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    <p>If anyone believe there is something to be discussed about fraud
      prevention in "another future proposal" that is a clear signal
      this proposal should not progress as written. Leaving it "for
      later" can become just a trick to not change it anytime soon
      imposing a serious operational issue to AfriNic staff when having
      to recovery fraudulent activities with resources.</p>
    <p>What has been done with regarding this proposal is unprecedented
      compared to other RIRs and yet another reason this proposal the
      way it is, is not prepared to progress and requires further
      discussion and adjustments, specially considering the major
      changes that happened at last minute.</p>
    <p>Fernnado<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 28/09/2020 08:44, lucilla fornaro
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKJg62JMr++QQf=TaVJa8A0dgWHxxRf=KkHqrgR=FRJGoD+8og@mail.gmail.com">
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        <div dir="ltr"><br>
          <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Hello everyone, </div>
          <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
          </div>
          <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
            <p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">I
                will have to agree with </span><span
                style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">Lamiaa</span><strong
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">, </strong><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">AFRINIC’s
                role is to ensure a complete assent with needs-based
                policies and to update and preserve the efficiency of
                the registry, we cannot promote policy concerning how
                clients then transfer resources across an internetwork
                from a source to a destination (routing).</span></p>
            <p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">AFRINIC </span><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">encourages
                and defends the bottom-up policy process and unallocated
                number resource pool, </span><span
                style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">then
                the responsibility is entirely up to the one holding the
                resources (member) on how to route them. I feel we are
                focusing on and discussing something slightly different
                than the actual proposal. </span></p>
            <p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
            </p>
            <p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">For
                what concerns the potential fraud and abuse, I still
                think it would be a better option to discuss a separate
                policy on fraud prevention. If you believe fraud can
                happen, I assume you agree on the fact that it can also
                potentially happens with 12 months of hold time. That’s
                why we need a separate proposal and keep this one
                operating smoothly. </span></p>
            <p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
              </span></p>
            <p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">regards,</span></p>
            <p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
              </span></p>
            <p
style="color:rgb(14,16,26);background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span
style="background-color:transparent;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">Lucilla </span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno lun 28 set 2020 alle
          ore 19:59 Lamiaa Chnayti <<a
            href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>>
          ha scritto:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Hello Jordi,<br>
              <br>
              The salient point here is that AFRINIC only manages
              registration, not routing. We can make policies about
              registration of space, but not routing of the space. <br>
              <br>
              If their upstream decides to route a space that wasn't
              registered to them, it is entirely in their upstream's
              right to do so. If the operator chooses to route space
              that doesn't belong to them and their upstream is okay
              with it, it is entirely out of the AFRINIC community's
              scope - just like any hijacking is out of the scope for
              the AFRINIC community (the same reason many have told you
              that the hijacking as policy violation is out of scope). <br>
              <br>
              From AFRINIC's point of view, they have terminated the
              contract; they have changed the registration. What happens
              at the routing table isn't really AFRINIC's business nor
              their concern anymore. <br>
              <br>
              They do not need to get anything back; those spaces can be
              allocated to a different member. It is entirely up to the
              one holding the space to have other operators recognize
              it. Please do remember, AFRINIC is wholly based on the
              voluntary cooperation of operators; if someone does not
              recognize AFRINIC's database as the "right" registration
              database and then start one of their own, they can
              definitely do it as it is entirely within their rights to
              do so. So the difficulty you were talking about is really
              out of the scope of AFRINIC.</font>
            <div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Regards,</font></div>
            <div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Lamiaa</font><br>
              <br>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 28 sept. 2020
              à 10:03, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
                href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a écrit :<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div lang="ES">
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US">Hi Ekaterina,</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US">The termination of the contract is
                      easy, but what happens if the operator keeps using
                      those resources? How you enforce it to stop? What
                      happens if the case is brought to the courts by
                      any of the parties? How much time it takes?
                      Meanwhile AFRINIC doesn’t get the resources back,
                      so it is not able to redistribute them. This is
                      not fantasy: we have a real case for millions of
                      IP addresses right now in AFRINIC!</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US">How much is the cost in terms of
                      lawyers and wait time? Who is using meanwhile the
                      resources? The bad guys.</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US">*<b>Partially</b>* that may be
                      resolved if we have the AS0 proposal, but even in
                      that case, that only works for the operators using
                      the AS0 TAL!</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US">Even if the resources are recovered,
                      do you understand that AFRINIC procedure is to
                      quarantine them for 12 months before coming back
                      to the pool?</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US">So, what is the gain vs having 12
                      months hold time? Easy, with the 12 months hold
                      time the cost is much lower. I’m not talking only
                      about money cost for AFRINIC in case of disputes,
                      human resources to tackle them, etc., but also the
                      cost of not being able to use those resources
                      during the recovery time + the quarantine period.</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US">Again, that will be resolved,
                      allowing to reduce the quarantine period, if we
                      have the “policy compliance dashboard”.</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US">A /22 can be obtained in AFRINIC just
                      with a cost of 2.900 USD (justifying an end-site,
                      for example). You can easily sell this for 10
                      times more! So, it is a very small investment for
                      a huge margin. Just think if you can repeat that
                      every year, or actually many times per year, just
                      creating a company for “only that”. How much it
                      cost in the cheaper country in AFRICA to create a
                      company? You don’t need offices, or anything like
                      that, you can make a “fake” DC in your home.</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US">I don’t think it is a matter of the
                      most “flexible and open” proposal. It is about
                      that one that *<b>really works</b>* and is *<b>safer</b>*.
                      If you followed the discussion on the first
                      proposal (the one that I’ve presented in 2018,
                      with two approaches and several versions), across
                      that discussion *<b>the community</b>* asked me to
                      have a “security seat belt”, so if something goes
                      wrong, it can be put in hold. I said it was not
                      needed, but the community insisted, so I did. Now
                      the community don’t want that. This only shows
                      that the problem in developing policies, is that
                      depending “who” is speaking, the authors get crazy
                      at every version. However, if the chairs really
                      consider only what are valid-objections this will
                      not be an issue. But the problem is that consensus
                      is being decided even considering invalid and
                      refuted objections.</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US">May be some folks now understand
                      better that when you do policy proposals, you need
                      to look *<b>at a very broad context</b>* and not
                      only in that specific RIR!</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US">It is impossible for an author to
                      explain *<b>all this</b>* in each policy proposal.
                      It is impossible for an author to explain all this
                      in a *<b>8 minutes</b>* presentation. There are *<b>many</b>*
                      other aspects that you can’t realize if you’re not
                      operating networks and participating in all the
                      RIRs. Internet is global and you really need to
                      consider everything. A specific region business
                      and cultural details, are very important for the
                      policy making process, but not forgetting the
                      others!</span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                        style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"
                      lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El
                        25/9/20 19:58, "Ekaterina Kalugina" <<a
                          href="mailto:kay.k.prof@gmail.com"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">kay.k.prof@gmail.com</a>>
                        escribió:</p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Dear
                        Jordi, dear all,</p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Jordi,
                        could you please elaborate a bit more on your
                        statement: "the cost of “not-being-able to use
                        those resources” for any number of providers is
                        actually *lower* than the cost of a single
                        recovery case!" </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">As
                        far as I understood, the recovery is  be
                        achieved though the termination of the contract.
                        So what exactly is included in the  recovery
                        costs? </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">In
                        regard to your argument on the history of fraud
                        in all the RIRs, I do not believe it is very
                        relevant to the current discussion for a simple
                        reason that the maximum allocation space is
                        currently /22. Proving the need that is required
                        for the allocation would cost thousands of
                        dollars, so there is simply no incentive for
                        businesses to commit such fraud. It would cost
                        them way too </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">much
                          and bring way to little. </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">In
                          addition, I believe that our focus should be
                          on passing the most flexible and open
                          transfer  policy to incentivise the free flow
                          of resources in and out of the region that is
                          necessary for a steady economic development. </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">If
                          there are so many concerns concerning
                          potential resource abuse and fraud, perhaps a
                          separate policy on fraud prevention ought to
                          be introduced. Let us not try to kill all the
                          possible birds with one stone and instead
                          focus on solving one problem per policy. In my
                          view, this is they only way to ameliorate the
                          duties of AFRINIC staff and ensure the proper
                          practical application of each policy. </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Best
                          wishes,</p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Kay </p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"> </p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On
                        Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 13:14 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
                        <<a href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>>
                        wrote:</p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="border-style:none none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm
                      0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                              style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi
                              Ekaterina,</span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                              style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                              style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:70.8pt">El 24/9/20
                                12:25, "Ekaterina Kalugina" <<a
                                  href="mailto:kay.k.prof@gmail.com"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">kay.k.prof@gmail.com</a>>
                                escribió:</p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                style="font-size:12pt">Hey everyone,</span></p>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                  style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-left:70.8pt"><a
                                    href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">@JORDI PALET
                                    MARTINEZ</a> <span
                                    style="font-size:12pt">you said, and
                                    I quote:</span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12pt">>"An ISP
                                    will not need to return even a /22
                                    because he loses 1.024 customers as
                                    he can get them back, this is very
                                    common customer churn in a matter of
                                    weeks (even days or hours for big
                                    ISPs)."<br>
                                    <br>
                                    In this case, ISP would not need to
                                    bother with resource transfer.</span></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">[Jordi]
                                    At the beginning of the transfers in
                                    other regions, I was *<b>against</b>*
                                    that. In my opinion when operators
                                    don’t need the resources, they
                                    should return them back to the RIR.
                                    BUT we all know, that people is not
                                    so honest, and this will only happen
                                    in an utopic and idealistic world
                                    and moreover, this will still need
                                    some “agreement” between different
                                    RIRs to allow those resources that
                                    are returned to be “transferred”
                                    among RIRs. Due to facts, afterwards
                                    I realized that this is a need for
                                    the global community and that’s why
                                    I agreed with those policies, and
                                    even started to work on them as an
                                    author. </span></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"><br>
                                    <br>
                                    However, I believe a situation may
                                    occur when the ISP is unable to
                                    distribute the allocated resources
                                    for whatever reason. </span><span
                                    style="font-size:12pt">Even if we
                                    cannot predict the reason we must
                                    still account for such contingency.
                                    And, in such case, it does not make
                                    sense to block these resources for
                                    12 months from being transferred to
                                    a place where they are actually
                                    needed. This would be detrimental to
                                    everyone involved. </span></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">[Jordi]
                                    I don’t agree. A transfer may take
                                    several weeks or even months. It
                                    depends on many factors, like the
                                    justification time among the RIRs,
                                    providing documents, etc. Even if
                                    you discover that in month 3 after
                                    you have received a /22, you no
                                    longer need it (which I doubt it can
                                    be true), this means that the
                                    resources will be “unused” during
                                    other 6-7 months. I could agree that
                                    the hold time is just 6-8 months
                                    instead of 12, but non zero is
                                    difficult, because the cost of
                                    “not-being-able to use those
                                    resources” for any number of
                                    providers is actually *<b>lower</b>*
                                    than the cost of a single recovery
                                    case!</span></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"><br>
                                    In regard to your statement:<br>
                                    "However, a “bad guy” will easily
                                    use that as an excuse to transfer
                                    the resources in days or weeks."<br>
                                  </span><span style="font-size:12pt">Like
                                    Anthony and Lucilla mentioned
                                    before, such action would be a clear
                                    act of fraud.I do not see any reason
                                    why anyone would willingly commit
                                    such a violation. "Bad guys" are not
                                    stupid, and if someone wants to take
                                    an advantage of AFRINIC, they will,
                                    and I do not think the 12 months cap
                                    would prevent that in any way. </span></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">[Jordi]
                                    Just look at the histories of frauds
                                    in all the RIRs! This is real life.
                                    Holding the resources for 12 months,
                                    breaks their business model. It
                                    makes sense because it is quick
                                    money and you can do it with a very
                                    tiny fraction of money, once and
                                    again and again, rotating among
                                    different RIRs, etc.</span></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"><br>
                                    The only thing it would achieve, in
                                    my view, is slow down the flow of
                                    resources and create stagnations
                                    that could be more costly than any
                                    retrieval procedures in case of
                                    fraud.</span></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">[Jordi]
                                    To be objective, we will need to get
                                    statistics of “speed” of transfers
                                    among different RIRs, number of
                                    frauds or fraud attempts, etc.,
                                    etc., etc. and many of those details
                                    probably are sensitive and the RIRs
                                    will not recognize that, even if
                                    anonymized. There have been fraud
                                    cases in RIPE, which everybody knows
                                    by word of mouth, but it has never
                                    published …</span></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"><br>
                                    But of course, staff assessment is
                                    needed to have full clarity of this
                                    issue.</span></p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                  lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                  style="font-size:12pt">Best,</span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                  style="font-size:12pt">Kay</span></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                            style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:70.8pt">On Thu, Sep
                                24, 2020 at 9:05 AM Gaby Giner <<a
                                  href="mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gabyginernetwork@gmail.com</a>>
                                wrote:</p>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote style="border-style:none none
                              none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm
                              0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:70.8pt">Hello
                                    guys,</p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:70.8pt">This
                                    discussion is very interesting
                                    seeing that it deals with the most
                                    probable or likely outcome with
                                    those that would want to take
                                    advantage of the system. We can only
                                    wish that the clients would be
                                    completely honest with their need,
                                    but of course, if they are inclined
                                    to lie, there is no mechanism that
                                    would stop them from doing so. I
                                    would suggest that the proposal
                                    include a means or a way to
                                    authenticate the need but that would
                                    be more trouble than it is worth and
                                    would not be entirely foolproof. </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:70.8pt">Since we
                                    are dealing with finite and scarce
                                    resources, it's important that the
                                    way they are doled out should be
                                    systematic and measured and not just
                                    "I need this. I need this, give me
                                    this". Having said that, I think
                                    having a time limit would also cause
                                    traffic for the "need". Regardless,
                                    as Lucilla said, these are
                                    hypothetical scenarios and questions
                                    but they may be worth getting into.</p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:70.8pt">I'm
                                    interested in what the staff/authors
                                    would have to say on this matter.</p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:70.8pt">Thanks,
                                    Gaby.</p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:70.8pt">On Thu,
                                    Sep 24, 2020, 2:59 PM JORDI PALET
                                    MARTINEZ via RPD, <<a
                                      href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
                                    wrote:</p>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote style="border-style:none
                                  none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm
                                  0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">I mean a
                                          non-realistic situation. An
                                          ISP will not need to return
                                          even a /22 because he loses
                                          1.024 customers as he can get
                                          them back, this is very common
                                          customer churn in a matter of
                                          weeks (even days or hours for
                                          big ISPs).</span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">However, a “bad
                                          guy” will easily use that as
                                          an excuse to transfer the
                                          resources in days or weeks.</span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                                            style="margin-left:106.2pt">El
                                            24/9/20 8:29, "JORDI PALET
                                            MARTINEZ via RPD" <<a
                                              href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
                                            escribió:</p>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">Exactly, if you
                                          really have that situation you
                                          can return them and be fair.</span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">Anyway, the
                                          example that I’ve presented is
                                          a non-realistic suggestion. It
                                          is not frequent that an
                                          operator loses customers in
                                          such way. It is just the
                                          perfect excuse for “bad guys”
                                          to get resources and resell
                                          them.</span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US">Remember also
                                          that in the actual exhaustion
                                          phase, they can only get a
                                          maximum of a /22.</span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                          style="font-size:12pt"
                                          lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                                            style="margin-left:141.6pt">El
                                            24/9/20 4:03, "Fernando
                                            Frediani" <<a
                                              href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
                                            escribió:</p>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <p style="margin-left:141.6pt">We
                                        can make in another way: if
                                        someone justifies and receives
                                        resources from AfriNic but
                                        afterwards realizes something
                                        changed and doesn't need those
                                        addresses anymore it must give
                                        the addresses back to AfriNic so
                                        it can re-distribute it in the
                                        most fair way to any other
                                        organization who goes though the
                                        same justification process. Why
                                        is it difficult to think about
                                        this fairness with all others in
                                        the region ?</p>
                                      <p style="margin-left:141.6pt">Fernando</p>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin-left:141.6pt">On
                                          23/09/2020 22:22, lucilla
                                          fornaro wrote:</p>
                                      </div>
                                      <blockquote
                                        style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt">Hello
                                                everyone,</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt">I
                                                agree with what concerns
                                                the problem of the time
                                                limit. Companies will
                                                refrain from such
                                                behavior because it is
                                                too risky and indicative
                                                of possible fraud.</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt">Jordi,
                                                Considering your example
                                                related to the
                                                customers' loss, I think
                                                that it is adverse for
                                                the operator to wait 12
                                                months before
                                                transferring the
                                                addresses. What is the
                                                point in holding
                                                addresses that they will
                                                not be able to use and
                                                deprive someone else of
                                                further resources? What
                                                if they don’t get new
                                                customers? What if they
                                                lose even more
                                                customers? Too many
                                                hypothetical questions,
                                                that is why I believe it
                                                is more straightforward
                                                and more convenient for
                                                everyone to facilitate
                                                the process.</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt">I
                                                agree that recovery
                                                processes are expensive
                                                and time-consuming, but
                                                we can say the same for
                                                those unused resources.</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt">As
                                                well as you, I would
                                                like to know the staff’s
                                                view on this.</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt">Regards,</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt">Lucilla </p>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                                              style="margin-left:141.6pt">Il
                                              giorno mer 23 set 2020
                                              alle ore 21:14 JORDI PALET
                                              MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
                                                href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
                                              ha scritto:</p>
                                          </div>
                                          <blockquote
                                            style="border-style:none
                                            none none
solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm
                                            0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm
                                            5pt 4.8pt">
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                  style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi Anthony,</span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                  style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">I think *<b>somehow</b>*
                                                      you’re right,
                                                      clearly I
                                                      overlooked this.</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">We don’t need a time
                                                      limit to transfer
                                                      resrources because
                                                      that will be a
                                                      demonstration of
                                                      the “the need was
                                                      not justified”.</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">However, the problem of
                                                      this approach is
                                                      that if it
                                                      happens, the staff
                                                      *<b>will need to
                                                        start a recovery
                                                        process</b>*
                                                      which is long,
                                                      costly and a big
                                                      trouble.</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">What happens if the *<b>false</b>*
                                                      justification for
                                                      the transfer is: I
                                                      had the need 6
                                                      months ago, but
                                                      then I lost
                                                      customers and now
                                                      I don’t need
                                                      anymore the space,
                                                      so I’m transfering
                                                      it.</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">What happens if the same
                                                      operator, repeat
                                                      that after another
                                                      6 months? There
                                                      are ways to one
                                                      and again *<b>justify
                                                        the need</b>*
                                                      and it is,
                                                      instead, very
                                                      dificult for the
                                                      staff to act on
                                                      the RSA for
                                                      recovery and
                                                      member closure in
                                                      those cases.</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">On the other way around,
                                                      what is the
                                                      “objection” if we
                                                      have that hold
                                                      time? I can only
                                                      see one: If the
                                                      example above (I
                                                      lost customers)
                                                      happens, the
                                                      operator need to
                                                      wait until month
                                                      12 before
                                                      transfering the
                                                      addresses. Is that
                                                      really so bad? Or
                                                      it is good because
                                                      he may get new
                                                      customers again?</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">I think the trade-off is
                                                      to have a good
                                                      balance and ensure
                                                      that we avoid this
                                                      happening and
                                                      requiring the
                                                      staff to invest
                                                      resources in an
                                                      investigation and
                                                      recovery.</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Could the staff provide
                                                      a view on this?</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regarding the legacy.
                                                      Yes, ARIN and RIPE
                                                      don’t have it (I
                                                      think APNIC has
                                                      it, LACNIC
                                                      definitively has
                                                      it). AFRINIC has
                                                      it right now. We
                                                      are removing a
                                                      very good thing.</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Why it is so good?
                                                      Because legacy
                                                      holders aren’t
                                                      bound to the RIRs
                                                      RSAs, so that’s
                                                      extremely bad for
                                                      the overall
                                                      community. They
                                                      don’t pay for *<b>services</b>*
                                                      that all the RIRs
                                                      are doing for
                                                      them, so all the
                                                      members are
                                                      covering that part
                                                      of the cost.
                                                      They’re not bound
                                                      to RIR policies,
                                                      so they can break
                                                      the rules of the
                                                      community all the
                                                      time and we have
                                                      no way to react on
                                                      that.</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">I don’t agree on the
                                                      point of the
                                                      disputed
                                                      resources, I’ve
                                                      the feeling that
                                                      somehow in the
                                                      process of editing
                                                      the v2, it was
                                                      removed by mistake
                                                      and we should have
                                                      it back. The
                                                      difference in
                                                      between rightful
                                                      holder and having
                                                      a dispute, is
                                                      depending on who
                                                      is saying that, in
                                                      case of a dispute.
                                                      I will love also
                                                      to have the staff
                                                      opinion on that.</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">As well, can the impact
                                                      analysis be made
                                                      clear? Is that all
                                                      fine for the staff
                                                      after having
                                                      checked with
                                                      authors each
                                                      point?</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Please, let’s make this
                                                      happen!</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                  style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                  style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">El 21/9/20 18:10, "Anthony Ubah" <<a
                                                        href="mailto:ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com"
                                                        target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com</a>> escribió:</p>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">Hello Jordi,<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      We can sight an
                                                      instance with
                                                      APNIC as a case
                                                      study. APNIC has a
                                                      transfer policy
                                                      that doesn’t have
                                                      a time limit for
                                                      retransferring
                                                      resources and time
                                                      proves to us that
                                                      it works.<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      According to
                                                      APNIC, the act of
                                                      buying space and
                                                      reselling it right
                                                      after the purchase
                                                      seems to be highly
                                                      unlikely because
                                                      of two reasons.<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      First of all, most
                                                      companies buy
                                                      space for their
                                                      own use, and hence
                                                      a commodity
                                                      trading type of
                                                      business doesn’t
                                                      exist in the IP
                                                      space involved.<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      Secondly, since
                                                      the buyer is
                                                      required to
                                                      justify the need
                                                      of a 12-month
                                                      usage, if he/she
                                                      engages in an
                                                      activity such as
                                                      buying the space
                                                      and then reselling
                                                      it right after,
                                                      this indicative of
                                                      fraud because it
                                                      contravenes the
                                                      “NEED” which is a
                                                      prerequisite for
                                                      receiving such
                                                      space. This simply
                                                      implies that the
                                                      so-called “NEED”
                                                      which they
                                                      provided was fake.
                                                      Hence, companies
                                                      will refrain from
                                                      engaging in such
                                                      behaviour.<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      As for the legacy
                                                      transfer, I
                                                      believe both ARIN
                                                      and RIPE have the
                                                      cases of a
                                                      transferred legacy
                                                      space remained as
                                                      a legacy. APNIC
                                                      may be different,
                                                      but I think this
                                                      is just a
                                                      different sort of
                                                      opinion and should
                                                      not be read as an
                                                      objection. Also,
                                                      what matters the
                                                      most is that if we
                                                      follow ARIN, we
                                                      can receive space
                                                      from them.
                                                      Definitely this is
                                                      a significant
                                                      advantage.<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      As for the
                                                      disputed
                                                      resources, since
                                                      AFRINIC have to
                                                      know who the
                                                      rightful holder of
                                                      the spaces are
                                                      before
                                                      transferring them.
                                                      I don’t think this
                                                      would be a concern
                                                      because AFRINIC is
                                                      not able to
                                                      initiate a
                                                      transfer for space
                                                      that is under
                                                      dispute. However,
                                                      this is a legal
                                                      matter and is
                                                      already out of the
                                                      scope of the
                                                      policy.<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      Best Regards,</p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-left:177pt;line-height:150%"><b><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Garamond,serif">Anthony
                                                          Ubah</span></b></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          style="margin-left:177pt;line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:Garamond,serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">E-mail: </span><a
href="mailto:anthony.ubah@gloworld.com" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:Garamond,serif">anthony.ubah@goldspine.com</span></a><span
style="font-family:Garamond,serif;color:rgb(153,153,153)">.ng</span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:00 AM <<a
                                                          href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>>
                                                        wrote:</p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      style="border-style:none
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solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm
                                                      0cm 0cm
                                                      6pt;margin:5pt 0cm
                                                      5pt 4.8pt">
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:177pt">Send RPD mailing list submissions to<br>
                                                                <a
                                                          href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a><br>
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                                                        Today's Topics:<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                           1.
                                                        AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02
                                                        - Resource
                                                        Transfer Policy<br>
                                                              (JORDI
                                                        PALET MARTINEZ)<br>
                                                           2. Re: Abuse
                                                        Contact Policy
                                                        (JORDI PALET
                                                        MARTINEZ)<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Message: 1<br>
                                                        Date: Mon, 21
                                                        Sep 2020
                                                        10:34:13 +0200<br>
                                                        From: JORDI
                                                        PALET MARTINEZ
                                                        <<a
                                                          href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
                                                        To: rpd List
                                                        <<a
                                                          href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
                                                        Subject: [rpd]
                                                        AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02
                                                        - Resource
                                                        Transfer Policy<br>
                                                        Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:8873E491-A0A7-4506-A490-13C6B6E67A7D@consulintel.es"
                                                          target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">8873E491-A0A7-4506-A490-13C6B6E67A7D@consulintel.es</a>><br>
                                                        Content-Type:
                                                        text/plain;
                                                        charset="utf-8"<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Hi all,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I will be happy
                                                        to support this
                                                        proposal and
                                                        withdraw my own
                                                        one, but
                                                        *before* I?ve
                                                        some questions
                                                        about this
                                                        decision that
                                                        need to be
                                                        addressed first
                                                        (see below,
                                                        in-line).<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        10.   Resource
                                                        Transfer Policy<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        This proposal
                                                        aims to
                                                        introduce Inter
                                                        RIR transfer.
                                                        However, it has
                                                        the following
                                                        opposition <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        a.             
                                                             Issues with
                                                        Legacy holder
                                                        transfer is
                                                        potentially
                                                        considered
                                                        none-reciprocal
                                                        by ARIN<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        b.             
                                                            Potential
                                                        abuse of AFRINIC
                                                        free pool
                                                        without the time
                                                        limit of
                                                        receiving an
                                                        allocation from
                                                        AFRINIC.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Chairs Decision:
                                                        The proposal is
                                                        the least
                                                        contested of all
                                                        the 3 competing
                                                        proposals.
                                                        However because
                                                        of the
                                                        community?s
                                                        desire and clear
                                                        expression for
                                                        the  need for an
                                                        Inter RIR
                                                        transfer, we,
                                                        the Co-chairs,
                                                        believe that in
                                                        the interest of
                                                        the community we
                                                        should focus on
                                                        a proposal
                                                        rather than
                                                        several similar
                                                        ones. This
                                                        desire was
                                                        clearly
                                                        expressed at the
                                                        AFRINIC 31
                                                        meeting in
                                                        Angola.
                                                        Therefore, We
                                                        suggest that the
                                                        authors of this
                                                        proposal make
                                                        the following
                                                        amendments: <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        ?       
                                                         5.7.3.2  Source
                                                        entities are not
                                                        eligible to
                                                        receive further
                                                        IPv4 allocations
                                                        or assignments
                                                        from AFRINIC for
                                                        12 months period
                                                        after the
                                                        transfer.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        [Jordi] This is
                                                        perfect, and in
                                                        fact is what
                                                        I?ve. Just
                                                        different timing
                                                        to match phase 2
                                                        window x 2, but
                                                        not a big issue.
                                                        However, we are
                                                        missing
                                                        something that
                                                        was also
                                                        objected by the
                                                        community and I
                                                        think is key to
                                                        avoid abuse.
                                                        Actual text in
                                                        the CPM ?5.7.3.3
                                                        Source entities
                                                        must not have
                                                        received a
                                                        transfer,
                                                        allocation, or
                                                        assignment of
                                                        IPv4 number
                                                        resources from
                                                        AFRINIC for the
                                                        12 months prior
                                                        to the approval
                                                        of transfer
                                                        request. This
                                                        restriction
                                                        excludes mergers
                                                        and acquisitions
                                                        transfers.?.
                                                        This is no
                                                        longer
                                                        considered by
                                                        this proposal,
                                                        and in my
                                                        opinion it is a
                                                        MUST. Doesn?t
                                                        make any sense
                                                        that someone is
                                                        getting
                                                        resources from
                                                        AFRINIC and
                                                        being able to
                                                        transfer them
                                                        immediately! Can
                                                        please the
                                                        chairs also
                                                        address this
                                                        point.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        [Jordi] Can the
                                                        staff explain
                                                        the consequences
                                                        from their
                                                        perspective if
                                                        we don?t have
                                                        such text or
                                                        something
                                                        similar? Is even
                                                        possible that
                                                        the board will
                                                        not ratify the
                                                        policy because
                                                        that, and we are
                                                        wasting a
                                                        previous time?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        ?       
                                                         5.7.4.3.
                                                        Transferred
                                                        legacy resources
                                                        will still be
                                                        regarded as
                                                        legacy
                                                        resources.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        [Jordi] This is
                                                        also a major
                                                        issue. I?m not
                                                        sure if the
                                                        chairs have
                                                        understood what
                                                        was the point
                                                        about lack of
                                                        reciprocity. We
                                                        can?t enforce
                                                        ARIN to accept
                                                        that outgoing
                                                        (to ARIN from
                                                        AFRINIC)
                                                        resources will
                                                        no longer be
                                                        legacy. However
                                                        the actual CPM
                                                        states ?5.7.4.3
                                                        Transferred IPv4
                                                        legacy resources
                                                        will no longer
                                                        be regarded as
                                                        legacy
                                                        resources.?. We
                                                        must keep that,
                                                        because we
                                                        should avoid
                                                        legacy resources
                                                        to keep being
                                                        legacy as much
                                                        as possible,
                                                        because they are
                                                        NOT BIND to the
                                                        CPM. If we
                                                        accept the
                                                        chairs proposal,
                                                        we are going
                                                        *backwards* not
                                                        forward and we
                                                        may be creating
                                                        a discrimination
                                                        with already
                                                        done transfers
                                                        within AFRINIC
                                                        (Intra-RIR,
                                                        according to the
                                                        current policy).
                                                        The right text
                                                        here must be
                                                        ?Transferred
                                                        incoming or
                                                        within AFRINIC
                                                        IPv4 legacy
                                                        resources will
                                                        no longer be
                                                        regarded as
                                                        legacy
                                                        resources?.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        [Jordi] Finally,
                                                        there were
                                                        several severe
                                                        comments from
                                                        the staff that
                                                        need to be
                                                        addressed. For
                                                        example,
                                                        resources under
                                                        dispute. That?s
                                                        a big issue!
                                                        There are a few
                                                        others. I think
                                                        here we need to
                                                        see if the staff
                                                        got everything
                                                        clear from the
                                                        authors inputs
                                                        and if the
                                                        policy can be
                                                        implemented or
                                                        there will be
                                                        open questions
                                                        that will not
                                                        allow to be a
                                                        functional
                                                        policy and
                                                        again, even
                                                        disallow the
                                                        board to ratify
                                                        it.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Chairs Decision:
                                                        Provided that
                                                        the above are
                                                        amended, the
                                                        decisions is
                                                        Rough Consensus
                                                        is achieved     
                                                               <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Regards,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Jordi<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        @jordipalet<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
**********************************************<br>
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------------------------------<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Message: 2<br>
                                                        Date: Mon, 21
                                                        Sep 2020
                                                        11:00:01 +0200<br>
                                                        From: JORDI
                                                        PALET MARTINEZ
                                                        <<a
                                                          href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
                                                        To: <<a
                                                          href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
                                                        Subject: Re:
                                                        [rpd] Abuse
                                                        Contact Policy<br>
                                                        Message-ID: <<a
href="mailto:491C1297-8C2D-4939-B339-EDAA80334B24@consulintel.es"
                                                          target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">491C1297-8C2D-4939-B339-EDAA80334B24@consulintel.es</a>><br>
                                                        Content-Type:
                                                        text/plain;
                                                        charset="utf-8"<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Hi Lamiaa,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        8.3 and 8.4 are
                                                        making sure that
                                                        you respond to
                                                        an abuse case,
                                                        *not* that you
                                                        *recognize* it
                                                        as an abuse. It
                                                        is your choice
                                                        to tell the
                                                        ?victim ISP?,
                                                        look for me this
                                                        is not an abuse,
                                                        so I will not do
                                                        anything about
                                                        it.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        AFRINIC can?t
                                                        verify this
                                                        automatically,
                                                        because it
                                                        doesn?t make
                                                        sense that
                                                        AFRINIC is
                                                        ?sending? fake
                                                        abuse reports to
                                                        see if they get
                                                        a response.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        AFRINIC can only
                                                        send an email
                                                        for the
                                                        validation of
                                                        the mailbox. It
                                                        is an existing
                                                        mailbox? I?m
                                                        getting a
                                                        response (for
                                                        example, have
                                                        they, once I
                                                        send the
                                                        validation
                                                        email, clicked
                                                        the link or went
                                                        into MyAfrinic
                                                        to input the
                                                        validation
                                                        code?).<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        8.4 also states
                                                        the timing for
                                                        the validation.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        8.5 is the
                                                        validation
                                                        itself, so I
                                                        guess, according
                                                        to your
                                                        response, that
                                                        you?re ok with
                                                        this specific
                                                        point. If we
                                                        don?t have it,
                                                        AFRINIC can?t do
                                                        a periodic
                                                        validation.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        8.6. is making
                                                        sure that you
                                                        don?t try to
                                                        fake the
                                                        validation. For
                                                        instance, you
                                                        could respond
                                                        only to AFRINIC
                                                        validations and
                                                        then discard all
                                                        the other
                                                        emails. If we
                                                        don?t have that,
                                                        the policy may
                                                        become useless.
                                                        Note also that
                                                        in fact, if you
                                                        follow the RSA,
                                                        *anyone* could
                                                        escalate *any*
                                                        lack of CPM
                                                        compliance. So
                                                        this is making
                                                        sure that the
                                                        policy text is
                                                        honest and
                                                        transparent.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Or do you prefer
                                                        to be filtered
                                                        because you
                                                        don?t respond?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Clearly this
                                                        proposal is not
                                                        asking AFRINIC
                                                        to be a police.
                                                        Is only making
                                                        sure that the
                                                        parties *can
                                                        talk*. Again:
                                                        AFRINIC will not
                                                        be involved in
                                                        ?how you handle
                                                        the case?, but I
                                                        least you should
                                                        be able to be
                                                        contacted and
                                                        respond.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        See this
                                                        example:<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        If AK or Moses
                                                        customers are
                                                        sending me spam,
                                                        or trying to
                                                        intrude my
                                                        network, and
                                                        they have abuse
                                                        contacts, I will
                                                        be able to
                                                        complain to
                                                        them. Then we
                                                        have two cases:<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        1.   Moses
                                                        responds to me
                                                        and say ?you?re
                                                        right, this is
                                                        against our AUP?
                                                        (is irrelevant
                                                        what the law in
                                                        Moses country
                                                        say, it is the
                                                        contract with
                                                        customers what
                                                        says what is
                                                        allowed or not).
                                                        Let?s fix it. I
                                                        will warn the
                                                        customer, and if
                                                        they don?t stop,
                                                        we will filter
                                                        their email
                                                        port, or even
                                                        cancel the
                                                        contract (just
                                                        examples, only
                                                        Moses can decide
                                                        what they do).<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        2.   AK instead
                                                        doesn?t care, or
                                                        the mailbox is
                                                        full or bouncing
                                                        emails or
                                                        respond ?sorry
                                                        in our network
                                                        we allow that?.
                                                        Then I can take
                                                        my own decision,
                                                        filter only that
                                                        IP address, or
                                                        the complete AK
                                                        network. I can
                                                        even see if this
                                                        is allowed in
                                                        his country and
                                                        take legal
                                                        actions (which
                                                        usually you
                                                        don?t do because
                                                        is costly and
                                                        more of the
                                                        regulations
                                                        don?t know
                                                        ?anything? about
                                                        abuse or even
                                                        Internet!).<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        AFRINIC will not
                                                        take any measure
                                                        if AK decides
                                                        that is not an
                                                        abuse. It is our
                                                        problem not
                                                        AFRINIC problem.
                                                        However, if the
                                                        email is
                                                        bouncing,
                                                        AFRINIC will
                                                        revalidate the
                                                        abuse-c and make
                                                        sure that it
                                                        works.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Is like a phone
                                                        book. You have
                                                        there the phones
                                                        and they must be
                                                        correct, or you
                                                        need to update
                                                        them every ?n?
                                                        months. The
                                                        phone book
                                                        doesn?t tell the
                                                        purpose of each
                                                        phone. If you
                                                        don?t want to
                                                        accept calls
                                                        related to
                                                        ?ordering
                                                        pizzas?, you
                                                        tell the caller
                                                        ?this number is
                                                        not for that?,
                                                        but at least you
                                                        must pick up the
                                                        phone otherwise,
                                                        you don?t know
                                                        if it is
                                                        somebody calling
                                                        by error or
                                                        someone that you
                                                        really want to
                                                        talk. And this
                                                        is true for
                                                        *every* whois
                                                        contact.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Can you let us
                                                        know how do you
                                                        handle it in the
                                                        networks that
                                                        you operate?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Regards,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Jordi<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        @jordipalet<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        El 21/9/20
                                                        10:00, "Lamiaa
                                                        Chnayti" <<a
href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>>
                                                        escribi?:<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Hi Fernando, <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I think you are
                                                        very confused. I
                                                        never said I
                                                        have a problem
                                                        with people
                                                        completing their
                                                        registration.
                                                        Keep
                                                        registration---having
                                                        an abuse contact
                                                        Email in the
                                                        whois, just like
                                                        tech contact or
                                                        admin contact--I
                                                        am perfectly
                                                        fine with it,
                                                        and I think the
                                                        current policy
                                                        achieves 99% it,
                                                        if you want to
                                                        add this contact
                                                        as mandatory
                                                        field I am fine
                                                        with it as well.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                         But the problem
                                                        of this policy
                                                        in 8.3-8.6, is
                                                        that it requires
                                                        AFRINIC to
                                                        monitor the
                                                        members HOW to
                                                        manage their
                                                        abuse mailbox
                                                        down to the
                                                        subject line, 
                                                        and that is out
                                                        of the scope of
                                                        AFRINIC, just
                                                        read my last
                                                        email with logic
                                                        in mind and you
                                                        will understand.
                                                        I suggest this
                                                        policy should be
                                                        very simple, 
                                                        adding one line
                                                        to the current
                                                        policy-- abuse
                                                        contact is
                                                        mandatory, and
                                                        it's done,
                                                        everything else
                                                        should be
                                                        deleted.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        And again, you
                                                        are trying to
                                                        use AFRINIC for
                                                        something that
                                                        is not in its
                                                        scope, how
                                                        someone manages
                                                        their mailbox is
                                                        not in the scope
                                                        of AFRINIC, it
                                                        is like you go
                                                        to your local
                                                        church to ask
                                                        them to arrest
                                                        your neighbour
                                                        who plays loud
                                                        music at night
                                                        when you should
                                                        go to police
                                                        instead. Same
                                                        thing for
                                                        someone running
                                                        an abusive
                                                        network, as many
                                                        already stated,
                                                        it is up to a
                                                        local Jury to
                                                        decide if it is
                                                        simply at an
                                                        annoying level
                                                        or a criminal
                                                        offense, but
                                                        either way
                                                        please do go to
                                                        your local
                                                        police to report
                                                        it.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        As for the
                                                        internet, we
                                                        never tell you
                                                        how to
                                                        behave--you are
                                                        entirely at your
                                                        rights in the
                                                        internet to
                                                        behave
                                                        abusively, but
                                                        it is also
                                                        entirely in
                                                        everyone's
                                                        rights to block
                                                        you, that's how
                                                        de-centralizing
                                                        works, no
                                                        central
                                                        governing,
                                                        everyone plays
                                                        nice because
                                                        that's the only
                                                        way for everyone
                                                        else to play
                                                        with you, and
                                                        this policy here
                                                        asks AFRINIC to
                                                        act like a
                                                        central
                                                        government even
                                                        down to manage
                                                        people's
                                                        mailbox's
                                                        subject line and
                                                        that is way
                                                        beyond what
                                                        internet meant
                                                        to be.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Regards,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Lamiaa<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Le dim. 20 sept.
                                                        2020 ? 23:42,
                                                        Fernando
                                                        Frediani <<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
                                                        a ?crit :<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        On 19/09/2020
                                                        13:19, Lamiaa
                                                        Chnayti wrote:<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
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                                                        <clip><br>
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                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        How is it in the
                                                        scope of AFRINIC
                                                        to decide how I
                                                        manage my abuse
                                                        mailbox? If I
                                                        want to reply
                                                        only to a
                                                        specific subject
                                                        line of my abuse
                                                        box, it is
                                                        entirely in my
                                                        right to do.
                                                        Even if I don't
                                                        want to reply at
                                                        the abuse
                                                        mailbox at all,
                                                        that is my right
                                                        to do so and if
                                                        I think no
                                                        action in my
                                                        network would be
                                                        considered abuse
                                                        (although
                                                        unlikely), but
                                                        it is still
                                                        from  the
                                                        internet
                                                        community point
                                                        of view,
                                                        entirely in my
                                                        right to do so.
                                                        You might choose
                                                        to block me as a
                                                        network, but
                                                        that is also
                                                        your right. <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        The reason
                                                        internet is
                                                        called INTER-NET
                                                        is because of
                                                        its
                                                        decentralized
                                                        nature, you have
                                                        to play nice for
                                                        others to play
                                                        with you, but
                                                        this community
                                                        never forces
                                                        anyone to play
                                                        nice, it is not
                                                        in the scope of
                                                        AFRINIC to
                                                        decide how
                                                        members reply to
                                                        their abuse
                                                        mailbox, so if
                                                        8.3,8.4, 8.5 and
                                                        8.6 are deleted
                                                        in its entirety,
                                                        I might consider
                                                        supporting it.
                                                        Also Jordi, I
                                                        feel you always
                                                        have this
                                                        central
                                                        management type
                                                        of thinking, and
                                                        that is so not
                                                        internet.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        It is not in the
                                                        scope of any RIR
                                                        how anyone
                                                        manage people's<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        mailboxes.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Nobody exists
                                                        alone in the
                                                        Internet. If an
                                                        organization<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        hypothetically
                                                        doesn't care at
                                                        all and refuses
                                                        to respond to
                                                        abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        emails it
                                                        probably should
                                                        re-think its
                                                        existence in the
                                                        Internet<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        business.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        The Internet is
                                                        what is among
                                                        many reasons
                                                        because of the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        cooperation
                                                        among its
                                                        organizations,
                                                        and there are
                                                        certain rules<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        that are agreed
                                                        cooperatively
                                                        and must be
                                                        observed by
                                                        everyone<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        willing remain
                                                        on it, otherwise
                                                        it may in many
                                                        cases cause
                                                        serious<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        damage to those
                                                        willing to
                                                        operate in
                                                        serious manner
                                                        and keep it a<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        healthy place to
                                                        most people who
                                                        depend on it.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        This forum is
                                                        about setting
                                                        rules on how
                                                        registration
                                                        information<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        about resources
                                                        are kept and it
                                                        may be of the
                                                        wish of the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        community to
                                                        refuse keep
                                                        registration for
                                                        those who
                                                        repetitively<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        abuse of their
                                                        individual
                                                        rights.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Fernando<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
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                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Regards,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Lamiaa<br>
                                                        <br>
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                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Le ven. 18 sept.
                                                        2020 ? 09:23,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        JORDI PALET
                                                        MARTINEZ via RPD
                                                        <<a
                                                          href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a ?crit :<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Hi Lamiaa,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I don?t agree.
                                                        Internet doesn't
                                                        depend on<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        any
                                                        jurisdiction;
                                                        abuse is about
                                                        what I (the
                                                        victim<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        operator)
                                                        consider abuse.
                                                        The RFC is clear
                                                        about that,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        in short
                                                        ?Inappropriate
                                                        public
                                                        behaviour? (is a<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        mailbox so to be
                                                        able to contact
                                                        in case there is
                                                        a<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        possible
                                                        inappropriate
                                                        behaviour in the
                                                        public<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Internet). If
                                                        you want a
                                                        clearer
                                                        definition,
                                                        abuse is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        *anything* that
                                                        I don?t want to
                                                        accept in my<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        network because
                                                        is in any way
                                                        damaging it.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        If I don?t want
                                                        to accept a DoS,
                                                        or spam,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        or phising,
                                                        DMCA, or
                                                        whatever, this
                                                        is abuse *for<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        me*. I?ve the
                                                        right to tell
                                                        you because that<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        abuse is coming
                                                        from your
                                                        network. If you
                                                        believe that<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        is not abuse
                                                        (and here is
                                                        your
                                                        jurisdiction in
                                                        some<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        cases, in other
                                                        just doesn?t
                                                        exist, but it
                                                        may be also<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        your ?business?
                                                        decision ? like
                                                        operators that
                                                        don?t<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        care if their
                                                        customers do
                                                        spam or
                                                        intrusion<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        attempts),
                                                        you?ve the right
                                                        to tell me
                                                        ?sorry, this is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        not abuse for
                                                        us?, and then
                                                        I?ve the right
                                                        to decide<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        if I should
                                                        filter your
                                                        network based on
                                                        your<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        response.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Not having an
                                                        abuse contact,
                                                        means that<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I?m not able to
                                                        contact you, so
                                                        we can?t talk,
                                                        we<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        can?t
                                                        investigate or
                                                        agree if it is
                                                        an abuse or not,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        so you (the
                                                        offender
                                                        operator) don?t
                                                        have the chance<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        to decide about
                                                        it! Is bad for
                                                        you, is bad for
                                                        me. In<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        those cases, my
                                                        best choice is
                                                        to filter you.
                                                        This<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        create problems
                                                        for your
                                                        customers and my
                                                        customers.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        We can?t depend
                                                        on
                                                        jurisdictions,
                                                        because<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        then the policy
                                                        will need to
                                                        consider
                                                        inter-relations<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        among every
                                                        possible ?pairs?
                                                        of country
                                                        worlds, and we<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        will need to
                                                        update the
                                                        policy based on
                                                        any<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        jurisdiction
                                                        change. The
                                                        policy is not
                                                        about that, is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        about having a
                                                        valid
                                                        responsible
                                                        contact, not
                                                        about<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        deciding what is
                                                        an abuse, which
                                                        is among the two<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        parties.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Tell me what is
                                                        different from
                                                        AFRINIC<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        than the rest of
                                                        the world,
                                                        because none of
                                                        the RIRs<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        have defined
                                                        abuse in their
                                                        policies. I even
                                                        don?t<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        recall that
                                                        having appeared
                                                        in the
                                                        discussions!<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        If<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        you want, I?m
                                                        happy to change
                                                        the title of the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        proposal to
                                                        ?supposed abuse
                                                        contact?, that
                                                        may be<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        clearing your
                                                        point?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Again,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        this is not
                                                        about defining
                                                        what is abuse,
                                                        this is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        among the
                                                        parties. It is
                                                        about making
                                                        sure that<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        there is a valid
                                                        responsible
                                                        contact in case
                                                        of<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        anyone needs to
                                                        report what he
                                                        considers an
                                                        abuse.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        AFRINIC will not
                                                        punish anyone
                                                        that believes
                                                        that<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        his customer is
                                                        not doing an
                                                        abuse because in
                                                        his<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        country is not
                                                        an abuse.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Regards,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Jordi<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        @jordipalet<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        El<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        18/9/20 9:59,
                                                        "Lamiaa Chnayti"
                                                        <<a
                                                          href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        escribi?:<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Hello<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Jordi,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        RFC2142<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        only defines a
                                                        tiny portion of
                                                        the network
                                                        abuse. In<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        real world
                                                        operation, abuse
                                                        consists of a 
                                                        much<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        boarder range :
                                                        DMCA(copy
                                                        rights) claims,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        unsolicited
                                                        emails ,
                                                        phishing 
                                                        websites , trade
                                                        mark<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        disputes etc. <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        All<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        those are legal
                                                        issues that vary
                                                        vastly across<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        different
                                                        juridictions in
                                                        which no one but
                                                        each of<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the
                                                        juridiction?s
                                                        judges can
                                                        decide if it is
                                                        an<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        abuse or an
                                                        illegal
                                                        activity.
                                                        Claiming that
                                                        RFC2142<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        defines not even
                                                        1% of real world
                                                        abuse is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        laughable.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Regards,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Lamiaa<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Le jeu.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        17 sept. 2020 ?
                                                        15:51, JORDI
                                                        PALET MARTINEZ
                                                        via<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        RPD <<a
                                                          href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        a ?crit :<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Hi<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Lamiaa,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I?ve<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        said this
                                                        already. This
                                                        policy doesn?t<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        enforce abuse,
                                                        it enforces that
                                                        the abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        contact is
                                                        there, and
                                                        works.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Today<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        AFRINIC is
                                                        paying for the
                                                        cost of the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        abuse handling
                                                        because only a
                                                        tiny<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        fraction of the
                                                        members has the
                                                        abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        contacts in
                                                        place.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        If<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the contacts in
                                                        the RIR database
                                                        aren?t<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        actual and
                                                        accurate, this
                                                        is a clear<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        violation of the
                                                        RSA. So what is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        unacceptable is
                                                        not having the
                                                        contacts,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        not on the other
                                                        way around.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        is not defined
                                                        by the RIRs,
                                                        everybody<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        knows it and
                                                        this is the
                                                        reason why NONE<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        of the RIRs have
                                                        re-defined it,
                                                        because it<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        is already
                                                        stated in
                                                        RFC2142. Can you<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        justify why
                                                        AFRINIC is
                                                        different and
                                                        need<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        a definition?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        How<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        you define it in
                                                        the networks
                                                        that you<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        operate?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Regards,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Jordi<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        @jordipalet<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        El 17/9/20<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        10:49, "Lamiaa
                                                        Chnayti" <<a
href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        escribi?:<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Hello,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        will have to
                                                        agree with
                                                        Lucilla on what<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        she said and
                                                        would like to
                                                        add to it<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        that :<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Firstly, Abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        enforcement is
                                                        out of scope for
                                                        RIRs.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Secondly, RIRs<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        have no ability
                                                        to define what
                                                        is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        ?abuse?, one
                                                        abuse or even
                                                        criminal<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        activity could
                                                        be entirely a
                                                        legal<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        operation in a
                                                        different
                                                        jurisdiction.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Finally, making<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        a member
                                                        forcefully reply
                                                        to abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        contact Emails
                                                        are a waste of
                                                        resources<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        and totally
                                                        pointless, it is
                                                        entirely up<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        to the member to
                                                        define what they
                                                        think<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        is acceptable in
                                                        their network
                                                        operation<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        and how they
                                                        react to it.
                                                        AFRINIC has no<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        mandate to force
                                                        any member to
                                                        reply to<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        an ?abuse?,
                                                        since AFRINIC
                                                        doesn?t even<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        have the ability
                                                        to identify what
                                                        is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        considered an
                                                        abuse.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Therefore the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        entire policy is
                                                        out of scope for
                                                        the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        RIR operation.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Regards,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Lamiaa<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Le jeu. 17<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        sept. 2020 ?
                                                        07:42, JORDI
                                                        PALET MARTINEZ<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        via RPD <<a
                                                          href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        a ?crit :<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Hi Lucilla,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Today we already
                                                        have<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        mnt-IRT, and
                                                        everybody who
                                                        operate<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        networks
                                                        understand what
                                                        it is an<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        abuse. If you
                                                        operate networks
                                                        you<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        know that
                                                        *anything* which<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        is a
                                                        non-authorized
                                                        use of a<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        network is an
                                                        abuse.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        If you send
                                                        spam,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        attack networks,
                                                        try to intrude<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        networks, etc.,
                                                        all those are<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        abuse.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        What the policy
                                                        ask<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        is to make sure
                                                        that in AFRINIC<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        everybody has an
                                                        abuse contact<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        (today we have
                                                        mnt-IRT, but is
                                                        not<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        mandatory, and
                                                        as a results
                                                        many<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        African networks
                                                        are filtered<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        because lack of
                                                        that ? and<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        consequently
                                                        they do not
                                                        respond<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        to abuse cases
                                                        -, which exist
                                                        in<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        all the other
                                                        regions of the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        world).<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Not having an
                                                        abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        means more
                                                        chances of legal<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        actions, more
                                                        cost, for both
                                                        the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        victims and the
                                                        ISPs. Having<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        that means that
                                                        you have more<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        chances to
                                                        resolve it in<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        goodfaith.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        One of the *most<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        important*
                                                        Afrinic<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        missions is to
                                                        have accuracy on<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the database,
                                                        which includes<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        accuracy on the
                                                        contacts. We are<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        not fulfilling
                                                        that in this<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        situation.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Remember that
                                                        *all*<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the other RIRs
                                                        have already
                                                        this<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        kind of policy.
                                                        This one is like<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the one that has
                                                        been<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        implemented in
                                                        APNIC, and the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        accuracy of the
                                                        contacts is now<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        87.5% as
                                                        reported this
                                                        month in<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the last APNIC
                                                        meeting. In that<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        report *none* of
                                                        the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        members
                                                        indicated any of
                                                        the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        issues that you
                                                        indicated<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        (didn't happened
                                                        as well in the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        other regions).<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        You know who is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        interested in
                                                        not having abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        contacts? Those
                                                        that use their<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        networks for
                                                        doing abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        (hijacking,
                                                        spam, DoS,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        intrusions,
                                                        etc.).<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Can you explain
                                                        if<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the network that
                                                        you operate has<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        an abuse contact
                                                        an how if one<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        of your customes
                                                        is trying to<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        penetrate my
                                                        network or do a<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        DoS, I will be
                                                        able to contact<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        you and if you
                                                        will do anything<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        or just ignore
                                                        it?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Regards,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Jordi<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        @jordipalet<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        El<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        17/9/20 2:21,
                                                        "lucilla
                                                        fornaro"<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <<a
                                                          href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        escribi?:<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Dear<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        all,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        have some
                                                        concerns about
                                                        the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        ?Abuse Contact
                                                        Policy?.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        First<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        of all, it does
                                                        not offer a<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        specific and
                                                        regulated<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        description of
                                                        the term<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        ?abuse?  and
                                                        this opens the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        door to
                                                        potentially
                                                        bigger<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        problems: a
                                                        surplus of<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        reports,
                                                        discrimination/legal<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        issues, and a
                                                        waste of<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        resources.
                                                        Around the
                                                        world,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        we can perceive
                                                        what abuse is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        in very
                                                        different ways.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Afrinic<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        is not entitled
                                                        to force<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        members to
                                                        report abuses
                                                        and<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        most
                                                        importantly,
                                                        this<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        proposal does
                                                        not represent<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Afrinic?s
                                                        purpose.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        therefore,
                                                        oppose this
                                                        policy.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Thank<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        you,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Lucilla <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        <br>
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                                                          href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
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                                                        <br>
**********************************************<br>
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                                                        IPv4 is over<br>
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                                                        Are you ready
                                                        for the new
                                                        Internet ?<br>
                                                        <br>
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                                                          href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        The IPv6 Company<br>
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                                                        This electronic
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                                                        The information
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                                                        exclusive use<br>
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                                                        of the
                                                        individual(s)
                                                        named above and<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        further
                                                        non-explicilty
                                                        authorized<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        disclosure,
                                                        copying,
                                                        distribution or<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        use of the
                                                        contents of this<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        information,
                                                        even if
                                                        partially,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        including
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                                                        will be
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                                                        <br>
                                                        criminal
                                                        offense. If you
                                                        are not the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        intended
                                                        recipient be
                                                        aware that any<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        disclosure,
                                                        copying,
                                                        distribution or<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        use of the
                                                        contents of this<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        information,
                                                        even if
                                                        partially,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        including
                                                        attached files,
                                                        is strictly<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        prohibited, will
                                                        be considered a<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        criminal
                                                        offense, so you
                                                        must reply to<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the original
                                                        sender to inform
                                                        about<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        this
                                                        communication
                                                        and delete it.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        RPD mailing list<br>
                                                        <br>
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                                                          href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
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                                                          href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
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**********************************************<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        IPv4 is over<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Are you ready
                                                        for the new
                                                        Internet ?<br>
                                                        <br>
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                                                        <br>
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                                                          href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
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                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        The IPv6 Company<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
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                                                        This electronic
                                                        message contains
                                                        information<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        which may be
                                                        privileged or
                                                        confidential.
                                                        The<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        information is
                                                        intended to be
                                                        for the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        exclusive use of
                                                        the
                                                        individual(s)
                                                        named above<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        and further
                                                        non-explicilty
                                                        authorized<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        disclosure,
                                                        copying,
                                                        distribution or
                                                        use of<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the contents of
                                                        this
                                                        information,
                                                        even if<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        partially,
                                                        including
                                                        attached files,
                                                        is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        strictly
                                                        prohibited and
                                                        will be
                                                        considered a<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        criminal
                                                        offense. If you
                                                        are not the
                                                        intended<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        recipient be
                                                        aware that any
                                                        disclosure,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        copying,
                                                        distribution or
                                                        use of the
                                                        contents<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        of this
                                                        information,
                                                        even if
                                                        partially,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        including
                                                        attached files,
                                                        is strictly<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        prohibited, will
                                                        be considered a
                                                        criminal<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        offense, so you
                                                        must reply to
                                                        the original<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        sender to inform
                                                        about this
                                                        communication
                                                        and<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        delete it.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
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                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        RPD mailing list<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                                        <br>
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                                                        <br>
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                                                        <a
                                                          href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
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                                                        <br>
                                                        Le jeu.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        17 sept. 2020 ?
                                                        15:49, JORDI
                                                        PALET MARTINEZ
                                                        via<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        RPD <<a
                                                          href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        a ?crit :<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Hi<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Lamiaa,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I?ve<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        said this
                                                        already. This
                                                        policy doesn?t<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        enforce abuse,
                                                        it enforces that
                                                        the abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        contact is
                                                        there, and
                                                        works.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Today<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        AFRINIC is
                                                        paying for the
                                                        cost of the
                                                        abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        handling because
                                                        only a tiny
                                                        fraction of the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        members has the
                                                        abuse contacts
                                                        in place.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        If the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        contacts in the
                                                        RIR database
                                                        aren?t actual<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        and accurate,
                                                        this is a clear
                                                        violation of<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the RSA. So what
                                                        is unacceptable
                                                        is not<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        having the
                                                        contacts, not on
                                                        the other way<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        around.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Abuse is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        not defined by
                                                        the RIRs,
                                                        everybody knows
                                                        it<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        and this is the
                                                        reason why NONE
                                                        of the RIRs<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        have re-defined
                                                        it, because it
                                                        is already<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        stated in
                                                        RFC2142. Can you
                                                        justify why<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        AFRINIC is
                                                        different and
                                                        need a
                                                        definition?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        How you<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        define it in the
                                                        networks that
                                                        you operate?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Regards,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Jordi<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        @jordipalet<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        El 17/9/20<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        10:49, "Lamiaa
                                                        Chnayti" <<a
href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        escribi?:<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Hello,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        will have to
                                                        agree with
                                                        Lucilla on what<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        she said and
                                                        would like to
                                                        add to it that<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        :<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Firstly, Abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        enforcement is
                                                        out of scope for
                                                        RIRs.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Secondly, RIRs<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        have no ability
                                                        to define what
                                                        is ?abuse?,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        one abuse or
                                                        even criminal
                                                        activity could<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        be entirely a
                                                        legal operation
                                                        in a<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        different
                                                        jurisdiction.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Finally, making<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        a member
                                                        forcefully reply
                                                        to abuse contact<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Emails are a
                                                        waste of
                                                        resources and<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        totally
                                                        pointless, it is
                                                        entirely up to<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the member to
                                                        define what they
                                                        think is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        acceptable in
                                                        their network
                                                        operation and<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        how they react
                                                        to it. AFRINIC
                                                        has no<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        mandate to force
                                                        any member to
                                                        reply to an<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        ?abuse?, since
                                                        AFRINIC doesn?t
                                                        even have<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the ability to
                                                        identify what is
                                                        considered<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        an abuse.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Therefore the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        entire policy is
                                                        out of scope for
                                                        the RIR<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        operation.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Regards,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Lamiaa<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Le jeu. 17<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        sept. 2020 ?
                                                        07:42, JORDI
                                                        PALET MARTINEZ<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        via RPD <<a
                                                          href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        a ?crit :<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Hi<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Lucilla,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Today<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        we already have
                                                        mnt-IRT, and<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        everybody who
                                                        operate networks<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        understand what
                                                        it is an abuse.
                                                        If<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        you operate
                                                        networks you
                                                        know that
                                                        *anything*<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        which is a
                                                        non-authorized
                                                        use of a<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        network is an
                                                        abuse.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        If<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        you send spam,
                                                        attack networks,
                                                        try<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        to intrude
                                                        networks, etc.,
                                                        all those<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        are abuse.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        What<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the policy ask
                                                        is to make sure
                                                        that<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        in AFRINIC
                                                        everybody has an
                                                        abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        contact (today
                                                        we have mnt-IRT,
                                                        but<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        is not
                                                        mandatory, and
                                                        as a results<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        many African
                                                        networks are
                                                        filtered<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        because lack of
                                                        that ? and<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        consequently
                                                        they do not
                                                        respond to<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        abuse cases -,
                                                        which exist in
                                                        all<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the other
                                                        regions of the
                                                        world).<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Not having an
                                                        abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        means more
                                                        chances of legal<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        actions, more
                                                        cost, for both
                                                        the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        victims and the
                                                        ISPs. Having
                                                        that<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        means that you
                                                        have more
                                                        chances<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        to resolve it in
                                                        goodfaith.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        One of the *most<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        important*
                                                        Afrinic missions<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        is to have
                                                        accuracy on the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        database, which
                                                        includes
                                                        accuracy<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        on the contacts.
                                                        We are not<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        fulfilling that
                                                        in this
                                                        situation.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Remember that
                                                        *all*<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the other RIRs
                                                        have already
                                                        this<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        kind of policy.
                                                        This one is like<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the one that has
                                                        been implemented<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        in APNIC, and
                                                        the accuracy of
                                                        the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        contacts is now
                                                        87.5% as
                                                        reported<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        this month in
                                                        the last APNIC<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        meeting. In that
                                                        report *none*<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        of the members
                                                        indicated any of<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the issues that
                                                        you indicated<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        (didn't happened
                                                        as well in the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        other regions).<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        You know who is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        interested in
                                                        not having abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        contacts? Those
                                                        that use their<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        networks for
                                                        doing abuse<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        (hijacking,
                                                        spam, DoS,
                                                        intrusions,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        etc.).<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Can you explain
                                                        if<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the network that
                                                        you operate has<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        an abuse contact
                                                        an how if one of<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        your customes is
                                                        trying to<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        penetrate my
                                                        network or do a
                                                        DoS,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I will be able
                                                        to contact you
                                                        and<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        if you will do
                                                        anything or just<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        ignore it?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Regards,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Jordi<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        @jordipalet<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        El<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        17/9/20 2:21,
                                                        "lucilla
                                                        fornaro"<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <<a
                                                          href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        escribi?:<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Dear<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        all,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        have some
                                                        concerns about
                                                        the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        ?Abuse Contact
                                                        Policy?.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        First<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        of all, it does
                                                        not offer a<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        specific and
                                                        regulated<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        description of
                                                        the term ?abuse?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                         and this opens
                                                        the door to<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        potentially
                                                        bigger problems:
                                                        a<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        surplus of
                                                        reports,<br>
                                                        <br>
discrimination/legal issues, and<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        a waste of
                                                        resources.
                                                        Around the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        world, we can
                                                        perceive what<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        abuse is in very
                                                        different ways.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Afrinic<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        is not entitled
                                                        to force members<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        to report abuses
                                                        and most<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        importantly,
                                                        this proposal
                                                        does<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        not represent
                                                        Afrinic?s
                                                        purpose.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        therefore,
                                                        oppose this
                                                        policy.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Thank<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        you,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Lucilla <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        RPD mailing list
                                                        <a
                                                          href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
**********************************************<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        IPv4 is over<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Are you ready
                                                        for the new
                                                        Internet ?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        The IPv6 Company<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        This electronic
                                                        message contains<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        information
                                                        which may be
                                                        privileged or<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        confidential.
                                                        The information
                                                        is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        intended to be
                                                        for the
                                                        exclusive use of<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the
                                                        individual(s)
                                                        named above and<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        further
                                                        non-explicilty
                                                        authorized<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        disclosure,
                                                        copying,
                                                        distribution or
                                                        use<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        of the contents
                                                        of this
                                                        information,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        even if
                                                        partially,
                                                        including
                                                        attached<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        files, is
                                                        strictly
                                                        prohibited and
                                                        will<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        be considered a
                                                        criminal
                                                        offense. If you<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        are not the
                                                        intended
                                                        recipient be
                                                        aware<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        that any
                                                        disclosure,
                                                        copying,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        distribution or
                                                        use of the
                                                        contents of<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        this
                                                        information,
                                                        even if
                                                        partially,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        including
                                                        attached files,
                                                        is strictly<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        prohibited, will
                                                        be considered a<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        criminal
                                                        offense, so you
                                                        must reply to<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the original
                                                        sender to inform
                                                        about this<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        communication
                                                        and delete it.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        RPD mailing list<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
**********************************************<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        IPv4 is over<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Are you ready
                                                        for the new
                                                        Internet ?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        The IPv6 Company<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        This electronic
                                                        message contains
                                                        information<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        which may be
                                                        privileged or
                                                        confidential.
                                                        The<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        information is
                                                        intended to be
                                                        for the
                                                        exclusive<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        use of the
                                                        individual(s)
                                                        named above and
                                                        further<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        non-explicilty
                                                        authorized
                                                        disclosure,
                                                        copying,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        distribution or
                                                        use of the
                                                        contents of this<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        information,
                                                        even if
                                                        partially,
                                                        including<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        attached files,
                                                        is strictly
                                                        prohibited and
                                                        will<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        be considered a
                                                        criminal
                                                        offense. If you
                                                        are not<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        the intended
                                                        recipient be
                                                        aware that any<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        disclosure,
                                                        copying,
                                                        distribution or
                                                        use of the<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        contents of this
                                                        information,
                                                        even if
                                                        partially,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        including
                                                        attached files,
                                                        is strictly<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        prohibited, will
                                                        be considered a
                                                        criminal<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        offense, so you
                                                        must reply to
                                                        the original<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        sender to inform
                                                        about this
                                                        communication
                                                        and<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        delete it.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        RPD mailing list<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        -- <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Lamiaa<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        CHNAYTI<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
**********************************************<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        IPv4 is over<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Are you ready
                                                        for the new
                                                        Internet ?<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        The IPv6 Company<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        This electronic
                                                        message contains
                                                        information
                                                        which may be<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        privileged or
                                                        confidential.
                                                        The information
                                                        is intended to<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        be for the
                                                        exclusive use of
                                                        the
                                                        individual(s)
                                                        named above<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        and further
                                                        non-explicilty
                                                        authorized
                                                        disclosure,
                                                        copying,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        distribution or
                                                        use of the
                                                        contents of this
                                                        information,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        even if
                                                        partially,
                                                        including
                                                        attached files,
                                                        is strictly<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        prohibited and
                                                        will be
                                                        considered a
                                                        criminal
                                                        offense. If you<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        are not the
                                                        intended
                                                        recipient be
                                                        aware that any
                                                        disclosure,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        copying,
                                                        distribution or
                                                        use of the
                                                        contents of this<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        information,
                                                        even if
                                                        partially,
                                                        including
                                                        attached files,
                                                        is<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        strictly
                                                        prohibited, will
                                                        be considered a
                                                        criminal
                                                        offense,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        so you must
                                                        reply to the
                                                        original sender
                                                        to inform about<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        this
                                                        communication
                                                        and delete it.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        RPD mailing list<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        RPD mailing list<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        RPD mailing list<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        -- <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Lamiaa CHNAYTI<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list <a
                                                          href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a
                                                          href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
**********************************************<br>
                                                        IPv4 is over<br>
                                                        Are you ready
                                                        for the new
                                                        Internet ?<br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                                                        The IPv6 Company<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        This electronic
                                                        message contains
                                                        information
                                                        which may be
                                                        privileged or
                                                        confidential.
                                                        The information
                                                        is intended to
                                                        be for the
                                                        exclusive use of
                                                        the
                                                        individual(s)
                                                        named above and
                                                        further
                                                        non-explicilty
                                                        authorized
                                                        disclosure,
                                                        copying,
                                                        distribution or
                                                        use of the
                                                        contents of this
                                                        information,
                                                        even if
                                                        partially,
                                                        including
                                                        attached files,
                                                        is strictly
                                                        prohibited and
                                                        will be
                                                        considered a
                                                        criminal
                                                        offense. If you
                                                        are not the
                                                        intended
                                                        recipient be
                                                        aware that any
                                                        disclosure,
                                                        copying,
                                                        distribution or
                                                        use of the
                                                        contents of this
                                                        information,
                                                        even if
                                                        partially,
                                                        including
                                                        attached files,
                                                        is strictly
                                                        prohibited, will
                                                        be considered a
                                                        criminal
                                                        offense, so you
                                                        must reply to
                                                        the original
                                                        sender to inform
                                                        about this
                                                        communication
                                                        and delete it.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        --------------
                                                        next part
                                                        --------------<br>
                                                        An HTML
                                                        attachment was
                                                        scrubbed...<br>
                                                        URL: <<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20200921/38d79b2f/attachment.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20200921/38d79b2f/attachment.html</a>><br>
                                                        <br>
------------------------------<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Subject: Digest
                                                        Footer<br>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        RPD mailing list<br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                                        <a
                                                          href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        <br>
------------------------------<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        End of RPD
                                                        Digest, Vol 168,
                                                        Issue 143<br>
*************************************</p>
                                                    </blockquote>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><br>
**********************************************<br>
                                                IPv4 is over<br>
                                                Are you ready for the
                                                new Internet ?<br>
                                                <a
                                                  href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                                                  target="_blank"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                                                The IPv6 Company<br>
                                                <br>
                                                This electronic message
                                                contains information
                                                which may be privileged
                                                or confidential. The
                                                information is intended
                                                to be for the exclusive
                                                use of the individual(s)
                                                named above and further
                                                non-explicilty
                                                authorized disclosure,
                                                copying, distribution or
                                                use of the contents of
                                                this information, even
                                                if partially, including
                                                attached files, is
                                                strictly prohibited and
                                                will be considered a
                                                criminal offense. If you
                                                are not the intended
                                                recipient be aware that
                                                any disclosure, copying,
                                                distribution or use of
                                                the contents of this
                                                information, even if
                                                partially, including
                                                attached files, is
                                                strictly prohibited,
                                                will be considered a
                                                criminal offense, so you
                                                must reply to the
                                                original sender to
                                                inform about this
                                                communication and delete
                                                it.</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                                              style="margin-left:141.6pt">_______________________________________________<br>
                                              RPD mailing list<br>
                                              <a
                                                href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                              <a
                                                href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
                                          </blockquote>
                                        </div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
                                        <pre style="margin-left:141.6pt">_______________________________________________</pre>
                                        <pre style="margin-left:141.6pt">RPD mailing list</pre>
                                        <pre style="margin-left:141.6pt"><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a></pre>
                                        <pre style="margin-left:141.6pt"><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></pre>
                                      </blockquote>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:141.6pt">_______________________________________________
                                        RPD mailing list <a
                                          href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
                                        <a
                                          href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
                                      </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                                        style="margin-left:106.2pt"><br>
**********************************************<br>
                                        IPv4 is over<br>
                                        Are you ready for the new
                                        Internet ?<br>
                                        <a
                                          href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                                        The IPv6 Company<br>
                                        <br>
                                        This electronic message contains
                                        information which may be
                                        privileged or confidential. The
                                        information is intended to be
                                        for the exclusive use of the
                                        individual(s) named above and
                                        further non-explicilty
                                        authorized disclosure, copying,
                                        distribution or use of the
                                        contents of this information,
                                        even if partially, including
                                        attached files, is strictly
                                        prohibited and will be
                                        considered a criminal offense.
                                        If you are not the intended
                                        recipient be aware that any
                                        disclosure, copying,
                                        distribution or use of the
                                        contents of this information,
                                        even if partially, including
                                        attached files, is strictly
                                        prohibited, will be considered a
                                        criminal offense, so you must
                                        reply to the original sender to
                                        inform about this communication
                                        and delete it.<br>
                                        <br>
_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list <a
                                          href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
                                        <a
                                          href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
                                      </p>
                                    </div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
                                      style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
**********************************************<br>
                                      IPv4 is over<br>
                                      Are you ready for the new Internet
                                      ?<br>
                                      <a
                                        href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                                      The IPv6 Company<br>
                                      <br>
                                      This electronic message contains
                                      information which may be
                                      privileged or confidential. The
                                      information is intended to be for
                                      the exclusive use of the
                                      individual(s) named above and
                                      further non-explicilty authorized
                                      disclosure, copying, distribution
                                      or use of the contents of this
                                      information, even if partially,
                                      including attached files, is
                                      strictly prohibited and will be
                                      considered a criminal offense. If
                                      you are not the intended recipient
                                      be aware that any disclosure,
                                      copying, distribution or use of
                                      the contents of this information,
                                      even if partially, including
                                      attached files, is strictly
                                      prohibited, will be considered a
                                      criminal offense, so you must
                                      reply to the original sender to
                                      inform about this communication
                                      and delete it.</p>
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                    style="margin-left:70.8pt">_______________________________________________<br>
                                    RPD mailing list<br>
                                    <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                    <a
                                      href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="margin-left:70.8pt">_______________________________________________<br>
                                RPD mailing list<br>
                                <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                <a
                                  href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                          style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
                          **********************************************<br>
                          IPv4 is over<br>
                          Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
                          <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                          The IPv6 Company<br>
                          <br>
                          This electronic message contains information
                          which may be privileged or confidential. The
                          information is intended to be for the
                          exclusive use of the individual(s) named above
                          and further non-explicilty authorized
                          disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
                          the contents of this information, even if
                          partially, including attached files, is
                          strictly prohibited and will be considered a
                          criminal offense. If you are not the intended
                          recipient be aware that any disclosure,
                          copying, distribution or use of the contents
                          of this information, even if partially,
                          including attached files, is strictly
                          prohibited, will be considered a criminal
                          offense, so you must reply to the original
                          sender to inform about this communication and
                          delete it.</p>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <br>
                **********************************************<br>
                IPv4 is over<br>
                Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
                <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                The IPv6 Company<br>
                <br>
                This electronic message contains information which may
                be privileged or confidential. The information is
                intended to be for the exclusive use of the
                individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
                authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
                the contents of this information, even if partially,
                including attached files, is strictly prohibited and
                will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not
                the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure,
                copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
                information, even if partially, including attached
                files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a
                criminal offense, so you must reply to the original
                sender to inform about this communication and delete it.<br>
                <br>
              </div>
              _______________________________________________<br>
              RPD mailing list<br>
              <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
              <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          RPD mailing list<br>
          <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
            moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
          <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
            rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>