<div dir="auto"><div>Hey all,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Let us take a step back and look at the facts. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The abuse contact policy have received multiple unaddressed objections. Even if we all agreed that abuse-c has to be mandatory, the policy still has to be functional and therefore address issues such as non-compliance and enforcement. Until this is done, the consensus will not be reached. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Dismissing objections as "invalid" and attacking the decisions of the co-chairs is not a way to go. In fact, this is the way to undermine the legitimacy of the entire PDP and thus threaten the integrity of all the work that had been done here. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Yes, it is a shame that the policy would need to be dragged for longer, but this is not as crucial as the Resource Transfer Policy for the future of AFRINIC. Therefore, I fail to see how this argument is in any way relevant. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Finally, Jordi, I cannot even begin to understand how much time and effort you put into this policy. But whether the policy is being implemented or not is up to the community, and the community did not reach consensus. Trying to undermine this decision is not playing fair. There are other authors whose policies got rejected and they accepted the community's decision with grace and understanding. I can only respectfully ask you to do the same and try your luck again next time. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Warmest wishes, </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Ekaterina </div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 30 Sep 2020, 17:51 Jaco Kroon <<a href="mailto:jaco@uls.co.za" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jaco@uls.co.za</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hi Lamiaa,</p>
<p>The link and all related quotes below relates to a dashboard
policy.</p>
<p>To the best of my knowledge this policy isn't being pushed, we're
pushing the abuse contact policy, which has now been officially
dragging 2 years, the longest open proposal without resolution.
The dashboard is a different proposal, and I would welcome such a
dashboard, whether or not it should be a matter of policy is a
different discussion.<br>
</p>
<p>Kind Regards,<br>
Jaco<br>
</p>
On 2020/09/30 17:26, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Hi Jordi,<br>
<br>
I am very disappointed with what you are doing. There are a
vast amount of significant objections that clearly state this
policy is a no-go.<br>
<br>
And it is not only a no-go here, but you have also been
clearly told so in RIPE as well for the same policy. Why are
you not questioning the decision of the RIPE working group on
the same policy and with very similar major objections?<br>
<br>
A simple google would find you the following results (<a href="https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/address-policy-wg/2020-May/013189.html" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/address-policy-wg/2020-May/013189.html</a>),
and they are all coming from veterans of the RIPE community:<br>
<br>
“Members who "care" will probably deal with issues and those
who don't care won't start caring, so I'm struggling to see
what value this brings”<br>
<br>
Mr Michele Neylon<br>
Blacknight Solutions<br>
<br>
<br>
“Why does this need to be a policy? This is an operational
implementation thing, not a strategic direction issue.”<br>
<br>
Nick Hilliard<br>
<br>
<br>
“I’m even more confused and struggling to understand how this
is relevant to the AP WG. Could you please explain?<br>
<br>
First of all, this dashboard thing is an operational service
matter. Please clarify why you think it needs to be a policy
issue.<br>
<br>
Next, if you wanted to know if the NCC is considering this
dashboard idea, you could simply have asked them. Or raised
the matter in the NCC Services WG. Have you done either of
those things? If so, what was the response?”<br>
<br>
Jim Reid<br>
<br>
Just to quote a few.<br>
<br>
People have been repeatedly telling you multiple times: this
is not a good policy, and you counter-arguing with the chair
and saying you have addressed those concerns is not really a
way to work constructively.</font>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Regards,</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Lamiaa<br clear="all">
</font>
<div>
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<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mer. 30 sept. 2020 à 16:05,
Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hello Chloe, would you support the same reasoning for the
Resource Transfer Policy as well ?</p>
<p>Regards<br>
Fernando<br>
</p>
<div>On 30/09/2020 11:53, Chloe Kung wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Hi
Jaco, </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">I
don’t see why you cannot find valid objections and
hence think this proposal should be in the last
call. I agree with Gaby. The fact that many of us
are still discussing the matter and object the
proposal in all different reasons, is the prove of
there is no reaching rough consensus. And so we
should not rush it into last call just because some
think it’s doing good or all problems have been
taken care of. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Like
for objection d; no proper definition of the term
Abuse, there is still a need to address on it. Yes
the proposal is about “building” abuse contact, but
just like what Jordi has said, “ The policy only
needs to state what the staff should evaluate and
thus, what members should do”, if the definition of
the word/ act of Abuse is not clear, how can the
staff evaluate such action then? Let's say if they
interpret those cases in their own different ways,
it will not be fair to any of the parties nor would
it be something we want I suppose. And there are
high chance of having mis-interpretation too! </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Best,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Chloe
</span></p>
</div>
<br>
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