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--></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi AK, Moses, all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I will like you to reconsider your decision on this proposal, following CPM 3.5, on the grounds of my responses below, which have already been provided thru previous discussions and I don’t think any of those are valid-objections to the proposal.</span><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>See my points below, in-line.</span><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:71.4pt;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH>7.</span><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:7.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-PH>RPKI ROAs for Unallocated and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH>The proposal instructs AFRINIC to create ROAs for all unallocated and unassigned address space under its control. This will enable networks performing RPKI-based BGP Origin Validation to easily reject all the bogon announcements covering resources managed by AFRINIC. However, there are many oppositions such as: </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:166.65pt;text-indent:-41.25pt;line-height:106%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=EN-PH><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>a.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-PH>Allowing resource holders to create AS0/ ROA will lead to an increase of even more invalid prefixes in the routing table.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'>This shows a lack of understanding of RPKI and the relevant RFCs. Resource holders *<b>ALREADY CAN and DO*</b> that (example IXPs), in fact they do. This has been explained in my presentation. The proposal is just adding clarity on this point, not changing anything.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:166.65pt;text-indent:-41.25pt;line-height:106%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=EN-PH><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>b.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-PH>Revocation time of AS0 state, and the time for new allocation doesn’t match. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'>This is not true, again a misunderstanding about how RPKI works. Several members discussed this in the list. If you get resources, normally you don’t publish them in minutes, so hours, or even days is perfectly valid. In addition to that, it can be improved thru implementation, as I already explained. The staff could tentatively release from the AS0 the resources that they plan to allocate (pending on final documentation, RSA signature, or review with the member, etc.).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:166.65pt;text-indent:-41.25pt;line-height:106%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=EN-PH><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>c.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-PH>Other RIRs don’t have a similar the policy therefore, it can not be effective<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'>All the policies have different discussions in different RIRs at different times. This policy is already available in APNIC and LACNIC. There are policies in AFRINIC which aren’t in other RIRs. Does that make them invalid (or in other words, this is an invalid objection – is good that all RIRs do the same, but is not always that the case, or not at the same time).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:166.65pt;text-indent:-41.25pt;line-height:106%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=EN-PH><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>d.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-PH>This will become a uniform policy if it is not globally implemented, which causes additional stress. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'>Absolutely not, the way we suggest the staff, and they confirmed, with an independent TAL protects *<b>as expected by the proposal</b>* the resources of the RIR implementing it, not creating *<b>any issue</b>* in what is done in other RIRs to any operator.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:125.4pt;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH>e.</span><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:7.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-PH>Validity period: if members decide to implement it, is it not better to recover the space if it is kept unused for too long?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'>This doesn’t make sense, at least not as worded. This is not about recovering space, no relation. It is the unused space hold by AFRINIC.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:166.65pt;text-indent:-41.25pt;line-height:106%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=EN-PH><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>e.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-PH>How do we revoke the ROA? How long does it take to revoke it (chain/ refreshing )?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'>This is the same as b above, right? It doesn’t matter in practice, if it takes minutes or hours or even days.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:166.65pt;text-indent:-41.25pt;line-height:106%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=EN-PH><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>f.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-PH>What happens if AFRINIC accidentally issues a ROA for an address in error?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'>Exactly the same if the existing RPKI fails, and that’s why there are monitoring systems in place and caches, etc. This proposal doesn't change that.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:166.65pt;text-indent:-41.25pt;line-height:106%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=EN-PH><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>g.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-PH>It also might affect the neighbours and involves monitoring of unallocated spaces.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'>What is the meaning of neighbours here? Yes, the same monitoring that *<b>right now</b>* should be done by AFRINIC. This proposal ensures that it is improved so hijacking of unused space is less prone to occur, that the purpose of the proposal and RPKI, increase the routing security.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:166.65pt;text-indent:-41.25pt;line-height:106%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=EN-PH><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>h.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=EN-PH>Possibility of it being used against a member who is yet to pay dues.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH>AFRINIC has the obligation to avoid members not paying to stop using the resources, so they are available to other members. Even if we don’t have this proposal, AFRINIC could, following the bylaws and RSA, do whatever actions, including technical ones, to make sure that they are not used.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH>Suggestions were made to improve the policy such as </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:170.4pt;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH>a)</span><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:7.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-PH>The automatic creation of AS0 ROAs should be limited to space that has never been allocated by an RIR or part of a legacy allocation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'>This doesn’t make any sense and has not been considered at all in other RIRs discussions. That will mean that even if a member return the space, and stop replying to AFRINIC, the space will never come to the AS0 ROAs. This is related also to the next point.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:170.4pt;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH>b)</span><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:7.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-PH>AFRINIC should require the explicit consent of the previous holder to issue AS0 ROAs in respect of re-claimed, returned, etc, space.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'>This doesn’t make any sense and has not been considered at all in other RIRs discussions. If a member is not following the established legal bindings, not just AFRINIC, but *<b>any</b>* organization, has the obligation, to ensure that the member is not cheating the other members and take any actions they can to fullfill the recovery or whatever is needed. The proposal doesn’t state if AFRINIC should take some intermediate steps in cases of litigation, disagreements, etc. however, the legal documents already state that they should try to remediate the situation before the recovery, so it is clearly part of the existing process and will not only affect this proposal but all the CPM. A member can just disappear (a bankruptcy), so if this is not done, the resources could never be recovered, while the legal documents, already state that!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:170.4pt;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH>c)</span><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:7.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-PH>Any ROAs issued under this policy should be issued and published in a way that makes it operationally easy for a relying party to ignore them (probably by issuing under a separate TA).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'>This is already explicit in the proposal and confirmed by the staff. Nevertheless, it is an operational decision, and could be changed over the time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='margin:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:170.4pt;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH>d)</span><span lang=EN-PH style='font-size:7.0pt;line-height:106%;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'> </span><span lang=EN-PH>The proposal should include the clause “as used in APNIC as to dues not paid on time.”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'>Can you please point to the relevant presentation? I’ve followed, and reviewer all the APNIC work on this (I participated in all that) and I can’t find what you mean.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=gmail-msolistparagraph style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;line-height:106%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt;line-height:106%'><span lang=EN-PH>Chairs Decision: No consensus</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span lang=EN-PH><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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