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<p>Dear All, <br>
</p>
<p>I wish to start my comments from Jordi's statements. I totally
agree that we should look at policy proposals from the perspective
of whether is it good for the community. <br>
</p>
<p>1. There is a silent conspiracy of competition where community
members are competing against each other to push personal agenda,
rather than proposing a policy that truly serves the interest of
all. <br>
</p>
<p>2. I agree that the attempts made by Jordi in getting the other
two Inter-RIR proposals authors to come to an agreement to have a
common document is laudable. However, I am also aware that the
authors (Taiwo and Co.) agree to Jordi's suggestion and had a
discussion. The outcome of the meeting suggests that Jordi and
Taiwo's group have an open mind towards having an acceptable and
possibly a working proposal.</p>
<p>3. To further show good faith Jordi opted to support Taiwo and
Co's proposal (if I am not mistaken). I believe Jordi is still
committed to that and will want to see that we all support this
effort especially with the call of the Co-Chairs.</p>
<p>4. I don't want to believe we at an "Ego" war, where some people
will feel defeated, because there was no competition in the first
place.</p>
<p>5. I am sure the spirit behind the Co-chairs call is to see an
end to this perceive competition which is unhealthy and time
consuming.</p>
<p>6. We all agreed that Inter-RIR policy is desirable, and we
cannot have one in isolation of the other RIRs. Therefore,
openness on this is very important, hence we should align with a
policy that pushes that.</p>
<p>7. I see a significant attempt to strangulate the Co-chairs
because their call did not go the way of some members of the
community. I will want to caution here that we can easily create a
vicious cycle, where no Co-chair can ever make a call on any
proposal without being hanged. This also can lead to members of
the community refusing to be Co-chair and we will one day be left
stranded.</p>
<p>It is important we give the Co-chairs a breather and salute their
courage in navigating the maze of the issues on ground and bring
us to some point. I suggest we concentrate on refining the
proposal on call.</p>
<p>Simply,</p>
<p>Daniel<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 29/09/2020 10:31 am, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I don’t need to look into the video again. I
was there, I recall all the details, I also understand
Marcus point but we need to put everything in the right time
and context, and recognize all the historic facts at the
same time BUT look into what is best for the community:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" type="1" start="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">My Inter-RIR proposal was the first one.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I think the *<b>minimum</b>* that people that
don’t like a proposal should do, *<b>before submitting a
competitive proposal</b>*, is to talk in the list and/or
in private with the authors of an earlier proposal to try
to agree. As an example of what I think is the right
behavior: I did that before the Dakar meeting, for a
completely different topic (it doesn’t matter for this
discussion), and only after not having reaction from the
authors in months and meeting them in Dakar, I submitted
my “competing” proposal . Then I withdraw it in Hammamet
under the promise from the authors that they will this
time take it – nothing happened.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">So, what I would have expected for proposal 2
and 3 authors is to first contact me to try to resolve it.
Specially because one of the authors of one of those
proposals was the one telling me in Hammamet that I was
not doing right competing to them and “I was just a guest
there …” (and no code of conduct was applied). Not nice.
Even in that situation, I’m always be very happy, as I’ve
said many times, to work with other committed authors.
People that respond to emails, people that really want the
good of the community, *<b>even</b>* if this is against
their own personal views. I’ve demonstrated many times,
that I’ve supported points or even complete proposals that
I was personally against, but I recognize it was the good
of the community.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Nevertheless, all that *<b>doesn’t care at
all</b>*. Proposals are not about authors, are about
what is the best for the community!<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">This is why my proposal has aspects that I
was not agreeing or considering necessary, such as the ASN
or the security belt: because I was hearing the community
inputs. Consequently, I’ve been always happy to
incorporate or remove or reword any points if that means
reaching consensus in something that is good for the
community. Of course, if I strongly believe that is “bad”
I will try to find a middle-agreement point. This is what
*<b>consensus</b>* means!<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Before Luanda, co-chairs, staff and other
authors can confirm, I’ve tried to find an agreement,
organize a call, or even a meeting in Luanda among all
(before the PPM), etc. and have a single proposal (note
that I’m not saying this or that proposal, just something
in common). I’ve even met in person one of the authors in
the previous IETF, he got no time for trying to fix it.
There was no way to agree. Somehow, I was thinking that
one of the proposals was closer to what I think is the
best for the community - again, NOT FOR ME, I’m irrelevant
– I can “concede” (the latin original meaning of
consensus) in what is not essential for me, if it is still
good for the community.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I’ve been always open to keep finding an
agreement and this is why I keep trying to fix, at the
moment, not my proposal, but the one that looks closer to
what is best to the community *<b>even if is not my
proposal – doesn’t care!</b>*.<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">If we can’t resolve this now, I will proceed
again with my proposal unless we can find a common
agreement of what is the *<b>best for the community</b>*,
not any authors personal preferences, not subjective views
of anyone and 1<sup>st</sup> respecting as much as we can
the actual policy because some members already used that
one and will not be fair that they now are “losers” in
front of who is coming later (unless as part of the
proposal we can give them back the same benefits).<o:p></o:p></span></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">So
please, let’s stop subjective considerations, including
“this is not the right problem statement”, and many
others, and concentrate in getting it right *<b>for the
best of the community</b>*, being fair with all the
parties as much as we can, including those that already
applied to the actual CPM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 29/9/20
11:05, "lucilla fornaro" <<a
href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Dear
Marcus,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I have
watched the video that you linked carefully. I don't
see how it can be relevant now. The video was
uploaded 9 months ago, and it concerns another
discussion. It is pointless for the current one.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">How is
the co-chairs' behavior defamatory? There is no
damaging of the good reputation of anyone.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Lucilla<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Il giorno
mar 29 set 2020 alle ore 17:34 Marcus K. G. Adomey <<a
href="mailto:madomey@hotmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">madomey@hotmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121">Hi Taiwo,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121">If you watch the video below
from section 3:07:30 - 3:11:00, you will notice that
the cochairs attempted to force Jordi to drop his
proposal and support Taiwo/Anthony proposal and then
asked Taiwo/Anthony to drop theirs to support Jordi
and both groups refused. The cochairs then suggested
that the two can work together only to be told by
remote participant that this is not how the PDP
works and the cochairs then asked for staff
analysis.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121">This was a clear violation of
the PDP by cochairs by attempting to force authors
of 1st and 2nd proposals to work together knowing
very well there is a 3rd similar proposal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121">Defamation is easy to prove
within an open and transparent process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121">Link: <a
href="https://youtu.be/DF0AFeaNiS0"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://youtu.be/DF0AFeaNiS0</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;background:white"><span
style="color:#212121">Marcus<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr width="100%" size="0" align="center"></div>
<div id="gmail-m_6566711624436853170divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span
style="color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="color:black"> Taiwo Oyewande <<a
href="mailto:taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 25, 2020 5:24:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Marcus K. G. Adomey <<a
href="mailto:madomey@hotmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">madomey@hotmail.com</a>>;
Noah <<a href="mailto:noah@neo.co.tz"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">noah@neo.co.tz</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Murungi Daniel <<a
href="mailto:dmurungi@wia.co.tz" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">dmurungi@wia.co.tz</a>>;
rpd >> AfriNIC Resource Policy <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Transfer Policy Proposal
v.3.docx</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hi
all, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Discussing
a problem statement that will not be implemented
in the CPM is not really taking us forward. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">There
is an obvious war against the co chairs for doing
a job that the community mandated them to do by
the status of their election. The co-chairs
discussed each points raised with the various
authors and tried to see if all the points were
duly addressed before making their decisions. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I
saw a false and misleading statement about the
cochairs trying to get the authors of 2 of the 3
related policies against the authors of the 3rd
policy. Is this what members of this working group
has turned to?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Trying
to create a bad name for another member using
scenarios that never occurred. I think that is the
height of desperation and such defamation of
character should not be encouraged on this list<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Taiwo<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt">On
25 Sep 2020, at 14:17, Marcus K. G. Adomey
<<a href="mailto:madomey@hotmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">madomey@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Dear
all, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">The
Policy “Resource Transfer Policy”
(AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT01) proposed by
Anthony Ikechukwu Ubah and Taiwo
Oyewande is based on a fake problem for
our region.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">(1)
“The current policy fails to support a
two-way Inter-RIR policy” – And so what?
This was an intra-RIR transfer policy,
not meant to be Inter-RIR<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">(2)
“there by hindering smooth business
operation”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Can
the authors of the policy show how the
current situation is “hindering smooth
business operation?”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Further,
they should tell us what they mean by
“smooth business operation”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">(3)
“development and growth in the region”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Can
the authors of the policy prove that the
current status is hindering “development
and growth in the region”?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">It
is clear that the authors of the policy
have used unsubstantiated claims to
buttress the need for this policy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Basically,
the Resource Transfer Policy is intended
to take Internet Resources on one region
to the other. We all know that Africa is
at its developing stage and needs more
internet resources to support its
developmental process. Accepting this
policy means that the little resources
left in our region will be taken away,
especially when we don’t have the
mechanism in place to enforce the
auditing of the use of the allocated
resources.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Moreover,
any unmanaged inter-RIR transfer policy
will weaken the development of the
Internet in the region as we have no
control over this global market which
never played in our favor. It may also
affect AFRINIC operations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Recent
findings discussed on this list show how
transferred resources are being used.
The global community is yet to discuss
the impact on transfer. I am more
concerned for our region.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Reconsider
your decision and let us discuss the
best approach to engage the Region into
the global resources transfer world.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Marcus<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr width="100%" size="0" align="center"></div>
<div
id="gmail-m_6566711624436853170x_divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span
style="color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="color:black"> Murungi Daniel <<a
href="mailto:dmurungi@wia.co.tz"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">dmurungi@wia.co.tz</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 23, 2020
8:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> rpd >> AfriNIC Resource
Policy <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [rpd] Transfer Policy
Proposal v.3.docx</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Hello,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Can the authors
of the resource transfer policy in the
last call explain, which problem is
being addressed?<br>
<br>
The problem statement is awkward to say
the least. The issue with the problem
statement was raised in Luanda and
during the virtual AIS. How can we can
adopt a proposal when the
problem statement is out of scope of the
PDP?<br>
<br>
——-<br>
1. Summary of the problem being
addressed by this proposal<br>
The current policy fails to support a
two-way Inter-RIR policy, thereby
hindering smooth business operation,
development, and growth in the region.
This proposal aims to establish an
efficient and business-friendly
mechanism to allow a number of resources
to be transferred from/to other regions.
This proposal outlines a model in which
AFRINIC can freely transfer number
resources to/from other regions, i.e.
RIPE NCC, APNIC, ARIN and LACNIC. This
includes both IPv4 addresses and AS
numbers.<br>
——-<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
Murungi Daniel</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt">On Sep 23,
2020, at 10:39 PM, Fernando Frediani
<<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hello<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">There is
no much I can do other than state my
<b>opposition to this proposal</b>
to advance and reach any consensus
mainly because 5.7.4.3 has been
inverted from what was originally in
the proposal and only changed at
last minute due to some comments in
the PPM going straight to last call
which didn't give opportunity to the
community re-evaluate this major
change and if it's suitable to the
region or not.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Co-Chairs
cannot advance this proposal to
rough consensus the way it is and I
urge and ask them again to bring it
back to discussion to find out a
resolution to these opened issues.
Multiple people raised substantial
concerns about it already. There is
no way it can be considered 'rough
consensus'.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">I also
understand there may be a hurry to
get a Inter-RIR transfer policy as
soon as possible, but we must care
about what is most important than
that which is get policies to
reflect what is really good for the
region and not just to a few actors,
even if it takes a bit longer. I
support Jordi's suggestion to have
another PPM in a few months so
perhaps this proposal can advance
from that point in time. LACNIC
remained about 2 years without a
Inter-RIR transfer policy after it
run out of addresses for new
organizations and survived. AfriNic
will survive if it has to wait a few
more months in order to get things
really right.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Now
going to the merit of the proposal
specially the main point I oppose
(5.7.4.3):<br>
There is no sense at all to keep
considering transferred legacy
resources as legacy. This doesn't
work that way and has a proper
reason to be like that which is fix
a historical internet problem and
reduce legacy resources with time as
they get transferred to 'normal'
organizations who purchased them in
the market for example.<br>
In this way organizations receiving
these resources are bind to the same
rules everybody else making it much
fair to everybody and making no
distinction between members.<br>
Allowing resources to remain
considered legacy only contributed
to abuses and unfairness allowing
those who can pay more do whatever
they like which is bad for the rest
of the Internet community which are
subject to the same rules that
apply equally to them.<br>
If transferred legacy resources are
not considered legacy anymore more
and more they will apply equally for
everybody as they become as a normal
resource within any RIR. There has
been a strong reason for this be
like that until now and to continue
like that.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-left:35.4pt">Regards<br>
Fernando<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt">On
23/09/2020 09:49, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hi Taiwo, all,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">I've looked into the doc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Let me say something before going into a more detailed analysis: I *fully support* this proposal, and I will be happy to withdraw it once:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">1) The staff confirms that all the points on the staff analysis have been cleared and thus, the policy could be implemented and will be functional in the intended purpose.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">2) The board ratifies the policy (which means also it passes the last call).<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Why? If anything in the process fails, I still believe my proposal is clearer and never mind is my proposal or this one I'm happy to work with the authors to make sure to resolve the issues that may happen as indicated in 1 and 2 above (hopefully there are no issues).<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">I've now a more detailed analysis, please really, needs to be taken seriously with the staff or we may ruin the policy and not allow to be functional.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">There is something which doesn't make sense: The text in point 5.7. The CPM should be read always as "actual" so "soon will exhaust ..." is not logic, neither needed for the purpose of this policy. In addition, there are typos there ...<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">This is an editorial change that according to the PDP should be possible as part of the last call. I will suggest to keep it simple:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">5.7 IPv4 Resources transfer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">This policy applies to an organization with a justified need for IPv4 resources (recipients) and organizations with IPv4 resources which no longer need (sources).<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">I see that the "disputes" issue has been resolved! Tks! Anyway, I think there is another editorial problem there.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Actual text:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">5.7.3.1 The source must be the current rightful holder of the IPv4 address resources registered with any RIR, and shall be in compliance with the policies of the receiving RIR, and shall not be involved in any dispute as to the status of those resources.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">I suggest:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">5.7.3.1 The source must be the current rightful holder of the IPv4 address resources registered with any RIR, in compliance with the relevant policies, and shall not be involved in any dispute as to the status of those resources.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Keeping the "policies of the receiving RIR" is contradictory ... changing it with "relevant policies" allows both RIRs to ensure that everything is correct.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Grammar maybe, I'm not English native speaker:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">"for 12 months period" or "for a 12 months period"<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">I think 5.7.3.3. doesn't add any value, it could be removed and doesn't change anything: if there is no limite, no need to mention it. If there is not agreement, clearly the transfer will not happen because the parties don't authorize it, and then the RIR(s) don't authorize it!<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Similarly 5.7.4.2. could be removed as well. We already said that the recipient should comply with policies (5.7.3.1), so what is this adding? Just superfluous text.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Note also my imputs in the previous email, regarding the hold period and the legacy status. I think 5.7.4.3, should be "IPv4 legacy resources "Transferred incoming or within AFRINIC IPv4 legacy resources will no longer be regarded as legacy resources".<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">5.7.5.1 is already indicated by the staff as something problematic with the actual wording. The transferring party (the source) may not have any relation (not a member) with the receiving RIR. With this text we are enforcing *all the RIRs* to offer a standard template and process on our mandate. WE CAN'T DO THAT. Our policies only have a mandate in AFRINIC, not in the other RIRs.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">If we just remove section 5.7.5, and leave it to the staff as part of the operational procedure, the the problem is resolved because the existing process among the all other 4 RIRs for transfers will be "joined" by AFRINIC. It is just a matter of interconection among systems and processes!<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">I think all this should be carefully studied among the authors and the staff and the chairs should make sure that the verstion coming to last call has corrected all those issues.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">I hope all this is useful.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Jordi<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 23/9/20 9:38, "Taiwo Oyewande" <a href="mailto:taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com></a> escribió:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"> Hello PDWG,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"> Attached is the updated version of the Resource Transfer Policy proposal. As recommended, changes have been effected on sub-section 5.7.3.2, and 5.7.4.3 according to the co-chair summary. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"> RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"> <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">**********************************************<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">IPv4 is over<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">Are you ready for the new Internet ?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><a href="http://www.theipv6company.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">The IPv6 Company<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt">RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
**********************************************<br>
IPv4 is over<br>
Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.theipv6company.com">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
The IPv6 Company<br>
<br>
This electronic message contains information which may be
privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for
the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further
non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use
of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a
criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware
that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents
of this information, even if partially, including attached files,
is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so
you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
communication and delete it.<br>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
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