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<p>Hi,</p>
<p>Others have stated the below too. I too agree with Jordi, I fail
to see any valid objections to this, as per my earlier emails on
the matter.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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<p>Kind Regards,<br>
Jaco<br>
</p>
<p>On 2020/09/30 09:24, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<br>
</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Tks Madhvi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">With all this in mind, I’m formally asking to
the chairs, as per CPM section 3.5, to reconsider their
position regarding this proposal (AFPUB-2018-GEN-001-DRAFT06
- Abuse Contact Policy Update), which should be brought to
the last call.<b><o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Regarding your point c. I already clarified
this in the meeting, just want to make sure that you
captured it correctly. There is nothing in the CPM that
affects legacy holders.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">In fact, even 5.7 doesn’t affect legacy
holders, because 5.7.4.3 *<b>only</b>* affects the
transferred resources, when the resources are transferred,
and that means it affects the new resource holder “not the
legacy holder”. It is a small clarification (not related to
this proposal), but I think is key to correctly interpret
this point.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 30/9/20
8:20, "Madhvi Gokool" <<a
href="mailto:madhvi@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">madhvi@afrinic.net</a>>
escribió:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Dear Frank/Community members<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">a) In the Impact Assessment, staff
assumed that the policy will not impact the legacy resources
in the AFRINIC whois database and requested the authors to
confirm that this is so. AFRINIC staff needs to keep this in
consideration at the time of implementation(myafrinic and
whois business rules) - abuse-c mandatory for non-legacy
resources. Staff were therefore satisfied with this
confirmation and had not indicated otherwise to the co-chairs
and community in the session.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">b) "AFRINIC is bound by the
Mauritian Data Protection Act 2017 (inspired by GDPR). For
more information on AFRINIC's Privacy Policy, click on the
following link - <span style="color:black"><a
href="https://www.afrinic.net/privacy"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.afrinic.net/privacy</a>.
Thus, implementation of the abuse-c will not impact
negatively on AFRINIC's data protection obligations."</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">c) The only policy that affects
the legacy resource holders is documented in Section 5.7 of
the CPM - and it regards transfers of legacy resources.
Legacy Holders are not bound by any other resource policies. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Staff therefore will confirm with
the authors that their policies do not affect legacy resources
, especially when implementation will be done on the whois
database. This is to ensure that the implementation does not
negatively impact how the legacy resource holders manage
their resources on the whois database. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">d) In the Policy Implementation
Experience Report during AFRINIC-32/AIS'20 , staff have
pointed out that Section 8 of the CPM does not enforce a
mandatory abuse contact . They also mentioned that they are
having to respond to an increase in complaints regarding
missing abuse contacts in the number resources in the AFRINIC
whois database and that operators have warned that they will
filter the resources with no abuse contacts. Staff are
therefore doing the work for the members , as they are bound
to respond to any queries that are logged with the AFRINIC
service desk. This situation is not scalable in the long term
& AFRINIC invites the community to also ponder on this
feedback.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Kind Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Madhvi<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Madhvi Gokool<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Senior IP Resources Specialist<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">AFRINIC Ltd.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">t: +230 403 5100 | f: +230 466 6758 | <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">w: <a href="http://www.afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">www.afrinic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On 28/09/2020
8:09 PM, Frank Habicht wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Dear chairs,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">On 21/09/2020 08:32, Frank Habicht wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Dear chairs,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">On 21/09/2020 03:04, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">6. Abuse Contact Update<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">The proposal makes it mandatory for AFRINIC to include in each resource<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">registration, a contact where network abuse from users of those<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">resources will be reported. The proposal whois DB attribute (abuse-c)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">to be used to publish abuse public contact information. There’s also a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">process to ensure that the recipient must receive abuse report and that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">contacts are validated by AFRINIC regularly. However, there some<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">opposition to the proposal there are:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">a. Staff analysis on how it affects legacy holder not<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">conclusive (not sure why this should affect legacy holders)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">b. The proposal doesn’t state what will be the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">consequences of one member fails to comply. Why are we creating the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">abuse contact when there is no consequence for not providing the abuse<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">contact<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">c. Abuse contact email and issues with GDPR concerning<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">the whois database<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">d. No proper definition of the term Abuse<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">e. To force members to reply to their abuse email is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">not in the scope of AFRINIC.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Chairs Decision: No rough consensus<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">About d. "No proper definition of the term Abuse"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">yes, this was mentioned several times by members opposing.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">The proposal is about "abuse contacts". it is not about what "abuse" is.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">there is no need for a definition of "abuse".<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">In my humble opinion the request for a definition of abuse is off-topic.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Question: if someone makes a proposal about lame DNS servers in domain<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">objects for Reverse-DNS, and I object arguing that a definition of RPKI<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">is needed - what would you do with this argument?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Q2: can arguments about a proposal be irrelevant to this proposal?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Q3: was that the case here? were arguments, that a definition for abuse<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"> is required, irrelevant?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">I request chairs' response to Q2 and Q3.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Dear chairs, requesting a response.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Note: chairs said this was a point of opposition.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">I argue that this was an irrelevant point.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">About e. "To force members to reply to their abuse email is not in the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">scope of AFRINIC."<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Yes, that was mentioned several times.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">And also this is something the proposal does not do and does not attempt.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">And all the comments about (d.) above apply.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">How can people complain that the proposal does something, when the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">proposal doesn't do that?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">How can that be a valid objections?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Chairs?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">If irrelevant objections are taken as valid arguments, please note that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">I foresee that any future proposal can get rejected and the PDP will be<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">stuck.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">About c. "Abuse contact email and issues with GDPR concerning the whois<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">database"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">- I didn't see that on the mailing list, can you remind us, or was that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">only during the live session?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">- there are other contact information in whois. can staff confirm<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">whether AfriNIC are GDPR compliant?<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">AfriNIC staff: above is a question for you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">yes, I think I know the answer, but maybe the ones arguing that this is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">a problem with the proposed policy don't know the answer.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">- would that status change if abuse contacts would be added?<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">same... AfriNIC staff, please help.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">About b. "The proposal doesn’t state what will be the consequences of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">one member fails to comply. Why are we creating the abuse contact when<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">there is no consequence for not providing the abuse contact"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">- I can imagine that AfriNIC would include in their meeting<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">presentations information regarding how big (in measurable terms) this<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">problem is.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">- from that the WG can discuss and decide if more actions are necessary.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Chairs, does my above answer sufficiently address the point b. of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">opposition that you had listed as relevant?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">About a. "Staff analysis on how it affects legacy holder not conclusive<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"> (not sure why this should affect legacy holders)"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">I didn't see that before, but as is tradition in my part of the world,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">let me respond to the question with a question:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Are legacy holders subject to any for the PDWG's policies?<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Madhvi, please help: does any policy affect legacy holders?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Frank<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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