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<p>If it is like what you are saying and there is nothing being
swept under that carpet then why the author just don't change the
text back to what it was originally and concentrate on other main
points ? Otherwise it will still be clear it was changed at the
last minute on propose and without much explanation reason why
there is so much going on about something that you call "out of
scope". If it's out of scope then leave as it was originally.<br>
It is inexplainable, strange and really concerning and suddenly
people saying "please don't touch this". Doesn't make sense at
all.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 28/09/2020 22:36, Ibeanusi Elvis
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:E98EC61B-3CA5-448B-9288-444FD766D424@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
@Fernando,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The scope of this proposal is to deal with the issue
of Inter-RIR Resource Transfer and as outlined by various people
in the community on some concerns and complications which has
been duely addressed and revised by the authors @Taiwo and
@Anthony for the greater good of the AFRINIC community and
region. </div>
<div class="">There is nothing like sweeping this under the
carpet but rather this legacy status dilemma should have a
dedicated legacy policy of its own or to resolve this legacy
status barrier, having a service level for the legacy holders at
numerous levels based on the fees paid for services is another
way to solve the issue. Either way, the legacy status dilemma
won’t be forgotten or swept under the carpet. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Elvis. <br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Sep 29, 2020, at 10:14, Fernando Frediani
<<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class="">
<p class="">How can the legacy status be out of the
scope if this proposal is exactly changing the
opposite way it has been so far and is in several
other places.<br class="">
We cannot sweep it under the carpet and try to hide
from this topic. If this keeps the way was changed at
the last minute it must be brought back to discussion
as it was a major change that cannot be simply ignored
and "left for later".<br class="">
Fernando<br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 28/09/2020 21:20,
Ibeanusi Elvis wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:7C3789A9-DE7B-465C-B25A-9F859E69939D@gmail.com"
class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8" class="">
Dear Taiwo and everyone,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I believe your revision with the
proposal and also the ejection of the section 5.7.5
will resolve the complications that the proposal
might have brought about as pointed out by some in
the RDP Community. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Likewise, the revision of section
5.7.3.1 from "the compliance with the policies of
receiving RIR” to “in compliance with the relevant
policies”, hence, making the Inter-RIR transfer of
resources smooth and efficient. And as pointed out
the legacy status management is out of the scope of
this policy proposal. The proposal to formulate a
service level for legacy holders at various levels
in accordance with the fees paid is a tremendous
idea. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks. </div>
<div class="">ELVIS. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">Dear Taiwo, </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thank you for your revision,
I think that removing section 5.7.5
solves most of the issues claimed by
some members, it would be better to
leave operational matters to the staff.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Also, I agree that the
legacy status management is out of the
scope of this policy proposal, it would
be appropriate to discuss it on a
different proposal and/or take the RIPE
NCC as evidence/source.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Lucilla</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno
mar 29 set 2020 alle ore 04:42 Taiwo
Oyewande <<a
href="mailto:taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">taiwo.oyewande88@gmail.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">Dear Jordi:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thank you for your
feedback, and both of us have been
taking it seriously.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Please see our reply to
your point:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We agree with your point
that we should make an editorial
change for the following：</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Firstly, for 5.7.3.1,
from </div>
<div class="">The source must be the
current rightful holder of the IPv4
address resources registered with
any RIR, and shall be in compliance
with the policies of the receiving
RIR, and shall not be involved in
any disputes as to the status of
those resources.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">To</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> The source must be the
current and rightful holder of the
IPv4 address resources registered
with any RIR, in compliance with the
relevant policies, and shall not be
involved in any disputes as to those
resources' status.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">And for 5.7.4.1, from </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">A transfer from another
RIR to AFRINIC requires a need-based
evaluation. AFRINIC must approve the
recipient's need for the IPv4 number
resources. In order for an
organization to qualify for
receiving a transfer, it must first
go through the process of justifying
its IPv4 resource needs before
AFRINIC. That is to say, the
organization must justify and
demonstrate before AFRINIC its
initial/additional
allocation/assignment usage, as
applicable, according to the
policies in force. </div>
<div class="">A transfer from AFRINIC
to another RIR must follow the
policy of the receiving RIR.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">To:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">A transfer from another
RIR to AFRINIC requires a need-based
evaluation. AFRINIC must approve the
recipient's need for the IPv4 number
resources. In order for an
organization to qualify for
receiving a transfer, it must first
go through the process of justifying
its IPv4 resource needs before
AFRINIC. That is to say, the
organization must justify and
demonstrate before AFRINIC its
initial/additional
allocation/assignment usage, as
applicable, according to the
policies in force. </div>
<div class="">A transfer from AFRINIC
to another RIR must follow the
relevant policies.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">As for 5.7.3.3 and
5.7.4.2, we do not see the necessity
to remove them, and we believe it
actually makes the policy clearer.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We agree in removing
section 5.7.5, as we recognize that
this is out of the policy's scope,
and operational matters should be
left to the staff.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">And we will also correct
the grammar mistake of 5.7.3.2.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">5.7.3.2 Source entities
are not eligible to receive any
further IPv4 allocations or
assignments from AFRINIC for a
period of twelve (12) months after a
transfer is approved.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">As for the legacy space
part, we believe that at this
moment, compatibility is the most
essential aspect since both ARIN and
RIPE have a transfer policy that
indicates legacy space remains
legacy. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We consider legacy
status management as out of the
scope of this policy proposal. We
suggest you to (or anyone who feels
the need) propose a service level to
legacy holders at different levels
regarding the fees they have been
paying. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If you think this’s
necessary, perhaps you can take
reference from RIPE NCC’s legacy
policy: (see <a
href="https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/legacy-resources/ripe-ncc-services-to-legacy-internet-resource-holders"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/legacy-resources/ripe-ncc-services-to-legacy-internet-resource-holders</a>
), and we hope that you recognize
that this is a minor objection. We
have addressed it by inviting you to
propose a more comprehensive legacy
solution to the community but not
forcefully done in the transfer
policy, just like the other regions
did not.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Should the Chair allow,
we would address the above point
raised by you before passing the
last call.</div>
<br class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Kind regards</div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">On
28 Sep 2020, at 12:37, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt"
class="" lang="EN-US">I
don’t disagree that we need
one. That’s why I was the
first one to work on this
matter. And as said, I will
be happy to support this *<b
class="">one</b>* or *<b
class="">any</b>* proposal
*<b class="">if</b>* it is
functional, not if will make
us waste our time because
other RIRs will say “I’m not
going to use your procedure,
we, the 4 other RIRs have
already one in place. Are
you going to cover our cost
for developing a special
procedure with you?”, not to
say that the text has some
wording that is not
coherent. I just don’t want
to keep repeating my points.
I think they are very
objective.</span></p>
<div class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt"
class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12pt"
class="" lang="EN-US">You
said it, and this is the
wrong part: “chosen”. By the
cochairs, with mistakes that
make it non-functional,
which changes that should
not be done at this time in
the process. Without giving
the other proposals the same
opportunity to change
things. May be then we could
have chosen a different one?</span></p>
<div class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt"
class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-US">The
PDP is not about choosing,
is about reaching
consensus.</span></p>
<div class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="ES-TRAD">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="ES-TRAD">@jordipalet</span></p>
<div style="margin-bottom:
12pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"
class="" lang="ES-TRAD"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt"
class="" lang="ES-TRAD"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt"
class="" lang="ES-TRAD"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt">El
28/9/20 13:26, "Gaby
Giner" <<a
href="mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">gabyginernetwork@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hi
Jordi,</p>
<div class="">
<div style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt">I
think that we need to
funnel our discussion to
the relevant subject for
this proposal. The region
NEEDS an inter RIR
transfer policy, and since
one has already been
chosen, we need to support
it and not distract it
with policies that could
be better off being a
separate policy.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt">As
far as I know, AFRINIC is
a registration entity.
That's it. What
members/clients do with
the resources is not
AFRINIC's business, and
neither is how members
route them. As Lamiaa has
pointed out, once a member
terminates their contract
and changed their
registration, it is out of
the area of responsibility
of AFRINIC how they
route/do with their
resources anymore. I don't
think it's fair to burden
AFRINIC with these
"difficulties" since it's
not in the job description
anymore.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br
class="" clear="all">
</p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt">Thanks,
Gaby</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt">On
Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:01
PM Lamiaa Chnayti <<a
href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-style:none
none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"
class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" class="">Hello Jordi,<br class="">
<br class="">
The salient point here
is that AFRINIC only
manages registration,
not routing. We can
make policies about
registration of space,
but not routing of the
space. <br class="">
<br class="">
If their upstream
decides to route a
space that wasn't
registered to them, it
is entirely in their
upstream's right to do
so. If the operator
chooses to route space
that doesn't belong to
them and their
upstream is okay with
it, it is entirely out
of the AFRINIC
community's scope -
just like any
hijacking is out of
the scope for the
AFRINIC community (the
same reason many have
told you that the
hijacking as policy
violation is out of
scope). <br class="">
<br class="">
From AFRINIC's point
of view, they have
terminated the
contract; they have
changed the
registration. What
happens at the routing
table isn't really
AFRINIC's business nor
their concern anymore.
<br class="">
<br class="">
They do not need to
get anything back;
those spaces can be
allocated to a
different member. It
is entirely up to the
one holding the space
to have other
operators recognize
it. Please do
remember, AFRINIC is
wholly based on the
voluntary cooperation
of operators; if
someone does not
recognize AFRINIC's
database as the
"right" registration
database and then
start one of their
own, they can
definitely do it as it
is entirely within
their rights to do so.
So the difficulty you
were talking about is
really out of the
scope of AFRINIC.</span></p>
<div class="">
<div style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" class="">Regards,</span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" class="">Lamiaa</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt">Le lun.
28 sept. 2020 à 10:03,
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-style:none
none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">Hi
Ekaterina,</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">The
termination of
the contract is
easy, but what
happens if the
operator keeps
using those
resources? How
you enforce it
to stop? What
happens if the
case is brought
to the courts by
any of the
parties? How
much time it
takes? Meanwhile
AFRINIC doesn’t
get the
resources back,
so it is not
able to
redistribute
them. This is
not fantasy: we
have a real case
for millions of
IP addresses
right now in
AFRINIC!</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">How
much is the cost
in terms of
lawyers and wait
time? Who is
using meanwhile
the resources?
The bad guys.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">*<b
class="">Partially</b>*
that may be
resolved if we
have the AS0
proposal, but
even in that
case, that only
works for the
operators using
the AS0 TAL!</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">Even
if the resources
are recovered,
do you
understand that
AFRINIC
procedure is to
quarantine them
for 12 months
before coming
back to the
pool?</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">So,
what is the gain
vs having 12
months hold
time? Easy, with
the 12 months
hold time the
cost is much
lower. I’m not
talking only
about money cost
for AFRINIC in
case of
disputes, human
resources to
tackle them,
etc., but also
the cost of not
being able to
use those
resources during
the recovery
time + the
quarantine
period.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">Again,
that will be
resolved,
allowing to
reduce the
quarantine
period, if we
have the “policy
compliance
dashboard”.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">A
/22 can be
obtained in
AFRINIC just
with a cost of
2.900 USD
(justifying an
end-site, for
example). You
can easily sell
this for 10
times more! So,
it is a very
small investment
for a huge
margin. Just
think if you can
repeat that
every year, or
actually many
times per year,
just creating a
company for
“only that”. How
much it cost in
the cheaper
country in
AFRICA to create
a company? You
don’t need
offices, or
anything like
that, you can
make a “fake” DC
in your home.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">I
don’t think it
is a matter of
the most
“flexible and
open” proposal.
It is about that
one that *<b
class="">really
works</b>* and
is *<b class="">safer</b>*.
If you followed
the discussion
on the first
proposal (the
one that I’ve
presented in
2018, with two
approaches and
several
versions),
across that
discussion *<b
class="">the
community</b>*
asked me to have
a “security seat
belt”, so if
something goes
wrong, it can be
put in hold. I
said it was not
needed, but the
community
insisted, so I
did. Now the
community don’t
want that. This
only shows that
the problem in
developing
policies, is
that depending
“who” is
speaking, the
authors get
crazy at every
version.
However, if the
chairs really
consider only
what are
valid-objections
this will not be
an issue. But
the problem is
that consensus
is being decided
even considering
invalid and
refuted
objections.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">May
be some folks
now understand
better that when
you do policy
proposals, you
need to look *<b
class="">at a
very broad
context</b>*
and not only in
that specific
RIR!</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">It
is impossible
for an author to
explain *<b
class="">all
this</b>* in
each policy
proposal. It is
impossible for
an author to
explain all this
in a *<b
class="">8
minutes</b>*
presentation.
There are *<b
class="">many</b>*
other aspects
that you can’t
realize if
you’re not
operating
networks and
participating in
all the RIRs.
Internet is
global and you
really need to
consider
everything. A
specific region
business and
cultural
details, are
very important
for the policy
making process,
but not
forgetting the
others!</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<div
style="margin-bottom:
12pt;
margin-left:
35.4pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
12pt;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
35.4pt;" class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">El 25/9/20 19:58, "Ekaterina Kalugina" <<a
href="mailto:kay.k.prof@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">kay.k.prof@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">Dear Jordi, dear all,</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">Jordi, could you please elaborate a bit more
on your
statement:
"the cost of
“not-being-able
to use those
resources” for
any number of
providers is
actually
*lower* than
the cost of a
single
recovery
case!" </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">As far as I understood, the recovery is be
achieved
though the
termination of
the contract.
So what
exactly is
included in
the recovery
costs? </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">In regard to your argument on the history of
fraud in all
the RIRs, I do
not believe it
is very
relevant to
the current
discussion for
a simple
reason that
the maximum
allocation
space is
currently /22.
Proving the
need that is
required for
the allocation
would cost
thousands of
dollars, so
there is
simply no
incentive for
businesses to
commit such
fraud. It
would cost
them way too </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">much and bring way to little. </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">In addition, I believe that our focus should
be on passing
the most
flexible and
open transfer
policy to
incentivise
the free flow
of resources
in and out of
the region
that is
necessary for
a steady
economic
development. </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">If there are so many concerns concerning
potential
resource abuse
and fraud,
perhaps a
separate
policy on
fraud
prevention
ought to be
introduced.
Let us not try
to kill all
the possible
birds with one
stone and
instead focus
on solving one
problem per
policy. In my
view, this is
they only way
to ameliorate
the duties of
AFRINIC staff
and ensure the
proper
practical
application of
each policy. </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">Best wishes,</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">Kay </p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;" class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt">On Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 13:14 JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ <<a
href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-style:none
none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6pt;margin:5pt
0cm 5pt 4.8pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">Hi
Ekaterina,</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt">El 24/9/20 12:25, "Ekaterina Kalugina" <<a
href="mailto:kay.k.prof@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">kay.k.prof@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class="">Hey
everyone,</span></p>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class=""> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt"><a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">@JORDI PALET MARTINEZ</a> <span
style="font-size:12pt" class="">you said, and I quote:</span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class="">>"An
ISP will not
need to return
even a /22
because he
loses 1.024
customers as
he can get
them back,
this is very
common
customer churn
in a matter of
weeks (even
days or hours
for big
ISPs)."<br
class="">
<br class="">
In this case,
ISP would not
need to bother
with resource
transfer.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
70.8pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class=""> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">[Jordi]
At the
beginning of
the transfers
in other
regions, I was
*<b class="">against</b>*
that. In my
opinion when
operators
don’t need the
resources,
they should
return them
back to the
RIR. BUT we
all know, that
people is not
so honest, and
this will only
happen in an
utopic and
idealistic
world and
moreover, this
will still
need some
“agreement”
between
different RIRs
to allow those
resources that
are returned
to be
“transferred”
among RIRs.
Due to facts,
afterwards I
realized that
this is a need
for the global
community and
that’s why I
agreed with
those
policies, and
even started
to work on
them as an
author. </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"
class=""
lang="EN-US"><br
class="">
<br class="">
However, I
believe a
situation may
occur when the
ISP is unable
to distribute
the allocated
resources for
whatever
reason. </span><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="">Even if we cannot predict the reason we
must still
account for
such
contingency.
And, in such
case, it does
not make sense
to block these
resources for
12 months from
being
transferred to
a place where
they are
actually
needed. This
would be
detrimental to
everyone
involved. </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">[Jordi]
I don’t agree.
A transfer may
take several
weeks or even
months. It
depends on
many factors,
like the
justification
time among the
RIRs,
providing
documents,
etc. Even if
you discover
that in month
3 after you
have received
a /22, you no
longer need it
(which I doubt
it can be
true), this
means that the
resources will
be “unused”
during other
6-7 months. I
could agree
that the hold
time is just
6-8 months
instead of 12,
but non zero
is difficult,
because the
cost of
“not-being-able
to use those
resources” for
any number of
providers is
actually *<b
class="">lower</b>*
than the cost
of a single
recovery case!</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"
class=""
lang="EN-US"><br
class="">
In regard to
your
statement:<br
class="">
"However, a
“bad guy” will
easily use
that as an
excuse to
transfer the
resources in
days or
weeks."<br
class="">
</span><span
style="font-size:12pt"
class="">Like
Anthony and
Lucilla
mentioned
before, such
action would
be a clear act
of fraud.I do
not see any
reason why
anyone would
willingly
commit such a
violation.
"Bad guys" are
not stupid,
and if someone
wants to take
an advantage
of AFRINIC,
they will, and
I do not think
the 12 months
cap would
prevent that
in any way. </span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">[Jordi]
Just look at
the histories
of frauds in
all the RIRs!
This is real
life. Holding
the resources
for 12 months,
breaks their
business
model. It
makes sense
because it is
quick money
and you can do
it with a very
tiny fraction
of money, once
and again and
again,
rotating among
different
RIRs, etc.</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt"
class=""
lang="EN-US"><br
class="">
The only thing
it would
achieve, in my
view, is slow
down the flow
of resources
and create
stagnations
that could be
more costly
than any
retrieval
procedures in
case of fraud.</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">[Jordi]
To be
objective, we
will need to
get statistics
of “speed” of
transfers
among
different
RIRs, number
of frauds or
fraud
attempts,
etc., etc.,
etc. and many
of those
details
probably are
sensitive and
the RIRs will
not recognize
that, even if
anonymized.
There have
been fraud
cases in RIPE,
which
everybody
knows by word
of mouth, but
it has never
published …</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US"><br
class="">
But of course,
staff
assessment is
needed to have
full clarity
of this issue.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class="">Best,</span></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class="">Kay</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt">On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 9:05 AM Gaby Giner
<<a
href="mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">gabyginernetwork@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-style:none
none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6pt;margin:5pt
0cm 5pt 4.8pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt">Hello guys,</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt">This discussion is very interesting seeing
that it deals
with the most
probable or
likely outcome
with those
that would
want to take
advantage of
the system. We
can only wish
that the
clients would
be completely
honest with
their need,
but of course,
if they are
inclined to
lie, there is
no mechanism
that would
stop them from
doing so. I
would suggest
that the
proposal
include a
means or a way
to
authenticate
the need but
that would be
more trouble
than it is
worth and
would not be
entirely
foolproof. </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt">Since we are dealing with finite and scarce
resources,
it's important
that the way
they are doled
out should be
systematic and
measured and
not just "I
need this. I
need this,
give me this".
Having said
that, I think
having a time
limit would
also cause
traffic for
the "need".
Regardless, as
Lucilla said,
these are
hypothetical
scenarios and
questions but
they may be
worth getting
into.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt">I'm interested in what the staff/authors
would have to
say on this
matter.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt">Thanks, Gaby.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt">On Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 2:59 PM JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via
RPD, <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-style:none
none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6pt;margin:5pt
0cm 5pt 4.8pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">I
mean a
non-realistic
situation. An
ISP will not
need to return
even a /22
because he
loses 1.024
customers as
he can get
them back,
this is very
common
customer churn
in a matter of
weeks (even
days or hours
for big ISPs).</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">However,
a “bad guy”
will easily
use that as an
excuse to
transfer the
resources in
days or weeks.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<div
style="margin-bottom:
12pt;
margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
106.2pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:141.6pt">El 24/9/20 8:29, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via
RPD" <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
141.6pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">Exactly,
if you really
have that
situation you
can return
them and be
fair.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
141.6pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">Anyway,
the example
that I’ve
presented is a
non-realistic
suggestion. It
is not
frequent that
an operator
loses
customers in
such way. It
is just the
perfect excuse
for “bad guys”
to get
resources and
resell them.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
141.6pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">Remember
also that in
the actual
exhaustion
phase, they
can only get a
maximum of a
/22.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
141.6pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<div
style="margin-bottom:
12pt;
margin-left:
141.6pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
141.6pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
141.6pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">El 24/9/20 4:03, "Fernando Frediani" <<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<p
style="margin-left:177pt"
class="">We
can make in
another way:
if someone
justifies and
receives
resources from
AfriNic but
afterwards
realizes
something
changed and
doesn't need
those
addresses
anymore it
must give the
addresses back
to AfriNic so
it can
re-distribute
it in the most
fair way to
any other
organization
who goes
though the
same
justification
process. Why
is it
difficult to
think about
this fairness
with all
others in the
region ?</p>
<p
style="margin-left:177pt"
class="">Fernando</p>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">On 23/09/2020 22:22, lucilla fornaro wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">Hello everyone,</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">I agree with what concerns the problem of the
time limit.
Companies will
refrain from
such behavior
because it is
too risky and
indicative of
possible
fraud.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">Jordi, Considering your example related to the
customers'
loss, I think
that it is
adverse for
the operator
to wait 12
months before
transferring
the addresses.
What is the
point in
holding
addresses that
they will not
be able to use
and deprive
someone else
of further
resources?
What if they
don’t get new
customers?
What if they
lose even more
customers? Too
many
hypothetical
questions,
that is why I
believe it is
more
straightforward
and more
convenient for
everyone to
facilitate the
process.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">I agree that recovery processes are expensive
and
time-consuming,
but we can say
the same for
those unused
resources.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">As well as you, I would like to know the
staff’s view
on this.</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">Regards,</p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">Lucilla </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">Il giorno mer 23 set 2020 alle ore 21:14 JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ
via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
ha scritto:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-style:none
none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6pt;margin:5pt
0cm 5pt 4.8pt"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" class=""
lang="EN-US">Hi
Anthony,</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">I
think *<b
class="">somehow</b>*
you’re right,
clearly I
overlooked
this.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">We
don’t need a
time limit to
transfer
resrources
because that
will be a
demonstration
of the “the
need was not
justified”.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">However,
the problem of
this approach
is that if it
happens, the
staff *<b
class="">will
need to start
a recovery
process</b>*
which is long,
costly and a
big trouble.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">What
happens if the
*<b class="">false</b>*
justification
for the
transfer is: I
had the need 6
months ago,
but then I
lost customers
and now I
don’t need
anymore the
space, so I’m
transfering
it.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">What
happens if the
same operator,
repeat that
after another
6 months?
There are ways
to one and
again *<b
class="">justify
the need</b>*
and it is,
instead, very
dificult for
the staff to
act on the RSA
for recovery
and member
closure in
those cases.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">On
the other way
around, what
is the
“objection” if
we have that
hold time? I
can only see
one: If the
example above
(I lost
customers)
happens, the
operator need
to wait until
month 12
before
transfering
the addresses.
Is that really
so bad? Or it
is good
because he may
get new
customers
again?</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">I
think the
trade-off is
to have a good
balance and
ensure that we
avoid this
happening and
requiring the
staff to
invest
resources in
an
investigation
and recovery.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">Could
the staff
provide a view
on this?</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">Regarding
the legacy.
Yes, ARIN and
RIPE don’t
have it (I
think APNIC
has it, LACNIC
definitively
has it).
AFRINIC has it
right now. We
are removing a
very good
thing.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">Why
it is so good?
Because legacy
holders aren’t
bound to the
RIRs RSAs, so
that’s
extremely bad
for the
overall
community.
They don’t pay
for *<b
class="">services</b>*
that all the
RIRs are doing
for them, so
all the
members are
covering that
part of the
cost. They’re
not bound to
RIR policies,
so they can
break the
rules of the
community all
the time and
we have no way
to react on
that.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">I
don’t agree on
the point of
the disputed
resources,
I’ve the
feeling that
somehow in the
process of
editing the
v2, it was
removed by
mistake and we
should have it
back. The
difference in
between
rightful
holder and
having a
dispute, is
depending on
who is saying
that, in case
of a dispute.
I will love
also to have
the staff
opinion on
that.</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">As
well, can the
impact
analysis be
made clear? Is
that all fine
for the staff
after having
checked with
authors each
point?</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">Please,
let’s make
this happen!</span></p>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:177pt"><span style="font-size:
12pt;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<div
style="margin-bottom:
12pt;
margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size: 12pt;" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:12pt" class="" lang="EN-US"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:212.4pt">El 21/9/20 18:10, "Anthony Ubah" <<a
href="mailto:ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin-left:
212.4pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:212.4pt">Hello Jordi,<br class="">
<br class="">
We can sight
an instance
with APNIC as
a case study.
APNIC has a
transfer
policy that
doesn’t have a
time limit for
retransferring
resources and
time proves to
us that it
works.<br
class="">
<br class="">
According to
APNIC, the act
of buying
space and
reselling it
right after
the purchase
seems to be
highly
unlikely
because of two
reasons.<br
class="">
<br class="">
First of all,
most companies
buy space for
their own use,
and hence a
commodity
trading type
of business
doesn’t exist
in the IP
space
involved.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Secondly,
since the
buyer is
required to
justify the
need of a
12-month
usage, if
he/she engages
in an activity
such as buying
the space and
then reselling
it right
after, this
indicative of
fraud because
it contravenes
the “NEED”
which is a
prerequisite
for receiving
such space.
This simply
implies that
the so-called
“NEED” which
they provided
was fake.
Hence,
companies will
refrain from
engaging in
such
behaviour.<br
class="">
<br class="">
As for the
legacy
transfer, I
believe both
ARIN and RIPE
have the cases
of a
transferred
legacy space
remained as a
legacy. APNIC
may be
different, but
I think this
is just a
different sort
of opinion and
should not be
read as an
objection.
Also, what
matters the
most is that
if we follow
ARIN, we can
receive space
from them.
Definitely
this is a
significant
advantage.<br
class="">
<br class="">
As for the
disputed
resources,
since AFRINIC
have to know
who the
rightful
holder of the
spaces are
before
transferring
them. I don’t
think this
would be a
concern
because
AFRINIC is not
able to
initiate a
transfer for
space that is
under dispute.
However, this
is a legal
matter and is
already out of
the scope of
the policy.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Best Regards,</p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
style="margin-left:212.4pt;line-height:150%"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Garamond,serif"
class="">Anthony
Ubah</span></b></p>
<p
style="margin-left:212.4pt;line-height:150%"
class=""><span
style="font-family:Garamond,serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)" class="">E-mail:
</span><a
href="mailto:anthony.ubah@gloworld.com"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:Garamond,serif"
class="">anthony.ubah@goldspine.com</span></a><span
style="font-family:Garamond,serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)" class="">.ng</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
212.4pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
style="margin-left:
212.4pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:212.4pt">On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:00 AM <<a
href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-style:none
none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm
0cm 0cm
6pt;margin:5pt
0cm 5pt 4.8pt"
class="">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:212.4pt">Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br
class="">
<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
To subscribe
or unsubscribe
via the World
Wide Web,
visit<br
class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
class="">
or, via email,
send a message
with subject
or body 'help'
to<br class="">
<a
href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
You can reach
the person
managing the
list at<br
class="">
<a
href="mailto:rpd-owner@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd-owner@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
When replying,
please edit
your Subject
line so it is
more specific<br
class="">
than "Re:
Contents of
RPD digest..."<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Today's
Topics:<br
class="">
<br class="">
1.
AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02
- Resource
Transfer
Policy<br
class="">
(JORDI
PALET
MARTINEZ)<br
class="">
2. Re:
Abuse Contact
Policy (JORDI
PALET
MARTINEZ)<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br
class="">
<br class="">
Message: 1<br
class="">
Date: Mon, 21
Sep 2020
10:34:13 +0200<br
class="">
From: JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ
<<a
href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br
class="">
To: rpd List
<<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br
class="">
Subject: [rpd]
AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02 - Resource Transfer Policy<br class="">
Message-ID:
<<a
href="mailto:8873E491-A0A7-4506-A490-13C6B6E67A7D@consulintel.es"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">8873E491-A0A7-4506-A490-13C6B6E67A7D@consulintel.es</a>><br
class="">
Content-Type:
text/plain;
charset="utf-8"<br
class="">
<br class="">
Hi all,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
I will be
happy to
support this
proposal and
withdraw my
own one, but
*before* I?ve
some questions
about this
decision that
need to be
addressed
first (see
below,
in-line).<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
10. Resource
Transfer
Policy<br
class="">
<br class="">
This proposal
aims to
introduce
Inter RIR
transfer.
However, it
has the
following
opposition <br
class="">
<br class="">
a.
Issues
with Legacy
holder
transfer is
potentially
considered
none-reciprocal
by ARIN<br
class="">
<br class="">
b.
Potential
abuse of
AFRINIC free
pool without
the time limit
of receiving
an allocation
from AFRINIC.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Chairs
Decision: The
proposal is
the least
contested of
all the 3
competing
proposals.
However
because of the
community?s
desire and
clear
expression for
the need for
an Inter RIR
transfer, we,
the Co-chairs,
believe that
in the
interest of
the community
we should
focus on a
proposal
rather than
several
similar ones.
This desire
was clearly
expressed at
the AFRINIC 31
meeting in
Angola.
Therefore, We
suggest that
the authors of
this proposal
make the
following
amendments: <br
class="">
<br class="">
?
5.7.3.2
Source
entities are
not eligible
to receive
further IPv4
allocations or
assignments
from AFRINIC
for 12 months
period after
the transfer.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
[Jordi] This
is perfect,
and in fact is
what I?ve.
Just different
timing to
match phase 2
window x 2,
but not a big
issue.
However, we
are missing
something that
was also
objected by
the community
and I think is
key to avoid
abuse. Actual
text in the
CPM ?5.7.3.3
Source
entities must
not have
received a
transfer,
allocation, or
assignment of
IPv4 number
resources from
AFRINIC for
the 12 months
prior to the
approval of
transfer
request. This
restriction
excludes
mergers and
acquisitions
transfers.?.
This is no
longer
considered by
this proposal,
and in my
opinion it is
a MUST.
Doesn?t make
any sense that
someone is
getting
resources from
AFRINIC and
being able to
transfer them
immediately!
Can please the
chairs also
address this
point.<br
class="">
<br class="">
[Jordi] Can
the staff
explain the
consequences
from their
perspective if
we don?t have
such text or
something
similar? Is
even possible
that the board
will not
ratify the
policy because
that, and we
are wasting a
previous time?<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
?
5.7.4.3.
Transferred
legacy
resources will
still be
regarded as
legacy
resources.<br
class="">
<br class="">
[Jordi] This
is also a
major issue.
I?m not sure
if the chairs
have
understood
what was the
point about
lack of
reciprocity.
We can?t
enforce ARIN
to accept that
outgoing (to
ARIN from
AFRINIC)
resources will
no longer be
legacy.
However the
actual CPM
states
?5.7.4.3
Transferred
IPv4 legacy
resources will
no longer be
regarded as
legacy
resources.?.
We must keep
that, because
we should
avoid legacy
resources to
keep being
legacy as much
as possible,
because they
are NOT BIND
to the CPM. If
we accept the
chairs
proposal, we
are going
*backwards*
not forward
and we may be
creating a
discrimination
with already
done transfers
within AFRINIC
(Intra-RIR,
according to
the current
policy). The
right text
here must be
?Transferred
incoming or
within AFRINIC
IPv4 legacy
resources will
no longer be
regarded as
legacy
resources?.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
[Jordi]
Finally, there
were several
severe
comments from
the staff that
need to be
addressed. For
example,
resources
under dispute.
That?s a big
issue! There
are a few
others. I
think here we
need to see if
the staff got
everything
clear from the
authors inputs
and if the
policy can be
implemented or
there will be
open questions
that will not
allow to be a
functional
policy and
again, even
disallow the
board to
ratify it.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Chairs
Decision:
Provided that
the above are
amended, the
decisions is
Rough
Consensus is
achieved
<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br
class="">
<br class="">
Jordi<br
class="">
<br class="">
@jordipalet<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
**********************************************<br class="">
IPv4 is over<br
class="">
Are you ready
for the new
Internet ?<br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.theipv6company.com/"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br
class="">
The IPv6
Company<br
class="">
<br class="">
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The
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<br class="">
Message: 2<br
class="">
Date: Mon, 21
Sep 2020
11:00:01 +0200<br
class="">
From: JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ
<<a
href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br
class="">
To: <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br
class="">
Subject: Re:
[rpd] Abuse
Contact Policy<br
class="">
Message-ID:
<<a
href="mailto:491C1297-8C2D-4939-B339-EDAA80334B24@consulintel.es"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">491C1297-8C2D-4939-B339-EDAA80334B24@consulintel.es</a>><br
class="">
Content-Type:
text/plain;
charset="utf-8"<br
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<br class="">
Hi Lamiaa,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
8.3 and 8.4
are making
sure that you
respond to an
abuse case,
*not* that you
*recognize* it
as an abuse.
It is your
choice to tell
the ?victim
ISP?, look for
me this is not
an abuse, so I
will not do
anything about
it.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
AFRINIC can?t
verify this
automatically,
because it
doesn?t make
sense that
AFRINIC is
?sending? fake
abuse reports
to see if they
get a
response.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
AFRINIC can
only send an
email for the
validation of
the mailbox.
It is an
existing
mailbox? I?m
getting a
response (for
example, have
they, once I
send the
validation
email, clicked
the link or
went into
MyAfrinic to
input the
validation
code?).<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
8.4 also
states the
timing for the
validation.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
8.5 is the
validation
itself, so I
guess,
according to
your response,
that you?re ok
with this
specific
point. If we
don?t have it,
AFRINIC can?t
do a periodic
validation.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
8.6. is making
sure that you
don?t try to
fake the
validation.
For instance,
you could
respond only
to AFRINIC
validations
and then
discard all
the other
emails. If we
don?t have
that, the
policy may
become
useless. Note
also that in
fact, if you
follow the
RSA, *anyone*
could escalate
*any* lack of
CPM
compliance. So
this is making
sure that the
policy text is
honest and
transparent.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Or do you
prefer to be
filtered
because you
don?t respond?<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Clearly this
proposal is
not asking
AFRINIC to be
a police. Is
only making
sure that the
parties *can
talk*. Again:
AFRINIC will
not be
involved in
?how you
handle the
case?, but I
least you
should be able
to be
contacted and
respond.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
See this
example:<br
class="">
<br class="">
If AK or Moses
customers are
sending me
spam, or
trying to
intrude my
network, and
they have
abuse
contacts, I
will be able
to complain to
them. Then we
have two
cases:<br
class="">
<br class="">
1. Moses
responds to me
and say
?you?re right,
this is
against our
AUP? (is
irrelevant
what the law
in Moses
country say,
it is the
contract with
customers what
says what is
allowed or
not). Let?s
fix it. I will
warn the
customer, and
if they don?t
stop, we will
filter their
email port, or
even cancel
the contract
(just
examples, only
Moses can
decide what
they do).<br
class="">
<br class="">
2. AK
instead
doesn?t care,
or the mailbox
is full or
bouncing
emails or
respond ?sorry
in our network
we allow
that?. Then I
can take my
own decision,
filter only
that IP
address, or
the complete
AK network. I
can even see
if this is
allowed in his
country and
take legal
actions (which
usually you
don?t do
because is
costly and
more of the
regulations
don?t know
?anything?
about abuse or
even
Internet!).<br
class="">
<br class="">
AFRINIC will
not take any
measure if AK
decides that
is not an
abuse. It is
our problem
not AFRINIC
problem.
However, if
the email is
bouncing,
AFRINIC will
revalidate the
abuse-c and
make sure that
it works.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Is like a
phone book.
You have there
the phones and
they must be
correct, or
you need to
update them
every ?n?
months. The
phone book
doesn?t tell
the purpose of
each phone. If
you don?t want
to accept
calls related
to ?ordering
pizzas?, you
tell the
caller ?this
number is not
for that?, but
at least you
must pick up
the phone
otherwise, you
don?t know if
it is somebody
calling by
error or
someone that
you really
want to talk.
And this is
true for
*every* whois
contact.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Can you let us
know how do
you handle it
in the
networks that
you operate?<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br
class="">
<br class="">
Jordi<br
class="">
<br class="">
@jordipalet<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
El 21/9/20
10:00, "Lamiaa
Chnayti" <<a
href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>>
escribi?:<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi Fernando, <br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
I think you
are very
confused. I
never said I
have a problem
with people
completing
their
registration.
Keep
registration---having
an abuse
contact Email
in the whois,
just like tech
contact or
admin
contact--I am
perfectly fine
with it, and I
think the
current policy
achieves 99%
it, if you
want to add
this contact
as mandatory
field I am
fine with it
as well.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
But the
problem of
this policy in
8.3-8.6, is
that it
requires
AFRINIC to
monitor the
members HOW to
manage their
abuse mailbox
down to the
subject line,
and that is
out of the
scope of
AFRINIC, just
read my last
email with
logic in mind
and you will
understand. I
suggest this
policy should
be very
simple,
adding one
line to the
current
policy-- abuse
contact is
mandatory, and
it's done,
everything
else should be
deleted.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
And again, you
are trying to
use AFRINIC
for something
that is not in
its scope, how
someone
manages their
mailbox is not
in the scope
of AFRINIC, it
is like you go
to your local
church to ask
them to arrest
your neighbour
who plays loud
music at night
when you
should go to
police
instead. Same
thing for
someone
running an
abusive
network, as
many already
stated, it is
up to a local
Jury to decide
if it is
simply at an
annoying level
or a criminal
offense, but
either way
please do go
to your local
police to
report it.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
As for the
internet, we
never tell you
how to
behave--you
are entirely
at your rights
in the
internet to
behave
abusively, but
it is also
entirely in
everyone's
rights to
block you,
that's how
de-centralizing
works, no
central
governing,
everyone plays
nice because
that's the
only way for
everyone else
to play with
you, and this
policy here
asks AFRINIC
to act like a
central
government
even down to
manage
people's
mailbox's
subject line
and that is
way beyond
what internet
meant to be.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Lamiaa<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Le dim. 20
sept. 2020 ?
23:42,
Fernando
Frediani <<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
a ?crit :<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
On 19/09/2020
13:19, Lamiaa
Chnayti wrote:<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<clip><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
How is it in
the scope of
AFRINIC to
decide how I
manage my
abuse mailbox?
If I want to
reply only to
a specific
subject line
of my abuse
box, it is
entirely in my
right to do.
Even if I
don't want to
reply at the
abuse mailbox
at all, that
is my right to
do so and if I
think no
action in my
network would
be considered
abuse
(although
unlikely), but
it is still
from the
internet
community
point of view,
entirely in my
right to do
so. You might
choose to
block me as a
network, but
that is also
your right. <br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
The reason
internet is
called
INTER-NET is
because of its
decentralized
nature, you
have to play
nice for
others to play
with you, but
this community
never forces
anyone to play
nice, it is
not in the
scope of
AFRINIC to
decide how
members reply
to their abuse
mailbox, so if
8.3,8.4, 8.5
and 8.6 are
deleted in its
entirety, I
might consider
supporting it.
Also Jordi, I
feel you
always have
this central
management
type of
thinking, and
that is so not
internet.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
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<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
It is not in
the scope of
any RIR how
anyone manage
people's<br
class="">
<br class="">
mailboxes.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Nobody exists
alone in the
Internet. If
an
organization<br
class="">
<br class="">
hypothetically
doesn't care
at all and
refuses to
respond to
abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
emails it
probably
should
re-think its
existence in
the Internet<br
class="">
<br class="">
business.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
The Internet
is what is
among many
reasons
because of the<br
class="">
<br class="">
cooperation
among its
organizations,
and there are
certain rules<br
class="">
<br class="">
that are
agreed
cooperatively
and must be
observed by
everyone<br
class="">
<br class="">
willing remain
on it,
otherwise it
may in many
cases cause
serious<br
class="">
<br class="">
damage to
those willing
to operate in
serious manner
and keep it a<br
class="">
<br class="">
healthy place
to most people
who depend on
it.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
This forum is
about setting
rules on how
registration
information<br
class="">
<br class="">
about
resources are
kept and it
may be of the
wish of the<br
class="">
<br class="">
community to
refuse keep
registration
for those who
repetitively<br
class="">
<br class="">
abuse of their
individual
rights.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Fernando<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Lamiaa<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
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<br class="">
<br class="">
Le ven. 18
sept. 2020 ?
09:23,<br
class="">
<br class="">
JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via
RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a ?crit :<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi Lamiaa,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
I don?t agree.
Internet
doesn't depend
on<br class="">
<br class="">
any
jurisdiction;
abuse is about
what I (the
victim<br
class="">
<br class="">
operator)
consider
abuse. The RFC
is clear about
that,<br
class="">
<br class="">
in short
?Inappropriate
public
behaviour? (is
a<br class="">
<br class="">
mailbox so to
be able to
contact in
case there is
a<br class="">
<br class="">
possible
inappropriate
behaviour in
the public<br
class="">
<br class="">
Internet). If
you want a
clearer
definition,
abuse is<br
class="">
<br class="">
*anything*
that I don?t
want to accept
in my<br
class="">
<br class="">
network
because is in
any way
damaging it.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
If I don?t
want to accept
a DoS, or
spam,<br
class="">
<br class="">
or phising,
DMCA, or
whatever, this
is abuse *for<br
class="">
<br class="">
me*. I?ve the
right to tell
you because
that<br
class="">
<br class="">
abuse is
coming from
your network.
If you believe
that<br
class="">
<br class="">
is not abuse
(and here is
your
jurisdiction
in some<br
class="">
<br class="">
cases, in
other just
doesn?t exist,
but it may be
also<br
class="">
<br class="">
your
?business?
decision ?
like operators
that don?t<br
class="">
<br class="">
care if their
customers do
spam or
intrusion<br
class="">
<br class="">
attempts),
you?ve the
right to tell
me ?sorry,
this is<br
class="">
<br class="">
not abuse for
us?, and then
I?ve the right
to decide<br
class="">
<br class="">
if I should
filter your
network based
on your<br
class="">
<br class="">
response.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Not having an
abuse contact,
means that<br
class="">
<br class="">
I?m not able
to contact
you, so we
can?t talk, we<br
class="">
<br class="">
can?t
investigate or
agree if it is
an abuse or
not,<br
class="">
<br class="">
so you (the
offender
operator)
don?t have the
chance<br
class="">
<br class="">
to decide
about it! Is
bad for you,
is bad for me.
In<br class="">
<br class="">
those cases,
my best choice
is to filter
you. This<br
class="">
<br class="">
create
problems for
your customers
and my
customers.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
We can?t
depend on
jurisdictions,
because<br
class="">
<br class="">
then the
policy will
need to
consider
inter-relations<br
class="">
<br class="">
among every
possible
?pairs? of
country
worlds, and we<br
class="">
<br class="">
will need to
update the
policy based
on any<br
class="">
<br class="">
jurisdiction
change. The
policy is not
about that, is<br
class="">
<br class="">
about having a
valid
responsible
contact, not
about<br
class="">
<br class="">
deciding what
is an abuse,
which is among
the two<br
class="">
<br class="">
parties.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Tell me what
is different
from AFRINIC<br
class="">
<br class="">
than the rest
of the world,
because none
of the RIRs<br
class="">
<br class="">
have defined
abuse in their
policies. I
even don?t<br
class="">
<br class="">
recall that
having
appeared in
the
discussions!<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
If<br class="">
<br class="">
you want, I?m
happy to
change the
title of the<br
class="">
<br class="">
proposal to
?supposed
abuse
contact?, that
may be<br
class="">
<br class="">
clearing your
point?<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Again,<br
class="">
<br class="">
this is not
about defining
what is abuse,
this is<br
class="">
<br class="">
among the
parties. It is
about making
sure that<br
class="">
<br class="">
there is a
valid
responsible
contact in
case of<br
class="">
<br class="">
anyone needs
to report what
he considers
an abuse.<br
class="">
<br class="">
AFRINIC will
not punish
anyone that
believes that<br
class="">
<br class="">
his customer
is not doing
an abuse
because in his<br
class="">
<br class="">
country is not
an abuse.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Jordi<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
@jordipalet<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
El<br class="">
<br class="">
18/9/20 9:59,
"Lamiaa
Chnayti" <<a
href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>><br
class="">
<br class="">
escribi?:<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Hello<br
class="">
<br class="">
Jordi,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
RFC2142<br
class="">
<br class="">
only defines a
tiny portion
of the network
abuse. In<br
class="">
<br class="">
real world
operation,
abuse consists
of a much<br
class="">
<br class="">
boarder range
: DMCA(copy
rights)
claims,<br
class="">
<br class="">
unsolicited
emails ,
phishing
websites ,
trade mark<br
class="">
<br class="">
disputes etc.
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
All<br
class="">
<br class="">
those are
legal issues
that vary
vastly across<br
class="">
<br class="">
different
juridictions
in which no
one but each
of<br class="">
<br class="">
the
juridiction?s
judges can
decide if it
is an<br
class="">
<br class="">
abuse or an
illegal
activity.
Claiming that
RFC2142<br
class="">
<br class="">
defines not
even 1% of
real world
abuse is<br
class="">
<br class="">
laughable.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Lamiaa<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Le jeu.<br
class="">
<br class="">
17 sept. 2020
? 15:51, JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ
via<br
class="">
<br class="">
RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br
class="">
<br class="">
a ?crit :<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi<br class="">
<br class="">
Lamiaa,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
I?ve<br
class="">
<br class="">
said this
already. This
policy doesn?t<br
class="">
<br class="">
enforce abuse,
it enforces
that the abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
contact is
there, and
works.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Today<br
class="">
<br class="">
AFRINIC is
paying for the
cost of the<br
class="">
<br class="">
abuse handling
because only a
tiny<br
class="">
<br class="">
fraction of
the members
has the abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
contacts in
place.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
If<br class="">
<br class="">
the contacts
in the RIR
database
aren?t<br
class="">
<br class="">
actual and
accurate, this
is a clear<br
class="">
<br class="">
violation of
the RSA. So
what is<br
class="">
<br class="">
unacceptable
is not having
the contacts,<br
class="">
<br class="">
not on the
other way
around.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
is not defined
by the RIRs,
everybody<br
class="">
<br class="">
knows it and
this is the
reason why
NONE<br
class="">
<br class="">
of the RIRs
have
re-defined it,
because it<br
class="">
<br class="">
is already
stated in
RFC2142. Can
you<br
class="">
<br class="">
justify why
AFRINIC is
different and
need<br
class="">
<br class="">
a definition?<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
How<br
class="">
<br class="">
you define it
in the
networks that
you<br
class="">
<br class="">
operate?<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Jordi<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
@jordipalet<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
El 17/9/20<br
class="">
<br class="">
10:49, "Lamiaa
Chnayti" <<a
href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>><br
class="">
<br class="">
escribi?:<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Hello,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
I<br class="">
<br class="">
will have to
agree with
Lucilla on
what<br
class="">
<br class="">
she said and
would like to
add to it<br
class="">
<br class="">
that :<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Firstly, Abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
enforcement is
out of scope
for RIRs.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Secondly, RIRs<br
class="">
<br class="">
have no
ability to
define what is<br
class="">
<br class="">
?abuse?, one
abuse or even
criminal<br
class="">
<br class="">
activity could
be entirely a
legal<br
class="">
<br class="">
operation in a
different
jurisdiction.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Finally,
making<br
class="">
<br class="">
a member
forcefully
reply to abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
contact Emails
are a waste of
resources<br
class="">
<br class="">
and totally
pointless, it
is entirely up<br
class="">
<br class="">
to the member
to define what
they think<br
class="">
<br class="">
is acceptable
in their
network
operation<br
class="">
<br class="">
and how they
react to it.
AFRINIC has no<br
class="">
<br class="">
mandate to
force any
member to
reply to<br
class="">
<br class="">
an ?abuse?,
since AFRINIC
doesn?t even<br
class="">
<br class="">
have the
ability to
identify what
is<br class="">
<br class="">
considered an
abuse.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Therefore the<br
class="">
<br class="">
entire policy
is out of
scope for the<br
class="">
<br class="">
RIR operation.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Lamiaa<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Le jeu. 17<br
class="">
<br class="">
sept. 2020 ?
07:42, JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ<br
class="">
<br class="">
via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br
class="">
<br class="">
a ?crit :<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi Lucilla,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Today we
already have<br
class="">
<br class="">
mnt-IRT, and
everybody who
operate<br
class="">
<br class="">
networks
understand
what it is an<br
class="">
<br class="">
abuse. If you
operate
networks you<br
class="">
<br class="">
know that
*anything*
which<br
class="">
<br class="">
is a
non-authorized
use of a<br
class="">
<br class="">
network is an
abuse.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
If you send
spam,<br
class="">
<br class="">
attack
networks, try
to intrude<br
class="">
<br class="">
networks,
etc., all
those are<br
class="">
<br class="">
abuse.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
What the
policy ask<br
class="">
<br class="">
is to make
sure that in
AFRINIC<br
class="">
<br class="">
everybody has
an abuse
contact<br
class="">
<br class="">
(today we have
mnt-IRT, but
is not<br
class="">
<br class="">
mandatory, and
as a results
many<br
class="">
<br class="">
African
networks are
filtered<br
class="">
<br class="">
because lack
of that ? and<br
class="">
<br class="">
consequently
they do not
respond<br
class="">
<br class="">
to abuse cases
-, which exist
in<br class="">
<br class="">
all the other
regions of the<br
class="">
<br class="">
world).<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Not having an
abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
means more
chances of
legal<br
class="">
<br class="">
actions, more
cost, for both
the<br
class="">
<br class="">
victims and
the ISPs.
Having<br
class="">
<br class="">
that means
that you have
more<br
class="">
<br class="">
chances to
resolve it in<br
class="">
<br class="">
goodfaith.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
One of the
*most<br
class="">
<br class="">
important*
Afrinic<br
class="">
<br class="">
missions is to
have accuracy
on<br class="">
<br class="">
the database,
which includes<br
class="">
<br class="">
accuracy on
the contacts.
We are<br
class="">
<br class="">
not fulfilling
that in this<br
class="">
<br class="">
situation.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Remember that
*all*<br
class="">
<br class="">
the other RIRs
have already
this<br
class="">
<br class="">
kind of
policy. This
one is like<br
class="">
<br class="">
the one that
has been<br
class="">
<br class="">
implemented in
APNIC, and the<br
class="">
<br class="">
accuracy of
the contacts
is now<br
class="">
<br class="">
87.5% as
reported this
month in<br
class="">
<br class="">
the last APNIC
meeting. In
that<br
class="">
<br class="">
report *none*
of the<br
class="">
<br class="">
members
indicated any
of the<br
class="">
<br class="">
issues that
you indicated<br
class="">
<br class="">
(didn't
happened as
well in the<br
class="">
<br class="">
other
regions).<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
You know who
is<br class="">
<br class="">
interested in
not having
abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
contacts?
Those that use
their<br
class="">
<br class="">
networks for
doing abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
(hijacking,
spam, DoS,<br
class="">
<br class="">
intrusions,
etc.).<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Can you
explain if<br
class="">
<br class="">
the network
that you
operate has<br
class="">
<br class="">
an abuse
contact an how
if one<br
class="">
<br class="">
of your
customes is
trying to<br
class="">
<br class="">
penetrate my
network or do
a<br class="">
<br class="">
DoS, I will be
able to
contact<br
class="">
<br class="">
you and if you
will do
anything<br
class="">
<br class="">
or just ignore
it?<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Jordi<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
@jordipalet<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
El<br class="">
<br class="">
17/9/20 2:21,
"lucilla
fornaro"<br
class="">
<br class="">
<<a
href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>><br
class="">
<br class="">
escribi?:<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Dear<br
class="">
<br class="">
all,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
I<br class="">
<br class="">
have some
concerns about
the<br
class="">
<br class="">
?Abuse Contact
Policy?.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
First<br
class="">
<br class="">
of all, it
does not offer
a<br class="">
<br class="">
specific and
regulated<br
class="">
<br class="">
description of
the term<br
class="">
<br class="">
?abuse? and
this opens the<br
class="">
<br class="">
door to
potentially
bigger<br
class="">
<br class="">
problems: a
surplus of<br
class="">
<br class="">
reports,
discrimination/legal<br
class="">
<br class="">
issues, and a
waste of<br
class="">
<br class="">
resources.
Around the
world,<br
class="">
<br class="">
we can
perceive what
abuse is<br
class="">
<br class="">
in very
different
ways.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Afrinic<br
class="">
<br class="">
is not
entitled to
force<br
class="">
<br class="">
members to
report abuses
and<br
class="">
<br class="">
most
importantly,
this<br
class="">
<br class="">
proposal does
not represent<br
class="">
<br class="">
Afrinic?s
purpose.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
I,<br class="">
<br class="">
therefore,
oppose this
policy.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Thank<br
class="">
<br class="">
you,<br
class="">
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Lucilla <br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
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<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
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offense, so
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<br class="">
exclusive use
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named above<br
class="">
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authorized<br
class="">
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class="">
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the contents
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even if<br
class="">
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partially,
including
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considered a<br
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criminal
offense. If
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the intended<br
class="">
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recipient be
aware that any
disclosure,<br
class="">
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copying,
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or use of the
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class="">
<br class="">
of this
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even if
partially,<br
class="">
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including
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class="">
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prohibited,
will be
considered a
criminal<br
class="">
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offense, so
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to the
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class="">
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sender to
inform about
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class="">
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target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
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class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
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<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Le jeu.<br
class="">
<br class="">
17 sept. 2020
? 15:49, JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ
via<br
class="">
<br class="">
RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br
class="">
<br class="">
a ?crit :<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi<br class="">
<br class="">
Lamiaa,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
I?ve<br
class="">
<br class="">
said this
already. This
policy doesn?t<br
class="">
<br class="">
enforce abuse,
it enforces
that the abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
contact is
there, and
works.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Today<br
class="">
<br class="">
AFRINIC is
paying for the
cost of the
abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
handling
because only a
tiny fraction
of the<br
class="">
<br class="">
members has
the abuse
contacts in
place.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
If the<br
class="">
<br class="">
contacts in
the RIR
database
aren?t actual<br
class="">
<br class="">
and accurate,
this is a
clear
violation of<br
class="">
<br class="">
the RSA. So
what is
unacceptable
is not<br
class="">
<br class="">
having the
contacts, not
on the other
way<br
class="">
<br class="">
around.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Abuse is<br
class="">
<br class="">
not defined by
the RIRs,
everybody
knows it<br
class="">
<br class="">
and this is
the reason why
NONE of the
RIRs<br
class="">
<br class="">
have
re-defined it,
because it is
already<br
class="">
<br class="">
stated in
RFC2142. Can
you justify
why<br
class="">
<br class="">
AFRINIC is
different and
need a
definition?<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
How you<br
class="">
<br class="">
define it in
the networks
that you
operate?<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Jordi<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
@jordipalet<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
El 17/9/20<br
class="">
<br class="">
10:49, "Lamiaa
Chnayti" <<a
href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>><br
class="">
<br class="">
escribi?:<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Hello,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
I<br class="">
<br class="">
will have to
agree with
Lucilla on
what<br
class="">
<br class="">
she said and
would like to
add to it that<br
class="">
<br class="">
:<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Firstly, Abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
enforcement is
out of scope
for RIRs.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Secondly, RIRs<br
class="">
<br class="">
have no
ability to
define what is
?abuse?,<br
class="">
<br class="">
one abuse or
even criminal
activity could<br
class="">
<br class="">
be entirely a
legal
operation in a<br
class="">
<br class="">
different
jurisdiction.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Finally,
making<br
class="">
<br class="">
a member
forcefully
reply to abuse
contact<br
class="">
<br class="">
Emails are a
waste of
resources and<br
class="">
<br class="">
totally
pointless, it
is entirely up
to<br class="">
<br class="">
the member to
define what
they think is<br
class="">
<br class="">
acceptable in
their network
operation and<br
class="">
<br class="">
how they react
to it. AFRINIC
has no<br
class="">
<br class="">
mandate to
force any
member to
reply to an<br
class="">
<br class="">
?abuse?, since
AFRINIC
doesn?t even
have<br
class="">
<br class="">
the ability to
identify what
is considered<br
class="">
<br class="">
an abuse.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Therefore the<br
class="">
<br class="">
entire policy
is out of
scope for the
RIR<br
class="">
<br class="">
operation.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Lamiaa<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Le jeu. 17<br
class="">
<br class="">
sept. 2020 ?
07:42, JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ<br
class="">
<br class="">
via RPD <<a
href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br
class="">
<br class="">
a ?crit :<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi<br class="">
<br class="">
Lucilla,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Today<br
class="">
<br class="">
we already
have mnt-IRT,
and<br
class="">
<br class="">
everybody who
operate
networks<br
class="">
<br class="">
understand
what it is an
abuse. If<br
class="">
<br class="">
you operate
networks you
know that
*anything*<br
class="">
<br class="">
which is a
non-authorized
use of a<br
class="">
<br class="">
network is an
abuse.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
If<br class="">
<br class="">
you send spam,
attack
networks, try<br
class="">
<br class="">
to intrude
networks,
etc., all
those<br
class="">
<br class="">
are abuse.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
What<br
class="">
<br class="">
the policy ask
is to make
sure that<br
class="">
<br class="">
in AFRINIC
everybody has
an abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
contact (today
we have
mnt-IRT, but<br
class="">
<br class="">
is not
mandatory, and
as a results<br
class="">
<br class="">
many African
networks are
filtered<br
class="">
<br class="">
because lack
of that ? and<br
class="">
<br class="">
consequently
they do not
respond to<br
class="">
<br class="">
abuse cases -,
which exist in
all<br
class="">
<br class="">
the other
regions of the
world).<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Not having an
abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
means more
chances of
legal<br
class="">
<br class="">
actions, more
cost, for both
the<br
class="">
<br class="">
victims and
the ISPs.
Having that<br
class="">
<br class="">
means that you
have more
chances<br
class="">
<br class="">
to resolve it
in goodfaith.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
One of the
*most<br
class="">
<br class="">
important*
Afrinic
missions<br
class="">
<br class="">
is to have
accuracy on
the<br
class="">
<br class="">
database,
which includes
accuracy<br
class="">
<br class="">
on the
contacts. We
are not<br
class="">
<br class="">
fulfilling
that in this
situation.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Remember that
*all*<br
class="">
<br class="">
the other RIRs
have already
this<br
class="">
<br class="">
kind of
policy. This
one is like<br
class="">
<br class="">
the one that
has been
implemented<br
class="">
<br class="">
in APNIC, and
the accuracy
of the<br
class="">
<br class="">
contacts is
now 87.5% as
reported<br
class="">
<br class="">
this month in
the last APNIC<br
class="">
<br class="">
meeting. In
that report
*none*<br
class="">
<br class="">
of the members
indicated any
of<br class="">
<br class="">
the issues
that you
indicated<br
class="">
<br class="">
(didn't
happened as
well in the<br
class="">
<br class="">
other
regions).<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
You know who
is<br class="">
<br class="">
interested in
not having
abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
contacts?
Those that use
their<br
class="">
<br class="">
networks for
doing abuse<br
class="">
<br class="">
(hijacking,
spam, DoS,
intrusions,<br
class="">
<br class="">
etc.).<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Can you
explain if<br
class="">
<br class="">
the network
that you
operate has<br
class="">
<br class="">
an abuse
contact an how
if one of<br
class="">
<br class="">
your customes
is trying to<br
class="">
<br class="">
penetrate my
network or do
a DoS,<br
class="">
<br class="">
I will be able
to contact you
and<br
class="">
<br class="">
if you will do
anything or
just<br
class="">
<br class="">
ignore it?<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Jordi<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
@jordipalet<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
El<br class="">
<br class="">
17/9/20 2:21,
"lucilla
fornaro"<br
class="">
<br class="">
<<a
href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>><br
class="">
<br class="">
escribi?:<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Dear<br
class="">
<br class="">
all,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
I<br class="">
<br class="">
have some
concerns about
the<br
class="">
<br class="">
?Abuse Contact
Policy?.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
First<br
class="">
<br class="">
of all, it
does not offer
a<br class="">
<br class="">
specific and
regulated<br
class="">
<br class="">
description of
the term
?abuse?<br
class="">
<br class="">
and this
opens the door
to<br class="">
<br class="">
potentially
bigger
problems: a<br
class="">
<br class="">
surplus of
reports,<br
class="">
<br class="">
discrimination/legal issues, and<br class="">
<br class="">
a waste of
resources.
Around the<br
class="">
<br class="">
world, we can
perceive what<br
class="">
<br class="">
abuse is in
very different
ways.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Afrinic<br
class="">
<br class="">
is not
entitled to
force members<br
class="">
<br class="">
to report
abuses and
most<br
class="">
<br class="">
importantly,
this proposal
does<br
class="">
<br class="">
not represent
Afrinic?s
purpose.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
I,<br class="">
<br class="">
therefore,
oppose this
policy.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Thank<br
class="">
<br class="">
you,<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Lucilla <br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
<br class="">
RPD mailing
list <a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
**********************************************<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
IPv4 is over<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Are you ready
for the new
Internet ?<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="http://www.theipv6company.com/"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
The IPv6
Company<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
This
electronic
message
contains<br
class="">
<br class="">
information
which may be
privileged or<br
class="">
<br class="">
confidential.
The
information is<br
class="">
<br class="">
intended to be
for the
exclusive use
of<br class="">
<br class="">
the
individual(s)
named above
and<br
class="">
<br class="">
further
non-explicilty
authorized<br
class="">
<br class="">
disclosure,
copying,
distribution
or use<br
class="">
<br class="">
of the
contents of
this
information,<br
class="">
<br class="">
even if
partially,
including
attached<br
class="">
<br class="">
files, is
strictly
prohibited and
will<br
class="">
<br class="">
be considered
a criminal
offense. If
you<br
class="">
<br class="">
are not the
intended
recipient be
aware<br
class="">
<br class="">
that any
disclosure,
copying,<br
class="">
<br class="">
distribution
or use of the
contents of<br
class="">
<br class="">
this
information,
even if
partially,<br
class="">
<br class="">
including
attached
files, is
strictly<br
class="">
<br class="">
prohibited,
will be
considered a<br
class="">
<br class="">
criminal
offense, so
you must reply
to<br class="">
<br class="">
the original
sender to
inform about
this<br
class="">
<br class="">
communication
and delete it.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
RPD mailing
list<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
**********************************************<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
IPv4 is over<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Are you ready
for the new
Internet ?<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="http://www.theipv6company.com/"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
The IPv6
Company<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
This
electronic
message
contains
information<br
class="">
<br class="">
which may be
privileged or
confidential.
The<br
class="">
<br class="">
information is
intended to be
for the
exclusive<br
class="">
<br class="">
use of the
individual(s)
named above
and further<br
class="">
<br class="">
non-explicilty
authorized
disclosure,
copying,<br
class="">
<br class="">
distribution
or use of the
contents of
this<br
class="">
<br class="">
information,
even if
partially,
including<br
class="">
<br class="">
attached
files, is
strictly
prohibited and
will<br
class="">
<br class="">
be considered
a criminal
offense. If
you are not<br
class="">
<br class="">
the intended
recipient be
aware that any<br
class="">
<br class="">
disclosure,
copying,
distribution
or use of the<br
class="">
<br class="">
contents of
this
information,
even if
partially,<br
class="">
<br class="">
including
attached
files, is
strictly<br
class="">
<br class="">
prohibited,
will be
considered a
criminal<br
class="">
<br class="">
offense, so
you must reply
to the
original<br
class="">
<br class="">
sender to
inform about
this
communication
and<br
class="">
<br class="">
delete it.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
RPD mailing
list<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
-- <br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Lamiaa<br
class="">
<br class="">
CHNAYTI<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
**********************************************<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
IPv4 is over<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Are you ready
for the new
Internet ?<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="http://www.theipv6company.com/"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
The IPv6
Company<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
This
electronic
message
contains
information
which may be<br
class="">
<br class="">
privileged or
confidential.
The
information is
intended to<br
class="">
<br class="">
be for the
exclusive use
of the
individual(s)
named above<br
class="">
<br class="">
and further
non-explicilty
authorized
disclosure,
copying,<br
class="">
<br class="">
distribution
or use of the
contents of
this
information,<br
class="">
<br class="">
even if
partially,
including
attached
files, is
strictly<br
class="">
<br class="">
prohibited and
will be
considered a
criminal
offense. If
you<br
class="">
<br class="">
are not the
intended
recipient be
aware that any
disclosure,<br
class="">
<br class="">
copying,
distribution
or use of the
contents of
this<br
class="">
<br class="">
information,
even if
partially,
including
attached
files, is<br
class="">
<br class="">
strictly
prohibited,
will be
considered a
criminal
offense,<br
class="">
<br class="">
so you must
reply to the
original
sender to
inform about<br
class="">
<br class="">
this
communication
and delete it.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
RPD mailing
list<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
<br class="">
RPD mailing
list<br
class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
<br class="">
RPD mailing
list<br
class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
-- <br
class="">
<br class="">
Lamiaa CHNAYTI<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list <a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
**********************************************<br class="">
IPv4 is over<br
class="">
Are you ready
for the new
Internet ?<br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.theipv6company.com/"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br
class="">
The IPv6
Company<br
class="">
<br class="">
This
electronic
message
contains
information
which may be
privileged or
confidential.
The
information is
intended to be
for the
exclusive use
of the
individual(s)
named above
and further
non-explicilty
authorized
disclosure,
copying,
distribution
or use of the
contents of
this
information,
even if
partially,
including
attached
files, is
strictly
prohibited and
will be
considered a
criminal
offense. If
you are not
the intended
recipient be
aware that any
disclosure,
copying,
distribution
or use of the
contents of
this
information,
even if
partially,
including
attached
files, is
strictly
prohibited,
will be
considered a
criminal
offense, so
you must reply
to the
original
sender to
inform about
this
communication
and delete it.<br
class="">
<br class="">
--------------
next part
--------------<br
class="">
An HTML
attachment was
scrubbed...<br
class="">
URL: <<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20200921/38d79b2f/attachment.html"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20200921/38d79b2f/attachment.html</a>><br
class="">
<br class="">
------------------------------<br class="">
<br class="">
Subject:
Digest Footer<br
class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
RPD mailing
list<br
class="">
<a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
------------------------------<br class="">
<br class="">
End of RPD
Digest, Vol
168, Issue 143<br
class="">
*************************************</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:177pt"><br class="">
**********************************************<br class="">
IPv4 is over<br
class="">
Are you ready
for the new
Internet ?<br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.theipv6company.com/"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br
class="">
The IPv6
Company<br
class="">
<br class="">
This
electronic
message
contains
information
which may be
privileged or
confidential.
The
information is
intended to be
for the
exclusive use
of the
individual(s)
named above
and further
non-explicilty
authorized
disclosure,
copying,
distribution
or use of the
contents of
this
information,
even if
partially,
including
attached
files, is
strictly
prohibited and
will be
considered a
criminal
offense. If
you are not
the intended
recipient be
aware that any
disclosure,
copying,
distribution
or use of the
contents of
this
information,
even if
partially,
including
attached
files, is
strictly
prohibited,
will be
considered a
criminal
offense, so
you must reply
to the
original
sender to
inform about
this
communication
and delete it.</p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">_______________________________________________<br
class="">
RPD mailing
list<br
class="">
<a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div
style="margin-bottom:
12pt;
margin-left:
177pt;"
class=""> <br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<pre style="margin-left:177pt" class="">_______________________________________________</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:177pt" class="">RPD mailing list</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:177pt" class=""><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:177pt" class=""><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing
list <a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:141.6pt"><br class="">
**********************************************<br class="">
IPv4 is over<br
class="">
Are you ready
for the new
Internet ?<br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.theipv6company.com/"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br
class="">
The IPv6
Company<br
class="">
<br class="">
This
electronic
message
contains
information
which may be
privileged or
confidential.
The
information is
intended to be
for the
exclusive use
of the
individual(s)
named above
and further
non-explicilty
authorized
disclosure,
copying,
distribution
or use of the
contents of
this
information,
even if
partially,
including
attached
files, is
strictly
prohibited and
will be
considered a
criminal
offense. If
you are not
the intended
recipient be
aware that any
disclosure,
copying,
distribution
or use of the
contents of
this
information,
even if
partially,
including
attached
files, is
strictly
prohibited,
will be
considered a
criminal
offense, so
you must reply
to the
original
sender to
inform about
this
communication
and delete it.<br
class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list <a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><br class="">
**********************************************<br class="">
IPv4 is over<br
class="">
Are you ready
for the new
Internet ?<br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.theipv6company.com/"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br
class="">
The IPv6
Company<br
class="">
<br class="">
This
electronic
message
contains
information
which may be
privileged or
confidential.
The
information is
intended to be
for the
exclusive use
of the
individual(s)
named above
and further
non-explicilty
authorized
disclosure,
copying,
distribution
or use of the
contents of
this
information,
even if
partially,
including
attached
files, is
strictly
prohibited and
will be
considered a
criminal
offense. If
you are not
the intended
recipient be
aware that any
disclosure,
copying,
distribution
or use of the
contents of
this
information,
even if
partially,
including
attached
files, is
strictly
prohibited,
will be
considered a
criminal
offense, so
you must reply
to the
original
sender to
inform about
this
communication
and delete it.</p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt">_______________________________________________<br
class="">
RPD mailing
list<br
class="">
<a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:106.2pt">_______________________________________________<br
class="">
RPD mailing
list<br
class="">
<a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br class="">
**********************************************<br class="">
IPv4 is over<br
class="">
Are you ready
for the new
Internet ?<br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.theipv6company.com/"
target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br
class="">
The IPv6
Company<br
class="">
<br class="">
This
electronic
message
contains
information
which may be
privileged or
confidential.
The
information is
intended to be
for the
exclusive use
of the
individual(s)
named above
and further
non-explicilty
authorized
disclosure,
copying,
distribution
or use of the
contents of
this
information,
even if
partially,
including
attached
files, is
strictly
prohibited and
will be
considered a
criminal
offense. If
you are not
the intended
recipient be
aware that any
disclosure,
copying,
distribution
or use of the
contents of
this
information,
even if
partially,
including
attached
files, is
strictly
prohibited,
will be
considered a
criminal
offense, so
you must reply
to the
original
sender to
inform about
this
communication
and delete it.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><br
class="">
**********************************************<br class="">
IPv4 is over<br
class="">
Are you ready for
the new Internet ?<br
class="">
<a
href="http://www.theipv6company.com/"
target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br
class="">
The IPv6 Company<br
class="">
<br class="">
This electronic
message contains
information which
may be privileged or
confidential. The
information is
intended to be for
the exclusive use of
the individual(s)
named above and
further
non-explicilty
authorized
disclosure, copying,
distribution or use
of the contents of
this information,
even if partially,
including attached
files, is strictly
prohibited and will
be considered a
criminal offense. If
you are not the
intended recipient
be aware that any
disclosure, copying,
distribution or use
of the contents of
this information,
even if partially,
including attached
files, is strictly
prohibited, will be
considered a
criminal offense, so
you must reply to
the original sender
to inform about this
communication and
delete it.</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<br
class="">
RPD mailing list<br
class="">
<a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank"
class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<br
class="">
RPD mailing list<br
class="">
<a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
**********************************************<br class="">
IPv4 is over<br class="">
Are you ready for the new Internet
?<br class="">
<a
href="http://www.theipv6company.com/"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br
class="">
The IPv6 Company<br class="">
<br class="">
This electronic message contains
information which may be
privileged or confidential. The
information is intended to be for
the exclusive use of the
individual(s) named above and
further non-explicilty authorized
disclosure, copying, distribution
or use of the contents of this
information, even if partially,
including attached files, is
strictly prohibited and will be
considered a criminal offense. If
you are not the intended recipient
be aware that any disclosure,
copying, distribution or use of
the contents of this information,
even if partially, including
attached files, is strictly
prohibited, will be considered a
criminal offense, so you must
reply to the original sender to
inform about this communication
and delete it.<br class="">
<br class="">
<span class="">_______________________________________________</span><br
class="">
<span class="">RPD mailing list</span><br
class="">
<span class=""><a
href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a></span><br
class="">
<span class=""><a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></span><br
class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
RPD mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
RPD mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br
class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br
class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
RPD mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
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