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    <p>+1</p>
    <p>It is so obvious how much damage not having a minimum wait time
      can make to the resources in the region versus the 'benefits' that
      I find it really hard to understand how people keep defending not
      having any waiting period and let things loose. <br>
    </p>
    <p>I think it is enough the fraud cases regarding resources,
      specially the one that happened in the region to say having these
      breaks is something positive to majority of organizations and make
      sure resources go to those who really justify them to get people
      connected to the internet, not just to speculate from them.</p>
    <p>Regards<br>
      Fernando<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24/09/2020 08:14, JORDI PALET
      MARTINEZ via RPD wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:87A20978-3CFE-430B-BE26-B28B3C7FA207@consulintel.es">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US">Hi Ekaterina,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 24/9/20
              12:25, "Ekaterina Kalugina" <<a
                href="mailto:kay.k.prof@gmail.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true">kay.k.prof@gmail.com</a>>
              escribió:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt">Hey everyone,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><a
                  href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">@JORDI PALET MARTINEZ</a> <span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt">you said, and I quote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt">>"An ISP will not need to
                  return even a /22 because he loses 1.024 customers as
                  he can get them back, this is very common customer
                  churn in a matter of weeks (even days or hours for big
                  ISPs)."<br>
                  <br>
                  In this case, ISP would not need to bother with
                  resource transfer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US">[Jordi] At the beginning of the transfers
                  in other regions, I was *<b>against</b>* that. In my
                  opinion when operators don’t need the resources, they
                  should return them back to the RIR. BUT we all know,
                  that people is not so honest, and this will only
                  happen in an utopic and idealistic world and moreover,
                  this will still need some “agreement” between
                  different RIRs to allow those resources that are
                  returned to be “transferred” among RIRs. Due to facts,
                  afterwards I realized that this is a need for the
                  global community and that’s why I agreed with those
                  policies, and even started to work on them as an
                  author. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"><br>
                  <br>
                  However, I believe a situation may occur when the ISP
                  is unable to distribute the allocated resources for
                  whatever reason. </span><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt">Even if we cannot predict the
                  reason we must still account for such contingency.
                  And, in such case, it does not make sense to block
                  these resources for 12 months from being transferred
                  to a place where they are actually needed. This would
                  be detrimental to everyone involved. <br>
                  <br>
                  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US">[Jordi] I don’t agree. A transfer may
                  take several weeks or even months. It depends on many
                  factors, like the justification time among the RIRs,
                  providing documents, etc. Even if you discover that in
                  month 3 after you have received a /22, you no longer
                  need it (which I doubt it can be true), this means
                  that the resources will be “unused” during other 6-7
                  months. I could agree that the hold time is just 6-8
                  months instead of 12, but non zero is difficult,
                  because the cost of “not-being-able to use those
                  resources” for any number of providers is actually *<b>lower</b>*
                  than the cost of a single recovery case!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"><br>
                  In regard to your statement:<br>
                  "However, a “bad guy” will easily use that as an
                  excuse to transfer the resources in days or weeks."<br>
                </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Like Anthony and
                  Lucilla mentioned before, such action would be a clear
                  act of fraud.I do not see any reason why anyone would
                  willingly commit such a violation. "Bad guys" are not
                  stupid, and if someone wants to take an advantage of
                  AFRINIC, they will, and I do not think the 12 months
                  cap would prevent that in any way. <br>
                  <br>
                  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US">[Jordi] Just look at the histories of
                  frauds in all the RIRs! This is real life. Holding the
                  resources for 12 months, breaks their business model.
                  It makes sense because it is quick money and you can
                  do it with a very tiny fraction of money, once and
                  again and again, rotating among different RIRs, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"><br>
                  The only thing it would achieve, in my view, is slow
                  down the flow of resources and create stagnations that
                  could be more costly than any retrieval procedures in
                  case of fraud.<br>
                  <br>
                  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
                  lang="EN-US">[Jordi] To be objective, we will need to
                  get statistics of “speed” of transfers among different
                  RIRs, number of frauds or fraud attempts, etc., etc.,
                  etc. and many of those details probably are sensitive
                  and the RIRs will not recognize that, even if
                  anonymized. There have been fraud cases in RIPE, which
                  everybody knows by word of mouth, but it has never
                  published …<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                  style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"><br>
                  But of course, staff assessment is needed to have full
                  clarity of this issue.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt">Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt">Kay</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On Thu, Sep
              24, 2020 at 9:05 AM Gaby Giner <<a
                href="mailto:gabyginernetwork@gmail.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true">gabyginernetwork@gmail.com</a>>
              wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
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            6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Hello
                  guys,<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">This
                  discussion is very interesting seeing that it deals
                  with the most probable or likely outcome with those
                  that would want to take advantage of the system. We
                  can only wish that the clients would be completely
                  honest with their need, but of course, if they are
                  inclined to lie, there is no mechanism that would stop
                  them from doing so. I would suggest that the proposal
                  include a means or a way to authenticate the need but
                  that would be more trouble than it is worth and would
                  not be entirely foolproof. <o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Since we
                  are dealing with finite and scarce resources, it's
                  important that the way they are doled out should be
                  systematic and measured and not just "I need this. I
                  need this, give me this". Having said that, I think
                  having a time limit would also cause traffic for the
                  "need". Regardless, as Lucilla said, these are
                  hypothetical scenarios and questions but they may be
                  worth getting into.<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">I'm
                  interested in what the staff/authors would have to say
                  on this matter.<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Thanks,
                  Gaby.<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On Thu,
                  Sep 24, 2020, 2:59 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD,
                  <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
                  wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
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                6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">I mean a
                        non-realistic situation. An ISP will not need to
                        return even a /22 because he loses 1.024
                        customers as he can get them back, this is very
                        common customer churn in a matter of weeks (even
                        days or hours for big ISPs).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">However, a
                        “bad guy” will easily use that as an excuse to
                        transfer the resources in days or weeks.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:35.4pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt">El
                          24/9/20 8:29, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD"
                          <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
                          escribió:<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">Exactly,
                        if you really have that situation you can return
                        them and be fair.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">Anyway,
                        the example that I’ve presented is a
                        non-realistic suggestion. It is not frequent
                        that an operator loses customers in such way. It
                        is just the perfect excuse for “bad guys” to get
                        resources and resell them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">Remember
                        also that in the actual exhaustion phase, they
                        can only get a maximum of a /22.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                          style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                          lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt">El
                          24/9/20 4:03, "Fernando Frediani" <<a
                            href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
                          escribió:<o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <p style="margin-left:106.2pt">We can make in
                      another way: if someone justifies and receives
                      resources from AfriNic but afterwards realizes
                      something changed and doesn't need those addresses
                      anymore it must give the addresses back to AfriNic
                      so it can re-distribute it in the most fair way to
                      any other organization who goes though the same
                      justification process. Why is it difficult to
                      think about this fairness with all others in the
                      region ?<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p style="margin-left:106.2pt">Fernando<o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt">On
                        23/09/2020 22:22, lucilla fornaro wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote
                      style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt">Hello
                              everyone,<o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt">I
                              agree with what concerns the problem of
                              the time limit. Companies will refrain
                              from such behavior because it is too risky
                              and indicative of possible fraud.<o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt">Jordi,
                              Considering your example related to the
                              customers' loss, I think that it is
                              adverse for the operator to wait 12 months
                              before transferring the addresses. What is
                              the point in holding addresses that they
                              will not be able to use and deprive
                              someone else of further resources? What if
                              they don’t get new customers? What if they
                              lose even more customers? Too many
                              hypothetical questions, that is why I
                              believe it is more straightforward and
                              more convenient for everyone to facilitate
                              the process.<o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt">I
                              agree that recovery processes are
                              expensive and time-consuming, but we can
                              say the same for those unused resources.<o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt">As
                              well as you, I would like to know the
                              staff’s view on this.<o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt">Lucilla <o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt">Il
                            giorno mer 23 set 2020 alle ore 21:14 JORDI
                            PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
                              href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
                            ha scritto:<o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                          #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                  style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US">Hi
                                  Anthony,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                  style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">I think *<b>somehow</b>*
                                    you’re right, clearly I overlooked
                                    this.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">We don’t need a time
                                    limit to transfer resrources because
                                    that will be a demonstration of the
                                    “the need was not justified”.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">However, the problem of
                                    this approach is that if it happens,
                                    the staff *<b>will need to start a
                                      recovery process</b>* which is
                                    long, costly and a big trouble.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">What happens if the *<b>false</b>*
                                    justification for the transfer is: I
                                    had the need 6 months ago, but then
                                    I lost customers and now I don’t
                                    need anymore the space, so I’m
                                    transfering it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">What happens if the
                                    same operator, repeat that after
                                    another 6 months? There are ways to
                                    one and again *<b>justify the need</b>*
                                    and it is, instead, very dificult
                                    for the staff to act on the RSA for
                                    recovery and member closure in those
                                    cases.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">On the other way
                                    around, what is the “objection” if
                                    we have that hold time? I can only
                                    see one: If the example above (I
                                    lost customers) happens, the
                                    operator need to wait until month 12
                                    before transfering the addresses. Is
                                    that really so bad? Or it is good
                                    because he may get new customers
                                    again?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">I think the trade-off
                                    is to have a good balance and ensure
                                    that we avoid this happening and
                                    requiring the staff to invest
                                    resources in an investigation and
                                    recovery.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">Could the staff provide
                                    a view on this?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">Regarding the legacy.
                                    Yes, ARIN and RIPE don’t have it (I
                                    think APNIC has it, LACNIC
                                    definitively has it). AFRINIC has it
                                    right now. We are removing a very
                                    good thing.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">Why it is so good?
                                    Because legacy holders aren’t bound
                                    to the RIRs RSAs, so that’s
                                    extremely bad for the overall
                                    community. They don’t pay for *<b>services</b>*
                                    that all the RIRs are doing for
                                    them, so all the members are
                                    covering that part of the cost.
                                    They’re not bound to RIR policies,
                                    so they can break the rules of the
                                    community all the time and we have
                                    no way to react on that.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">I don’t agree on the
                                    point of the disputed resources,
                                    I’ve the feeling that somehow in the
                                    process of editing the v2, it was
                                    removed by mistake and we should
                                    have it back. The difference in
                                    between rightful holder and having a
                                    dispute, is depending on who is
                                    saying that, in case of a dispute. I
                                    will love also to have the staff
                                    opinion on that.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">As well, can the impact
                                    analysis be made clear? Is that all
                                    fine for the staff after having
                                    checked with authors each point?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">Please, let’s make this
                                    happen!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">Jordi</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"
                                    lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              </div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                  style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt"><span
                                  style="font-size:12.0pt" lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt">El
                                    21/9/20 18:10, "Anthony Ubah" <<a
href="mailto:ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">ubah.tonyiyke@gmail.com</a>>
                                    escribió:<o:p></o:p></p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt">Hello
                                    Jordi,<br>
                                    <br>
                                    We can sight an instance with APNIC
                                    as a case study. APNIC has a
                                    transfer policy that doesn’t have a
                                    time limit for retransferring
                                    resources and time proves to us that
                                    it works.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    According to APNIC, the act of
                                    buying space and reselling it right
                                    after the purchase seems to be
                                    highly unlikely because of two
                                    reasons.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    First of all, most companies buy
                                    space for their own use, and hence a
                                    commodity trading type of business
                                    doesn’t exist in the IP space
                                    involved.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Secondly, since the buyer is
                                    required to justify the need of a
                                    12-month usage, if he/she engages in
                                    an activity such as buying the space
                                    and then reselling it right after,
                                    this indicative of fraud because it
                                    contravenes the “NEED” which is a
                                    prerequisite for receiving such
                                    space. This simply implies that the
                                    so-called “NEED” which they provided
                                    was fake. Hence, companies will
                                    refrain from engaging in such
                                    behaviour.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    As for the legacy transfer, I
                                    believe both ARIN and RIPE have the
                                    cases of a transferred legacy space
                                    remained as a legacy. APNIC may be
                                    different, but I think this is just
                                    a different sort of opinion and
                                    should not be read as an objection.
                                    Also, what matters the most is that
                                    if we follow ARIN, we can receive
                                    space from them. Definitely this is
                                    a significant advantage.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    As for the disputed resources, since
                                    AFRINIC have to know who the
                                    rightful holder of the spaces are
                                    before transferring them. I don’t
                                    think this would be a concern
                                    because AFRINIC is not able to
                                    initiate a transfer for space that
                                    is under dispute. However, this is a
                                    legal matter and is already out of
                                    the scope of the policy.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt;line-height:150%"><b><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Garamond",serif">Anthony
                                                    Ubah</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
                                              <p
                                                style="margin-left:141.6pt;line-height:150%"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#999999">E-mail: </span><a
href="mailto:anthony.ubah@gloworld.com" target="_blank"
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">anthony.ubah@goldspine.com</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#999999">.ng</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                <div>
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt">On
                                      Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:00 AM <<a
href="mailto:rpd-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">rpd-request@afrinic.net</a>>
                                      wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote
                                    style="border:none;border-left:solid
                                    #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:141.6pt">Send
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                                      When replying, please edit your
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                                      digest..."<br>
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                                      <br>
                                      Today's Topics:<br>
                                      <br>
                                         1. AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02 -
                                      Resource Transfer Policy<br>
                                            (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)<br>
                                         2. Re: Abuse Contact Policy
                                      (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Message: 1<br>
                                      Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2020 10:34:13
                                      +0200<br>
                                      From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a
href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
                                      To: rpd List <<a
                                        href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
                                      Subject: [rpd]
                                      AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02 -
                                      Resource Transfer Policy<br>
                                      Message-ID: <<a
                                        href="mailto:8873E491-A0A7-4506-A490-13C6B6E67A7D@consulintel.es"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">8873E491-A0A7-4506-A490-13C6B6E67A7D@consulintel.es</a>><br>
                                      Content-Type: text/plain;
                                      charset="utf-8"<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Hi all,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      I will be happy to support this
                                      proposal and withdraw my own one,
                                      but *before* I?ve some questions
                                      about this decision that need to
                                      be addressed first (see below,
                                      in-line).<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      10.   Resource Transfer Policy<br>
                                      <br>
                                      This proposal aims to introduce
                                      Inter RIR transfer. However, it
                                      has the following opposition <br>
                                      <br>
                                      a.                   Issues with
                                      Legacy holder transfer is
                                      potentially considered
                                      none-reciprocal by ARIN<br>
                                      <br>
                                      b.                  Potential
                                      abuse of AFRINIC free pool without
                                      the time limit of receiving an
                                      allocation from AFRINIC.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Chairs Decision: The proposal is
                                      the least contested of all the 3
                                      competing proposals. However
                                      because of the community?s desire
                                      and clear expression for the  need
                                      for an Inter RIR transfer, we, the
                                      Co-chairs, believe that in the
                                      interest of the community we
                                      should focus on a proposal rather
                                      than several similar ones. This
                                      desire was clearly expressed at
                                      the AFRINIC 31 meeting in Angola.
                                      Therefore, We suggest that the
                                      authors of this proposal make the
                                      following amendments: <br>
                                      <br>
                                      ?         5.7.3.2  Source entities
                                      are not eligible to receive
                                      further IPv4 allocations or
                                      assignments from AFRINIC for 12
                                      months period after the transfer.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      [Jordi] This is perfect, and in
                                      fact is what I?ve. Just different
                                      timing to match phase 2 window x
                                      2, but not a big issue. However,
                                      we are missing something that was
                                      also objected by the community and
                                      I think is key to avoid abuse.
                                      Actual text in the CPM ?5.7.3.3
                                      Source entities must not have
                                      received a transfer, allocation,
                                      or assignment of IPv4 number
                                      resources from AFRINIC for the 12
                                      months prior to the approval of
                                      transfer request. This restriction
                                      excludes mergers and acquisitions
                                      transfers.?. This is no longer
                                      considered by this proposal, and
                                      in my opinion it is a MUST.
                                      Doesn?t make any sense that
                                      someone is getting resources from
                                      AFRINIC and being able to transfer
                                      them immediately! Can please the
                                      chairs also address this point.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      [Jordi] Can the staff explain the
                                      consequences from their
                                      perspective if we don?t have such
                                      text or something similar? Is even
                                      possible that the board will not
                                      ratify the policy because that,
                                      and we are wasting a previous
                                      time?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      ?         5.7.4.3. Transferred
                                      legacy resources will still be
                                      regarded as legacy resources.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      [Jordi] This is also a major
                                      issue. I?m not sure if the chairs
                                      have understood what was the point
                                      about lack of reciprocity. We
                                      can?t enforce ARIN to accept that
                                      outgoing (to ARIN from AFRINIC)
                                      resources will no longer be
                                      legacy. However the actual CPM
                                      states ?5.7.4.3 Transferred IPv4
                                      legacy resources will no longer be
                                      regarded as legacy resources.?. We
                                      must keep that, because we should
                                      avoid legacy resources to keep
                                      being legacy as much as possible,
                                      because they are NOT BIND to the
                                      CPM. If we accept the chairs
                                      proposal, we are going *backwards*
                                      not forward and we may be creating
                                      a discrimination with already done
                                      transfers within AFRINIC
                                      (Intra-RIR, according to the
                                      current policy). The right text
                                      here must be ?Transferred incoming
                                      or within AFRINIC IPv4 legacy
                                      resources will no longer be
                                      regarded as legacy resources?.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      [Jordi] Finally, there were
                                      several severe comments from the
                                      staff that need to be addressed.
                                      For example, resources under
                                      dispute. That?s a big issue! There
                                      are a few others. I think here we
                                      need to see if the staff got
                                      everything clear from the authors
                                      inputs and if the policy can be
                                      implemented or there will be open
                                      questions that will not allow to
                                      be a functional policy and again,
                                      even disallow the board to ratify
                                      it.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Chairs Decision: Provided that the
                                      above are amended, the decisions
                                      is Rough Consensus is achieved   
                                               <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Regards,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Jordi<br>
                                      <br>
                                      @jordipalet<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
**********************************************<br>
                                      IPv4 is over<br>
                                      Are you ready for the new Internet
                                      ?<br>
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                                        href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                                      The IPv6 Company<br>
                                      <br>
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                                      ------------------------------<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Message: 2<br>
                                      Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2020 11:00:01
                                      +0200<br>
                                      From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <<a
href="mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es" target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">jordi.palet@consulintel.es</a>><br>
                                      To: <<a
                                        href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
                                      Subject: Re: [rpd] Abuse Contact
                                      Policy<br>
                                      Message-ID: <<a
                                        href="mailto:491C1297-8C2D-4939-B339-EDAA80334B24@consulintel.es"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">491C1297-8C2D-4939-B339-EDAA80334B24@consulintel.es</a>><br>
                                      Content-Type: text/plain;
                                      charset="utf-8"<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Hi Lamiaa,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      8.3 and 8.4 are making sure that
                                      you respond to an abuse case,
                                      *not* that you *recognize* it as
                                      an abuse. It is your choice to
                                      tell the ?victim ISP?, look for me
                                      this is not an abuse, so I will
                                      not do anything about it.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      AFRINIC can?t verify this
                                      automatically, because it doesn?t
                                      make sense that AFRINIC is
                                      ?sending? fake abuse reports to
                                      see if they get a response.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      AFRINIC can only send an email for
                                      the validation of the mailbox. It
                                      is an existing mailbox? I?m
                                      getting a response (for example,
                                      have they, once I send the
                                      validation email, clicked the link
                                      or went into MyAfrinic to input
                                      the validation code?).<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      8.4 also states the timing for the
                                      validation.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      8.5 is the validation itself, so I
                                      guess, according to your response,
                                      that you?re ok with this specific
                                      point. If we don?t have it,
                                      AFRINIC can?t do a periodic
                                      validation.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      8.6. is making sure that you don?t
                                      try to fake the validation. For
                                      instance, you could respond only
                                      to AFRINIC validations and then
                                      discard all the other emails. If
                                      we don?t have that, the policy may
                                      become useless. Note also that in
                                      fact, if you follow the RSA,
                                      *anyone* could escalate *any* lack
                                      of CPM compliance. So this is
                                      making sure that the policy text
                                      is honest and transparent.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Or do you prefer to be filtered
                                      because you don?t respond?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Clearly this proposal is not
                                      asking AFRINIC to be a police. Is
                                      only making sure that the parties
                                      *can talk*. Again: AFRINIC will
                                      not be involved in ?how you handle
                                      the case?, but I least you should
                                      be able to be contacted and
                                      respond.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      See this example:<br>
                                      <br>
                                      If AK or Moses customers are
                                      sending me spam, or trying to
                                      intrude my network, and they have
                                      abuse contacts, I will be able to
                                      complain to them. Then we have two
                                      cases:<br>
                                      <br>
                                      1.   Moses responds to me and say
                                      ?you?re right, this is against our
                                      AUP? (is irrelevant what the law
                                      in Moses country say, it is the
                                      contract with customers what says
                                      what is allowed or not). Let?s fix
                                      it. I will warn the customer, and
                                      if they don?t stop, we will filter
                                      their email port, or even cancel
                                      the contract (just examples, only
                                      Moses can decide what they do).<br>
                                      <br>
                                      2.   AK instead doesn?t care, or
                                      the mailbox is full or bouncing
                                      emails or respond ?sorry in our
                                      network we allow that?. Then I can
                                      take my own decision, filter only
                                      that IP address, or the complete
                                      AK network. I can even see if this
                                      is allowed in his country and take
                                      legal actions (which usually you
                                      don?t do because is costly and
                                      more of the regulations don?t know
                                      ?anything? about abuse or even
                                      Internet!).<br>
                                      <br>
                                      AFRINIC will not take any measure
                                      if AK decides that is not an
                                      abuse. It is our problem not
                                      AFRINIC problem. However, if the
                                      email is bouncing, AFRINIC will
                                      revalidate the abuse-c and make
                                      sure that it works.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Is like a phone book. You have
                                      there the phones and they must be
                                      correct, or you need to update
                                      them every ?n? months. The phone
                                      book doesn?t tell the purpose of
                                      each phone. If you don?t want to
                                      accept calls related to ?ordering
                                      pizzas?, you tell the caller ?this
                                      number is not for that?, but at
                                      least you must pick up the phone
                                      otherwise, you don?t know if it is
                                      somebody calling by error or
                                      someone that you really want to
                                      talk. And this is true for *every*
                                      whois contact.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Can you let us know how do you
                                      handle it in the networks that you
                                      operate?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Regards,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Jordi<br>
                                      <br>
                                      @jordipalet<br>
                                      <br>
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                                      El 21/9/20 10:00, "Lamiaa Chnayti"
                                      <<a
                                        href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>>
                                      escribi?:<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Hi Fernando, <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      I think you are very confused. I
                                      never said I have a problem with
                                      people completing their
                                      registration. Keep
                                      registration---having an abuse
                                      contact Email in the whois, just
                                      like tech contact or admin
                                      contact--I am perfectly fine with
                                      it, and I think the current policy
                                      achieves 99% it, if you want to
                                      add this contact as mandatory
                                      field I am fine with it as well.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                       But the problem of this policy in
                                      8.3-8.6, is that it requires
                                      AFRINIC to monitor the members HOW
                                      to manage their abuse mailbox down
                                      to the subject line,  and that is
                                      out of the scope of AFRINIC, just
                                      read my last email with logic in
                                      mind and you will understand. I
                                      suggest this policy should be very
                                      simple,  adding one line to the
                                      current policy-- abuse contact is
                                      mandatory, and it's done,
                                      everything else should be deleted.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      And again, you are trying to use
                                      AFRINIC for something that is not
                                      in its scope, how someone manages
                                      their mailbox is not in the scope
                                      of AFRINIC, it is like you go to
                                      your local church to ask them to
                                      arrest your neighbour who plays
                                      loud music at night when you
                                      should go to police instead. Same
                                      thing for someone running an
                                      abusive network, as many already
                                      stated, it is up to a local Jury
                                      to decide if it is simply at an
                                      annoying level or a criminal
                                      offense, but either way please do
                                      go to your local police to report
                                      it.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      As for the internet, we never tell
                                      you how to behave--you are
                                      entirely at your rights in the
                                      internet to behave abusively, but
                                      it is also entirely in everyone's
                                      rights to block you, that's how
                                      de-centralizing works, no central
                                      governing, everyone plays nice
                                      because that's the only way for
                                      everyone else to play with you,
                                      and this policy here asks AFRINIC
                                      to act like a central government
                                      even down to manage people's
                                      mailbox's subject line and that is
                                      way beyond what internet meant to
                                      be.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Regards,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Lamiaa<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Le dim. 20 sept. 2020 ? 23:42,
                                      Fernando Frediani <<a
                                        href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
                                      a ?crit :<br>
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                                      <br>
                                      On 19/09/2020 13:19, Lamiaa
                                      Chnayti wrote:<br>
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                                      How is it in the scope of AFRINIC
                                      to decide how I manage my abuse
                                      mailbox? If I want to reply only
                                      to a specific subject line of my
                                      abuse box, it is entirely in my
                                      right to do. Even if I don't want
                                      to reply at the abuse mailbox at
                                      all, that is my right to do so and
                                      if I think no action in my network
                                      would be considered abuse
                                      (although unlikely), but it is
                                      still from  the internet community
                                      point of view, entirely in my
                                      right to do so. You might choose
                                      to block me as a network, but that
                                      is also your right. <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      The reason internet is called
                                      INTER-NET is because of its
                                      decentralized nature, you have to
                                      play nice for others to play with
                                      you, but this community never
                                      forces anyone to play nice, it is
                                      not in the scope of AFRINIC to
                                      decide how members reply to their
                                      abuse mailbox, so if 8.3,8.4, 8.5
                                      and 8.6 are deleted in its
                                      entirety, I might consider
                                      supporting it. Also Jordi, I feel
                                      you always have this central
                                      management type of thinking, and
                                      that is so not internet.<br>
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                                      It is not in the scope of any RIR
                                      how anyone manage people's<br>
                                      <br>
                                      mailboxes.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Nobody exists alone in the
                                      Internet. If an organization<br>
                                      <br>
                                      hypothetically doesn't care at all
                                      and refuses to respond to abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      emails it probably should re-think
                                      its existence in the Internet<br>
                                      <br>
                                      business.<br>
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                                      The Internet is what is among many
                                      reasons because of the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      cooperation among its
                                      organizations, and there are
                                      certain rules<br>
                                      <br>
                                      that are agreed cooperatively and
                                      must be observed by everyone<br>
                                      <br>
                                      willing remain on it, otherwise it
                                      may in many cases cause serious<br>
                                      <br>
                                      damage to those willing to operate
                                      in serious manner and keep it a<br>
                                      <br>
                                      healthy place to most people who
                                      depend on it.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      This forum is about setting rules
                                      on how registration information<br>
                                      <br>
                                      about resources are kept and it
                                      may be of the wish of the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      community to refuse keep
                                      registration for those who
                                      repetitively<br>
                                      <br>
                                      abuse of their individual rights.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Fernando<br>
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                                      <br>
                                      Regards,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Lamiaa<br>
                                      <br>
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                                      Le ven. 18 sept. 2020 ? 09:23,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a
                                        href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
                                      a ?crit :<br>
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                                      Hi Lamiaa,<br>
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                                      I don?t agree. Internet doesn't
                                      depend on<br>
                                      <br>
                                      any jurisdiction; abuse is about
                                      what I (the victim<br>
                                      <br>
                                      operator) consider abuse. The RFC
                                      is clear about that,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      in short ?Inappropriate public
                                      behaviour? (is a<br>
                                      <br>
                                      mailbox so to be able to contact
                                      in case there is a<br>
                                      <br>
                                      possible inappropriate behaviour
                                      in the public<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Internet). If you want a clearer
                                      definition, abuse is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      *anything* that I don?t want to
                                      accept in my<br>
                                      <br>
                                      network because is in any way
                                      damaging it.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      If I don?t want to accept a DoS,
                                      or spam,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      or phising, DMCA, or whatever,
                                      this is abuse *for<br>
                                      <br>
                                      me*. I?ve the right to tell you
                                      because that<br>
                                      <br>
                                      abuse is coming from your network.
                                      If you believe that<br>
                                      <br>
                                      is not abuse (and here is your
                                      jurisdiction in some<br>
                                      <br>
                                      cases, in other just doesn?t
                                      exist, but it may be also<br>
                                      <br>
                                      your ?business? decision ? like
                                      operators that don?t<br>
                                      <br>
                                      care if their customers do spam or
                                      intrusion<br>
                                      <br>
                                      attempts), you?ve the right to
                                      tell me ?sorry, this is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      not abuse for us?, and then I?ve
                                      the right to decide<br>
                                      <br>
                                      if I should filter your network
                                      based on your<br>
                                      <br>
                                      response.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Not having an abuse contact, means
                                      that<br>
                                      <br>
                                      I?m not able to contact you, so we
                                      can?t talk, we<br>
                                      <br>
                                      can?t investigate or agree if it
                                      is an abuse or not,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      so you (the offender operator)
                                      don?t have the chance<br>
                                      <br>
                                      to decide about it! Is bad for
                                      you, is bad for me. In<br>
                                      <br>
                                      those cases, my best choice is to
                                      filter you. This<br>
                                      <br>
                                      create problems for your customers
                                      and my customers.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
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                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      We can?t depend on jurisdictions,
                                      because<br>
                                      <br>
                                      then the policy will need to
                                      consider inter-relations<br>
                                      <br>
                                      among every possible ?pairs? of
                                      country worlds, and we<br>
                                      <br>
                                      will need to update the policy
                                      based on any<br>
                                      <br>
                                      jurisdiction change. The policy is
                                      not about that, is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      about having a valid responsible
                                      contact, not about<br>
                                      <br>
                                      deciding what is an abuse, which
                                      is among the two<br>
                                      <br>
                                      parties.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Tell me what is different from
                                      AFRINIC<br>
                                      <br>
                                      than the rest of the world,
                                      because none of the RIRs<br>
                                      <br>
                                      have defined abuse in their
                                      policies. I even don?t<br>
                                      <br>
                                      recall that having appeared in the
                                      discussions!<br>
                                      <br>
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                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      If<br>
                                      <br>
                                      you want, I?m happy to change the
                                      title of the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      proposal to ?supposed abuse
                                      contact?, that may be<br>
                                      <br>
                                      clearing your point?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Again,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      this is not about defining what is
                                      abuse, this is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      among the parties. It is about
                                      making sure that<br>
                                      <br>
                                      there is a valid responsible
                                      contact in case of<br>
                                      <br>
                                      anyone needs to report what he
                                      considers an abuse.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      AFRINIC will not punish anyone
                                      that believes that<br>
                                      <br>
                                      his customer is not doing an abuse
                                      because in his<br>
                                      <br>
                                      country is not an abuse.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Regards,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Jordi<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      @jordipalet<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      El<br>
                                      <br>
                                      18/9/20 9:59, "Lamiaa Chnayti"
                                      <<a
                                        href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                      <br>
                                      escribi?:<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Hello<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Jordi,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      RFC2142<br>
                                      <br>
                                      only defines a tiny portion of the
                                      network abuse. In<br>
                                      <br>
                                      real world operation, abuse
                                      consists of a  much<br>
                                      <br>
                                      boarder range : DMCA(copy rights)
                                      claims,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      unsolicited emails , phishing 
                                      websites , trade mark<br>
                                      <br>
                                      disputes etc. <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      All<br>
                                      <br>
                                      those are legal issues that vary
                                      vastly across<br>
                                      <br>
                                      different juridictions in which no
                                      one but each of<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the juridiction?s judges can
                                      decide if it is an<br>
                                      <br>
                                      abuse or an illegal activity.
                                      Claiming that RFC2142<br>
                                      <br>
                                      defines not even 1% of real world
                                      abuse is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      laughable.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Regards,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Lamiaa<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Le jeu.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      17 sept. 2020 ? 15:51, JORDI PALET
                                      MARTINEZ via<br>
                                      <br>
                                      RPD <<a
                                        href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
                                      <br>
                                      a ?crit :<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Hi<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Lamiaa,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      I?ve<br>
                                      <br>
                                      said this already. This policy
                                      doesn?t<br>
                                      <br>
                                      enforce abuse, it enforces that
                                      the abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      contact is there, and works.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Today<br>
                                      <br>
                                      AFRINIC is paying for the cost of
                                      the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      abuse handling because only a tiny<br>
                                      <br>
                                      fraction of the members has the
                                      abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      contacts in place.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      If<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the contacts in the RIR database
                                      aren?t<br>
                                      <br>
                                      actual and accurate, this is a
                                      clear<br>
                                      <br>
                                      violation of the RSA. So what is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      unacceptable is not having the
                                      contacts,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      not on the other way around.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      is not defined by the RIRs,
                                      everybody<br>
                                      <br>
                                      knows it and this is the reason
                                      why NONE<br>
                                      <br>
                                      of the RIRs have re-defined it,
                                      because it<br>
                                      <br>
                                      is already stated in RFC2142. Can
                                      you<br>
                                      <br>
                                      justify why AFRINIC is different
                                      and need<br>
                                      <br>
                                      a definition?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      How<br>
                                      <br>
                                      you define it in the networks that
                                      you<br>
                                      <br>
                                      operate?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Regards,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Jordi<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      @jordipalet<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      El 17/9/20<br>
                                      <br>
                                      10:49, "Lamiaa Chnayti" <<a
                                        href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                      <br>
                                      escribi?:<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
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                                      <br>
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                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Hello,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      I<br>
                                      <br>
                                      will have to agree with Lucilla on
                                      what<br>
                                      <br>
                                      she said and would like to add to
                                      it<br>
                                      <br>
                                      that :<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Firstly, Abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      enforcement is out of scope for
                                      RIRs.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Secondly, RIRs<br>
                                      <br>
                                      have no ability to define what is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      ?abuse?, one abuse or even
                                      criminal<br>
                                      <br>
                                      activity could be entirely a legal<br>
                                      <br>
                                      operation in a different
                                      jurisdiction.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Finally, making<br>
                                      <br>
                                      a member forcefully reply to abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      contact Emails are a waste of
                                      resources<br>
                                      <br>
                                      and totally pointless, it is
                                      entirely up<br>
                                      <br>
                                      to the member to define what they
                                      think<br>
                                      <br>
                                      is acceptable in their network
                                      operation<br>
                                      <br>
                                      and how they react to it. AFRINIC
                                      has no<br>
                                      <br>
                                      mandate to force any member to
                                      reply to<br>
                                      <br>
                                      an ?abuse?, since AFRINIC doesn?t
                                      even<br>
                                      <br>
                                      have the ability to identify what
                                      is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      considered an abuse.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Therefore the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      entire policy is out of scope for
                                      the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      RIR operation.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Regards,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Lamiaa<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Le jeu. 17<br>
                                      <br>
                                      sept. 2020 ? 07:42, JORDI PALET
                                      MARTINEZ<br>
                                      <br>
                                      via RPD <<a
                                        href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
                                      <br>
                                      a ?crit :<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Hi Lucilla,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Today we already have<br>
                                      <br>
                                      mnt-IRT, and everybody who operate<br>
                                      <br>
                                      networks understand what it is an<br>
                                      <br>
                                      abuse. If you operate networks you<br>
                                      <br>
                                      know that *anything* which<br>
                                      <br>
                                      is a non-authorized use of a<br>
                                      <br>
                                      network is an abuse.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      If you send spam,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      attack networks, try to intrude<br>
                                      <br>
                                      networks, etc., all those are<br>
                                      <br>
                                      abuse.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      What the policy ask<br>
                                      <br>
                                      is to make sure that in AFRINIC<br>
                                      <br>
                                      everybody has an abuse contact<br>
                                      <br>
                                      (today we have mnt-IRT, but is not<br>
                                      <br>
                                      mandatory, and as a results many<br>
                                      <br>
                                      African networks are filtered<br>
                                      <br>
                                      because lack of that ? and<br>
                                      <br>
                                      consequently they do not respond<br>
                                      <br>
                                      to abuse cases -, which exist in<br>
                                      <br>
                                      all the other regions of the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      world).<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Not having an abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      means more chances of legal<br>
                                      <br>
                                      actions, more cost, for both the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      victims and the ISPs. Having<br>
                                      <br>
                                      that means that you have more<br>
                                      <br>
                                      chances to resolve it in<br>
                                      <br>
                                      goodfaith.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      One of the *most<br>
                                      <br>
                                      important* Afrinic<br>
                                      <br>
                                      missions is to have accuracy on<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the database, which includes<br>
                                      <br>
                                      accuracy on the contacts. We are<br>
                                      <br>
                                      not fulfilling that in this<br>
                                      <br>
                                      situation.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Remember that *all*<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the other RIRs have already this<br>
                                      <br>
                                      kind of policy. This one is like<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the one that has been<br>
                                      <br>
                                      implemented in APNIC, and the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      accuracy of the contacts is now<br>
                                      <br>
                                      87.5% as reported this month in<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the last APNIC meeting. In that<br>
                                      <br>
                                      report *none* of the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      members indicated any of the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      issues that you indicated<br>
                                      <br>
                                      (didn't happened as well in the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      other regions).<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      You know who is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      interested in not having abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      contacts? Those that use their<br>
                                      <br>
                                      networks for doing abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      (hijacking, spam, DoS,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      intrusions, etc.).<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Can you explain if<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the network that you operate has<br>
                                      <br>
                                      an abuse contact an how if one<br>
                                      <br>
                                      of your customes is trying to<br>
                                      <br>
                                      penetrate my network or do a<br>
                                      <br>
                                      DoS, I will be able to contact<br>
                                      <br>
                                      you and if you will do anything<br>
                                      <br>
                                      or just ignore it?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Regards,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Jordi<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      @jordipalet<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      El<br>
                                      <br>
                                      17/9/20 2:21, "lucilla fornaro"<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <<a
                                        href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                      <br>
                                      escribi?:<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Dear<br>
                                      <br>
                                      all,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      I<br>
                                      <br>
                                      have some concerns about the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      ?Abuse Contact Policy?.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      First<br>
                                      <br>
                                      of all, it does not offer a<br>
                                      <br>
                                      specific and regulated<br>
                                      <br>
                                      description of the term<br>
                                      <br>
                                      ?abuse?  and this opens the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      door to potentially bigger<br>
                                      <br>
                                      problems: a surplus of<br>
                                      <br>
                                      reports, discrimination/legal<br>
                                      <br>
                                      issues, and a waste of<br>
                                      <br>
                                      resources. Around the world,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      we can perceive what abuse is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      in very different ways.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Afrinic<br>
                                      <br>
                                      is not entitled to force<br>
                                      <br>
                                      members to report abuses and<br>
                                      <br>
                                      most importantly, this<br>
                                      <br>
                                      proposal does not represent<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Afrinic?s purpose.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      I,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      therefore, oppose this policy.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
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                                      <br>
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                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Thank<br>
                                      <br>
                                      you,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Lucilla <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                      <br>
                                      RPD mailing list <a
                                        href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
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                                        href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
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                                      <br>
                                      <br>
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                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
**********************************************<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      IPv4 is over<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Are you ready for the new Internet
                                      ?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a
                                        href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      The IPv6 Company<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
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                                      This electronic message contains<br>
                                      <br>
                                      information which may be
                                      privileged or<br>
                                      <br>
                                      confidential. The information is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      intended to be for the exclusive
                                      use<br>
                                      <br>
                                      of the individual(s) named above
                                      and<br>
                                      <br>
                                      further non-explicilty authorized<br>
                                      <br>
                                      disclosure, copying, distribution
                                      or<br>
                                      <br>
                                      use of the contents of this<br>
                                      <br>
                                      information, even if partially,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      including attached files, is
                                      strictly<br>
                                      <br>
                                      prohibited and will be considered
                                      a<br>
                                      <br>
                                      criminal offense. If you are not
                                      the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      intended recipient be aware that
                                      any<br>
                                      <br>
                                      disclosure, copying, distribution
                                      or<br>
                                      <br>
                                      use of the contents of this<br>
                                      <br>
                                      information, even if partially,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      including attached files, is
                                      strictly<br>
                                      <br>
                                      prohibited, will be considered a<br>
                                      <br>
                                      criminal offense, so you must
                                      reply to<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the original sender to inform
                                      about<br>
                                      <br>
                                      this communication and delete it.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      RPD mailing list<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
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                                      <br>
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                                        href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
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                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
**********************************************<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      IPv4 is over<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Are you ready for the new Internet
                                      ?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a
                                        href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      The IPv6 Company<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      This electronic message contains
                                      information<br>
                                      <br>
                                      which may be privileged or
                                      confidential. The<br>
                                      <br>
                                      information is intended to be for
                                      the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      exclusive use of the individual(s)
                                      named above<br>
                                      <br>
                                      and further non-explicilty
                                      authorized<br>
                                      <br>
                                      disclosure, copying, distribution
                                      or use of<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the contents of this information,
                                      even if<br>
                                      <br>
                                      partially, including attached
                                      files, is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      strictly prohibited and will be
                                      considered a<br>
                                      <br>
                                      criminal offense. If you are not
                                      the intended<br>
                                      <br>
                                      recipient be aware that any
                                      disclosure,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      copying, distribution or use of
                                      the contents<br>
                                      <br>
                                      of this information, even if
                                      partially,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      including attached files, is
                                      strictly<br>
                                      <br>
                                      prohibited, will be considered a
                                      criminal<br>
                                      <br>
                                      offense, so you must reply to the
                                      original<br>
                                      <br>
                                      sender to inform about this
                                      communication and<br>
                                      <br>
                                      delete it.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      RPD mailing list<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
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                                      <br>
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                                      <br>
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                                        href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
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                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Le jeu.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      17 sept. 2020 ? 15:49, JORDI PALET
                                      MARTINEZ via<br>
                                      <br>
                                      RPD <<a
                                        href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
                                      <br>
                                      a ?crit :<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Hi<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Lamiaa,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      I?ve<br>
                                      <br>
                                      said this already. This policy
                                      doesn?t<br>
                                      <br>
                                      enforce abuse, it enforces that
                                      the abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      contact is there, and works.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Today<br>
                                      <br>
                                      AFRINIC is paying for the cost of
                                      the abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      handling because only a tiny
                                      fraction of the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      members has the abuse contacts in
                                      place.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      If the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      contacts in the RIR database
                                      aren?t actual<br>
                                      <br>
                                      and accurate, this is a clear
                                      violation of<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the RSA. So what is unacceptable
                                      is not<br>
                                      <br>
                                      having the contacts, not on the
                                      other way<br>
                                      <br>
                                      around.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Abuse is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      not defined by the RIRs, everybody
                                      knows it<br>
                                      <br>
                                      and this is the reason why NONE of
                                      the RIRs<br>
                                      <br>
                                      have re-defined it, because it is
                                      already<br>
                                      <br>
                                      stated in RFC2142. Can you justify
                                      why<br>
                                      <br>
                                      AFRINIC is different and need a
                                      definition?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      How you<br>
                                      <br>
                                      define it in the networks that you
                                      operate?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Regards,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Jordi<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      @jordipalet<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      El 17/9/20<br>
                                      <br>
                                      10:49, "Lamiaa Chnayti" <<a
                                        href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                      <br>
                                      escribi?:<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Hello,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      I<br>
                                      <br>
                                      will have to agree with Lucilla on
                                      what<br>
                                      <br>
                                      she said and would like to add to
                                      it that<br>
                                      <br>
                                      :<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Firstly, Abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      enforcement is out of scope for
                                      RIRs.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Secondly, RIRs<br>
                                      <br>
                                      have no ability to define what is
                                      ?abuse?,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      one abuse or even criminal
                                      activity could<br>
                                      <br>
                                      be entirely a legal operation in a<br>
                                      <br>
                                      different jurisdiction.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Finally, making<br>
                                      <br>
                                      a member forcefully reply to abuse
                                      contact<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Emails are a waste of resources
                                      and<br>
                                      <br>
                                      totally pointless, it is entirely
                                      up to<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the member to define what they
                                      think is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      acceptable in their network
                                      operation and<br>
                                      <br>
                                      how they react to it. AFRINIC has
                                      no<br>
                                      <br>
                                      mandate to force any member to
                                      reply to an<br>
                                      <br>
                                      ?abuse?, since AFRINIC doesn?t
                                      even have<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the ability to identify what is
                                      considered<br>
                                      <br>
                                      an abuse.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Therefore the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      entire policy is out of scope for
                                      the RIR<br>
                                      <br>
                                      operation.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Regards,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Lamiaa<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Le jeu. 17<br>
                                      <br>
                                      sept. 2020 ? 07:42, JORDI PALET
                                      MARTINEZ<br>
                                      <br>
                                      via RPD <<a
                                        href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
                                      <br>
                                      a ?crit :<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Hi<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Lucilla,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Today<br>
                                      <br>
                                      we already have mnt-IRT, and<br>
                                      <br>
                                      everybody who operate networks<br>
                                      <br>
                                      understand what it is an abuse. If<br>
                                      <br>
                                      you operate networks you know that
                                      *anything*<br>
                                      <br>
                                      which is a non-authorized use of a<br>
                                      <br>
                                      network is an abuse.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      If<br>
                                      <br>
                                      you send spam, attack networks,
                                      try<br>
                                      <br>
                                      to intrude networks, etc., all
                                      those<br>
                                      <br>
                                      are abuse.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      What<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the policy ask is to make sure
                                      that<br>
                                      <br>
                                      in AFRINIC everybody has an abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      contact (today we have mnt-IRT,
                                      but<br>
                                      <br>
                                      is not mandatory, and as a results<br>
                                      <br>
                                      many African networks are filtered<br>
                                      <br>
                                      because lack of that ? and<br>
                                      <br>
                                      consequently they do not respond
                                      to<br>
                                      <br>
                                      abuse cases -, which exist in all<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the other regions of the world).<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Not having an abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      means more chances of legal<br>
                                      <br>
                                      actions, more cost, for both the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      victims and the ISPs. Having that<br>
                                      <br>
                                      means that you have more chances<br>
                                      <br>
                                      to resolve it in goodfaith.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      One of the *most<br>
                                      <br>
                                      important* Afrinic missions<br>
                                      <br>
                                      is to have accuracy on the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      database, which includes accuracy<br>
                                      <br>
                                      on the contacts. We are not<br>
                                      <br>
                                      fulfilling that in this situation.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Remember that *all*<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the other RIRs have already this<br>
                                      <br>
                                      kind of policy. This one is like<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the one that has been implemented<br>
                                      <br>
                                      in APNIC, and the accuracy of the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      contacts is now 87.5% as reported<br>
                                      <br>
                                      this month in the last APNIC<br>
                                      <br>
                                      meeting. In that report *none*<br>
                                      <br>
                                      of the members indicated any of<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the issues that you indicated<br>
                                      <br>
                                      (didn't happened as well in the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      other regions).<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      You know who is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      interested in not having abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      contacts? Those that use their<br>
                                      <br>
                                      networks for doing abuse<br>
                                      <br>
                                      (hijacking, spam, DoS, intrusions,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      etc.).<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Can you explain if<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the network that you operate has<br>
                                      <br>
                                      an abuse contact an how if one of<br>
                                      <br>
                                      your customes is trying to<br>
                                      <br>
                                      penetrate my network or do a DoS,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      I will be able to contact you and<br>
                                      <br>
                                      if you will do anything or just<br>
                                      <br>
                                      ignore it?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Regards,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Jordi<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      @jordipalet<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      El<br>
                                      <br>
                                      17/9/20 2:21, "lucilla fornaro"<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <<a
                                        href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                      <br>
                                      escribi?:<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Dear<br>
                                      <br>
                                      all,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      I<br>
                                      <br>
                                      have some concerns about the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      ?Abuse Contact Policy?.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      First<br>
                                      <br>
                                      of all, it does not offer a<br>
                                      <br>
                                      specific and regulated<br>
                                      <br>
                                      description of the term ?abuse?<br>
                                      <br>
                                       and this opens the door to<br>
                                      <br>
                                      potentially bigger problems: a<br>
                                      <br>
                                      surplus of reports,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      discrimination/legal issues, and<br>
                                      <br>
                                      a waste of resources. Around the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      world, we can perceive what<br>
                                      <br>
                                      abuse is in very different ways.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Afrinic<br>
                                      <br>
                                      is not entitled to force members<br>
                                      <br>
                                      to report abuses and most<br>
                                      <br>
                                      importantly, this proposal does<br>
                                      <br>
                                      not represent Afrinic?s purpose.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      I,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      therefore, oppose this policy.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Thank<br>
                                      <br>
                                      you,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Lucilla <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                      <br>
                                      RPD mailing list <a
                                        href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
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                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
**********************************************<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      IPv4 is over<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Are you ready for the new Internet
                                      ?<br>
                                      <br>
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                                      <a
                                        href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
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                                      The IPv6 Company<br>
                                      <br>
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                                      <br>
                                      <br>
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                                      This electronic message contains<br>
                                      <br>
                                      information which may be
                                      privileged or<br>
                                      <br>
                                      confidential. The information is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      intended to be for the exclusive
                                      use of<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the individual(s) named above and<br>
                                      <br>
                                      further non-explicilty authorized<br>
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                                      disclosure, copying, distribution
                                      or use<br>
                                      <br>
                                      of the contents of this
                                      information,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      even if partially, including
                                      attached<br>
                                      <br>
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                                      will<br>
                                      <br>
                                      be considered a criminal offense.
                                      If you<br>
                                      <br>
                                      are not the intended recipient be
                                      aware<br>
                                      <br>
                                      that any disclosure, copying,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      distribution or use of the
                                      contents of<br>
                                      <br>
                                      this information, even if
                                      partially,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      including attached files, is
                                      strictly<br>
                                      <br>
                                      prohibited, will be considered a<br>
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                                      criminal offense, so you must
                                      reply to<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the original sender to inform
                                      about this<br>
                                      <br>
                                      communication and delete it.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
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                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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                                      RPD mailing list<br>
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**********************************************<br>
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                                      <br>
                                      IPv4 is over<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Are you ready for the new Internet
                                      ?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a
                                        href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
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                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      The IPv6 Company<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
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                                      This electronic message contains
                                      information<br>
                                      <br>
                                      which may be privileged or
                                      confidential. The<br>
                                      <br>
                                      information is intended to be for
                                      the exclusive<br>
                                      <br>
                                      use of the individual(s) named
                                      above and further<br>
                                      <br>
                                      non-explicilty authorized
                                      disclosure, copying,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      distribution or use of the
                                      contents of this<br>
                                      <br>
                                      information, even if partially,
                                      including<br>
                                      <br>
                                      attached files, is strictly
                                      prohibited and will<br>
                                      <br>
                                      be considered a criminal offense.
                                      If you are not<br>
                                      <br>
                                      the intended recipient be aware
                                      that any<br>
                                      <br>
                                      disclosure, copying, distribution
                                      or use of the<br>
                                      <br>
                                      contents of this information, even
                                      if partially,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      including attached files, is
                                      strictly<br>
                                      <br>
                                      prohibited, will be considered a
                                      criminal<br>
                                      <br>
                                      offense, so you must reply to the
                                      original<br>
                                      <br>
                                      sender to inform about this
                                      communication and<br>
                                      <br>
                                      delete it.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      RPD mailing list<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a
                                        href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      -- <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Lamiaa<br>
                                      <br>
                                      CHNAYTI<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
**********************************************<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      IPv4 is over<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Are you ready for the new Internet
                                      ?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a
                                        href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      The IPv6 Company<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      This electronic message contains
                                      information which may be<br>
                                      <br>
                                      privileged or confidential. The
                                      information is intended to<br>
                                      <br>
                                      be for the exclusive use of the
                                      individual(s) named above<br>
                                      <br>
                                      and further non-explicilty
                                      authorized disclosure, copying,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      distribution or use of the
                                      contents of this information,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      even if partially, including
                                      attached files, is strictly<br>
                                      <br>
                                      prohibited and will be considered
                                      a criminal offense. If you<br>
                                      <br>
                                      are not the intended recipient be
                                      aware that any disclosure,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      copying, distribution or use of
                                      the contents of this<br>
                                      <br>
                                      information, even if partially,
                                      including attached files, is<br>
                                      <br>
                                      strictly prohibited, will be
                                      considered a criminal offense,<br>
                                      <br>
                                      so you must reply to the original
                                      sender to inform about<br>
                                      <br>
                                      this communication and delete it.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      RPD mailing list<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a
                                        href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                      <br>
                                      RPD mailing list<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a
                                        href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                      <br>
                                      RPD mailing list<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <a
                                        href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      -- <br>
                                      <br>
                                      Lamiaa CHNAYTI<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list <a
                                        href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
                                      <a
                                        href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
**********************************************<br>
                                      IPv4 is over<br>
                                      Are you ready for the new Internet
                                      ?<br>
                                      <a
                                        href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                                      The IPv6 Company<br>
                                      <br>
                                      This electronic message contains
                                      information which may be
                                      privileged or confidential. The
                                      information is intended to be for
                                      the exclusive use of the
                                      individual(s) named above and
                                      further non-explicilty authorized
                                      disclosure, copying, distribution
                                      or use of the contents of this
                                      information, even if partially,
                                      including attached files, is
                                      strictly prohibited and will be
                                      considered a criminal offense. If
                                      you are not the intended recipient
                                      be aware that any disclosure,
                                      copying, distribution or use of
                                      the contents of this information,
                                      even if partially, including
                                      attached files, is strictly
                                      prohibited, will be considered a
                                      criminal offense, so you must
                                      reply to the original sender to
                                      inform about this communication
                                      and delete it.<br>
                                      <br>
                                      -------------- next part
                                      --------------<br>
                                      An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
                                      URL: <<a
href="https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20200921/38d79b2f/attachment.html"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20200921/38d79b2f/attachment.html</a>><br>
                                      <br>
                                      ------------------------------<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Subject: Digest Footer<br>
                                      <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                      RPD mailing list<br>
                                      <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                                      <a
                                        href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      ------------------------------<br>
                                      <br>
                                      End of RPD Digest, Vol 168, Issue
                                      143<br>
*************************************<o:p></o:p></p>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><br>
**********************************************<br>
                              IPv4 is over<br>
                              Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
                              <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                              The IPv6 Company<br>
                              <br>
                              This electronic message contains
                              information which may be privileged or
                              confidential. The information is intended
                              to be for the exclusive use of the
                              individual(s) named above and further
                              non-explicilty authorized disclosure,
                              copying, distribution or use of the
                              contents of this information, even if
                              partially, including attached files, is
                              strictly prohibited and will be considered
                              a criminal offense. If you are not the
                              intended recipient be aware that any
                              disclosure, copying, distribution or use
                              of the contents of this information, even
                              if partially, including attached files, is
                              strictly prohibited, will be considered a
                              criminal offense, so you must reply to the
                              original sender to inform about this
                              communication and delete it.<o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt">_______________________________________________<br>
                            RPD mailing list<br>
                            <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                            <a
                              href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><br>
                        <br>
                        <o:p></o:p></p>
                      <pre style="margin-left:106.2pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre style="margin-left:106.2pt">RPD mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre style="margin-left:106.2pt"><a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                      <pre style="margin-left:106.2pt"><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
                    </blockquote>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:106.2pt">_______________________________________________
                      RPD mailing list <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
                      <a
                        href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
                      <o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
                      **********************************************<br>
                      IPv4 is over<br>
                      Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
                      <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                      The IPv6 Company<br>
                      <br>
                      This electronic message contains information which
                      may be privileged or confidential. The information
                      is intended to be for the exclusive use of the
                      individual(s) named above and further
                      non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying,
                      distribution or use of the contents of this
                      information, even if partially, including attached
                      files, is strictly prohibited and will be
                      considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
                      intended recipient be aware that any disclosure,
                      copying, distribution or use of the contents of
                      this information, even if partially, including
                      attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be
                      considered a criminal offense, so you must reply
                      to the original sender to inform about this
                      communication and delete it.<br>
                      <br>
                      _______________________________________________
                      RPD mailing list <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
                      <a
                        href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
                      <o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
                    **********************************************<br>
                    IPv4 is over<br>
                    Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
                    <a href="http://www.theipv6company.com"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
                    The IPv6 Company<br>
                    <br>
                    This electronic message contains information which
                    may be privileged or confidential. The information
                    is intended to be for the exclusive use of the
                    individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
                    authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use
                    of the contents of this information, even if
                    partially, including attached files, is strictly
                    prohibited and will be considered a criminal
                    offense. If you are not the intended recipient be
                    aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
                    use of the contents of this information, even if
                    partially, including attached files, is strictly
                    prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense,
                    so you must reply to the original sender to inform
                    about this communication and delete it.<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<br>
                  RPD mailing list<br>
                  <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
                  <a
                    href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<br>
              RPD mailing list<br>
              <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
              <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><o:p></o:p></p>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      **********************************************<br>
      IPv4 is over<br>
      Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.theipv6company.com">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
      The IPv6 Company<br>
      <br>
      This electronic message contains information which may be
      privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for
      the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further
      non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use
      of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
      attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a
      criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware
      that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents
      of this information, even if partially, including attached files,
      is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so
      you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
      communication and delete it.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>