<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Hi Frank,<div>See comment inline</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 5:15 PM Frank Habicht <<a href="mailto:geier@geier.ne.tz">geier@geier.ne.tz</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear chairs,<br>
<br>
On 21/09/2020 08:32, Frank Habicht wrote:<br>
> Dear chairs,<br>
> <br>
> On 21/09/2020 03:04, ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE wrote:<br>
>> 6. Abuse Contact Update<br>
>><br>
>> The proposal makes it mandatory for AFRINIC to include in each resource<br>
>> registration, a contact where network abuse from users of those<br>
>> resources will be reported. The proposal whois DB attribute (abuse-c)<br>
>> to be used to publish abuse public contact information. There’s also a<br>
>> process to ensure that the recipient must receive abuse report and that<br>
>> contacts are validated by AFRINIC regularly. However, there some<br>
>> opposition to the proposal there are:<br>
>><br>
>> a. Staff analysis on how it affects legacy holder not<br>
>> conclusive (not sure why this should affect legacy holders)<br>
>><br>
>> b. The proposal doesn’t state what will be the<br>
>> consequences of one member fails to comply. Why are we creating the<br>
>> abuse contact when there is no consequence for not providing the abuse<br>
>> contact<br>
>><br>
>> c. Abuse contact email and issues with GDPR concerning<br>
>> the whois database<br>
>><br>
>> d. No proper definition of the term Abuse<br>
>><br>
>> e. To force members to reply to their abuse email is<br>
>> not in the scope of AFRINIC.<br>
>><br>
>> Chairs Decision: No rough consensus<br>
> <br>
> About d. "No proper definition of the term Abuse"<br>
> yes, this was mentioned several times by members opposing.<br>
> The proposal is about "abuse contacts". it is not about what "abuse" is.<br>
> there is no need for a definition of "abuse".<br>
> In my humble opinion the request for a definition of abuse is off-topic.<br>
><br>
> Question: if someone makes a proposal about lame DNS servers in domain<br>
> objects for Reverse-DNS, and I object arguing that a definition of RPKI<br>
> is needed - what would you do with this argument?<br>
> Q2: can arguments about a proposal be irrelevant to this proposal?<br></blockquote><div><font color="#ff0000">Yes</font> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
> Q3: was that the case here? were arguments, that a definition for abuse<br>
> is required, irrelevant?<br></blockquote><div><font color="#ff0000">No, cos the proposal is about abuse</font></div><div><font color="#ff0000"> </font></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
> I request chairs' response to Q2 and Q3.<br>
<br>
Dear chairs, requesting a response.<br>
Note: chairs said this was a point of opposition.<br>
I argue that this was an irrelevant point.<br>
<br>
> About e. "To force members to reply to their abuse email is not in the<br>
> scope of AFRINIC."<br>
> Yes, that was mentioned several times.<br>
> And also this is something the proposal does not do and does not attempt.<br>
> And all the comments about (d.) above apply.<br>
<br>
How can people complain that the proposal does something, when the<br>
proposal doesn't do that?<br>
How can that be a valid objections?<br>
Chairs?<br>
<br>
> If irrelevant objections are taken as valid arguments, please note that<br>
> I foresee that any future proposal can get rejected and the PDP will be<br>
> stuck.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> About c. "Abuse contact email and issues with GDPR concerning the whois<br>
> database"<br>
> - I didn't see that on the mailing list, can you remind us, or was that<br>
> only during the live session?<br>
> - there are other contact information in whois. can staff confirm<br>
> whether AfriNIC are GDPR compliant?<br>
<br>
AfriNIC staff: above is a question for you.<br>
yes, I think I know the answer, but maybe the ones arguing that this is<br>
a problem with the proposed policy don't know the answer.<br>
<br>
> - would that status change if abuse contacts would be added?<br>
<br>
same... AfriNIC staff, please help.<br>
<br>
<br>
> About b. "The proposal doesn’t state what will be the consequences of<br>
> one member fails to comply. Why are we creating the abuse contact when<br>
> there is no consequence for not providing the abuse contact"<br>
> - I can imagine that AfriNIC would include in their meeting<br>
> presentations information regarding how big (in measurable terms) this<br>
> problem is.<br>
> - from that the WG can discuss and decide if more actions are necessary.<br>
<br>
Chairs, does my above answer sufficiently address the point b. of<br>
opposition that you had listed as relevant?<br>
<br>
<br>
> About a. "Staff analysis on how it affects legacy holder not conclusive<br>
> (not sure why this should affect legacy holders)"<br>
> I didn't see that before, but as is tradition in my part of the world,<br>
> let me respond to the question with a question:<br>
> Are legacy holders subject to any for the PDWG's policies?<br>
<br>
Madhvi, please help: does any policy affect legacy holders?<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Frank<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div></div>
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