net" <rpd@afrinic.net>, Jaco Kroon <jaco@uls.co.za><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [rpd] Decisions ... Abuse contact<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Dear Chloe, all, [response inline]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On 30 Sep 2020, at 17:53 EAT, Chloe Kung wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #5855D5 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:3.75pt">
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#5855D5">Like for objection d; no proper definition of the term Abuse, there is still a need to address on it. Yes the proposal is about “building” abuse contact, but just like what Jordi has said, “ The
policy only needs to state what the staff should evaluate and thus, what members should do”, if the definition of the word/ act of Abuse is not clear, how can the staff evaluate such action then? Let's say if they interpret those cases in their own different
ways, it will not be fair to any of the parties nor would it be something we want I suppose. And there are high chance of having mis-interpretation too!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Note that we have a tech-c contact for technical issues. There is no definition of what constitutes ‘technical’ issues for a tech-c contact. The requirement in this proposal is therefore not to define abuse. The
requirement is for the holder of resources to specify where abuse complaints (by the definition
<em><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">of the person complaining</span></em>) should go. Validation is only that it is a working destination that is active.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">If someone sends you non abuse (by
<em><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">your</span></em> definition) to your abuse contact your response is simply “This doesn’t constitute abuse because XYZ”. XYZ can be as simple as “the laws in my country and my AUP don’t prohibit such behaviour”
or “connecting to port 80 is how browsers work”. If someone escalates to AFRINIC the only thing AFRINIC will ask is “Did Chloe’s abuse contact respond?”. Beyond that AFRINIC should not get involved.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Please give an example of a situation where a complaint requires AFRINIC to describe abuse.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">--<br>
patrick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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