<div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 19.5pt 0cm 0cm;line-height:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"><font face="arial, sans-serif" style="">Hello Jaco, <br>
<br>
Let me explain again in a simpler form.<br>
<br>
1. I do agree we should have abuse-c in whois. <br>
2. I even agree to make it mandatory . <br>
<br>
What I do not agree with is to make abuse-c any different from other mandatory
contact.<br>
<br>
Here is policy text for admin-c and tech-c:<br>
<br>
<i style="">7.5.1 Registering contact persons<br>
Administrative and technical contact persons must be registered for each ASN
assigned. The registered administrative contact ('admin-c') is the person
responsible for the ASN and should generally be someone who is physically
located at the site of the AS.<br>
The technical contact ('tech-c') need not be physically located at the site of
the AS but must be a person who is responsible for the day-to-day operation of
that AS.<br>
</i><br>
I suggest this policy should remove the entire 8.X section, and instead, just have
one line at 7.5.1, (adding one sentence below tech-c) <b style="">“The abuse
contact("abuse-c") should be a person who can handle abuse issues on
the network, and it is for network to
communicate each other on abuse issues.”</b> Just like how we treat other
mandatory contact attribute in the whois, if someone creates an object without
it, the system returns to error, just like admin-c or tech-c.<br>
<br>
And problem solved, what you are concerned with have been addressed at 100%.
And on a side note, if a network is a responsible network, I believe they all
already have an abuse contact there, since it was a function of whois many
versions ago, and for the ones who never care for abuse (mostly large
residential telecoms), I doubt what we do here would matter much in the real
world. </font></span></p><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 19.5pt 0cm 0cm;line-height:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Regards,</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 19.5pt 0cm 0cm;line-height:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 19.5pt 0cm 0cm;line-height:normal;vertical-align:baseline"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"><font face="arial, sans-serif" style="">Lamiaa</font></span></p><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 22 sept. 2020 à 12:30, Jaco Kroon <<a href="mailto:jaco@uls.co.za">jaco@uls.co.za</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p>Hi Lamiaa,</p>
On 2020/09/22 10:32, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">Hello
again Jordi,</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">Of
course I can choose NOT TO REPLY, this is
my network, and I decide how I
want to run it. Everyday I ignore tons of
</span><span lang="EN-US">e-mails</span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">
and they go to a folder called spam, and
it is entirely up to me to decide
IN MY NETWORK what I consider spam. I
think you fundamentally mix up the
concept of "management of IP address
registration" with
"management of network". AFRINIC only has
a mandate to manage
registration of IP numbers, it does not
have the </span></font></p>
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<p>No. I suspect Jordi knows a fair amount of the difference. More
so than most.<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">capacity
or mandate to manage
networks. And once you get that, you will
also understand why your dashboard
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<p>Nobody is asking Afrinic to manage any networks. We're asking
them to help those of that want to be good netizens to enable us
to do that, by ensuring that contact can be made with other
networks for the purposes of resolving abuse related problems. My
experience says that usually these disputes are between customers
of ISPs but they insist that the ISPs should do something about
it. So short of me dropping your entire set of prefixes, I'd
prefer to be able to make contact with you in order to look for a
resolution. Personally, I'm not worried about screaming insults
and the like, those or nitty gritty issues people should sort out
themselves, but what happens if a customer of yours is actively
trying to hack on of mine? Or the other way around? Would you
prefer we all just drop each other's routes and never actually
resolve anything?<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">policy,
your hijacking as policy violation, your
over-intrusive management
clause in abuse-c get pushed back very
hard in RIPE. Hands off my network, as
Randy Bush famously said. <br>
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<p>I am sorry, in my opinion you're out of line here, that is
bordering on a personal attack on Jordi, we're all trying to make
this Internet a better place. As is Jordi. Whilst I do not agree
with him on everything, what is it to you have a single email
address that people can mail you on? Honestly, nobody said you're
not allowed to filter spam on that. Again, you choose what is
spam and not. We're asking you to be responsible. Basically by
saying you refuse to publish an abuse contact you're effectively
being an elitist stating that your network is so perfect that
there is no reason anyone would ever need to contact you in an
attempt to resolve a (probably) legitimate issue.<br>
</p>
<p>My response to that would be: So why should I route your
traffic? Why shouldn't I just outright reject all your prefixes?<br>
</p>
<p>By enabling networks to contact each other via an abuse contact
it enables all of us to communicate better, towards sorting out
real issues. If you don't want to be part of the solution, my
personal opinion is that you should not form part of the internet.
My opinion is that by making abuse related contact more reliable
we're improving the overall networking landscape. You're still
welcome to ignore contact you don't consider legitimate. But know
that that leaves us few options if you do ignore a legitimate
issues.<br>
</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">And why on earth does a
network have to give AFRINIC
their confidential data? Networks have
already </span><span lang="EN-US">showed</span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">
technical need during the application
process and done correct registration
of their numbers, and they are done with
AFRINIC from this point on. How they
manage a network is entirely out of the
scope of AFRINIC.</span></font></p>
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<p>No one is asking for confidential data. We're asking for a
contact where we can make contact with you in a case where of my
customers and one of yours have issues with each other, in order
to get problems / issues / disputes / whatever resolved amicably
instead of via lawyers, so by all means, if you prefer me first
suing Afrinic for your contact details, and then suing you for
damages + costs ... guess we can go that route too.</p>
<p>Alternatively I can file abuse complaints against you with your
transit providers and if they agree with me, it's not just one or
two of your customers that's going to face difficulty, it's going
to be all of them.</p>
<p>Either way, with an attitude like yours I'm fairly certain not
many people will think twice about dropping your prefixes.<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:18pt;vertical-align:baseline"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">As
for my perspective, it is really simple,
for the
good of the internet and for the future of
this region, we are not making
policies for individual networks, but
rather policies impacting billions of
people's internet access, and it needs to
be abundantly clear on what we can do
and what is not for us to decide. Yes, you
are right, all networks should be run
responsively, just like all your
neighbors shouldn't play loud
music after 10pm, but that doesn't mean
you can force your local church to
arrest them and ban them from Sunday
service. Same with abuse, if a network is
running abusively, police will find them
and shut them down--again, not
AFRINIC's business.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:18pt;vertical-align:baseline">Yes,
you're right. This policy is for improving the internet for
billions of people, by enabling networks to contact each other to
resolve abuse related issues such that the internet can remain an
open and friendly place by eliminating the problems. An abuse
contact allows us to achieve exactly that. Without it, no one is
going to contact you regarding individual customers of yours,
enabling you to take action against your individual customers, or
to work with your customers to resolve problems, they're going to
track down your transit providers, and they're going to get your
entire network isolated and de-routed. You leave them no other
choices.<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:18pt;vertical-align:baseline"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Kind Regards,<br>
Jaco</font></p>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 21 sept. 2020 à 15:42,
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi Lamiaa,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Internet is about cooperation, I don’t
think you can choose “not to reply”. You can choose
“not to consider it an abuse”, but not reply at all,
in my opinion, will be against the correct management
of the resources, which you’re bound as an AFRINIC
member. You can choose to no reply to victims if they
insist in something that you told them is not an
abuse, that’s fine, but you must reply to AFRINIC for
the validation of any data, whois, etc.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Regarding how you run your network, I’m
trying to understand your perspective, that’s it.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El
21/9/20 14:46, "Lamiaa Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
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Jordi,</span></p>
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<pre style="margin-left:54.9pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">You keep mixing up two very simple concepts, it is ok for AFRINIC to include abuse-c as part of whois registration, just like admin-c or tech-c. But IT IS ENTIRELY absurd to have AFRINIC to verify how members reply to their Email, even down to the subject line. It is entirely the network's right to choose NOT to reply to that "victim ISP" at all because it doesn't think this is an abuse. </span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"></span></pre>
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<pre style="margin-left:54.9pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">And again you keep asking about my personal network and how I run it, and which is entirely irrelevant to this policy discussion. You can not disqualify people by disallowing anyone not running a network in this list, so what is your point? People discussing here who are running networks or not are none of anyone's business and is not relevant to the discussion of this policy.</span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"></span></pre>
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<pre style="margin-left:54.9pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"> </span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:54.9pt;vertical-align:baseline;box-sizing:border-box;outline:0px;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Regards,</span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:54.9pt;vertical-align:baseline;box-sizing:border-box;outline:0px;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"> </span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:54.9pt;vertical-align:baseline;box-sizing:border-box;outline:0px;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Lamiaa</span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"></span></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Le lun.
21 sept. 2020 à 10:00, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD
<<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>> a
écrit :</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi Lamiaa,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">8.3 and
8.4 are making sure that you respond to an
abuse case, *<b>not</b>* that you *<b>recognize</b>*
it as an abuse. It is your choice to tell the
“victim ISP”, look for me this is not an
abuse, so I will not do anything about it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">AFRINIC
can’t verify this automatically, because it
doesn’t make sense that AFRINIC is “sending”
fake abuse reports to see if they get a
response.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">AFRINIC
can only send an email for the validation of
the mailbox. It is an existing mailbox? I’m
getting a response (for example, have they,
once I send the validation email, clicked the
link or went into MyAfrinic to input the
validation code?).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">8.4 also
states the timing for the validation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">8.5 is the
validation itself, so I guess, according to
your response, that you’re ok with this
specific point. If we don’t have it, AFRINIC
can’t do a periodic validation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">8.6. is
making sure that you don’t try to fake the
validation. For instance, you could respond
only to AFRINIC validations and then discard
all the other emails. If we don’t have that,
the policy may become useless. Note also that
in fact, if you follow the RSA, *<b>anyone</b>*
could escalate *<b>any</b>* lack of CPM
compliance. So this is making sure that the
policy text is honest and transparent.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Or do you
prefer to be filtered because you don’t
respond?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Clearly
this proposal is not asking AFRINIC to be a
police. Is only making sure that the parties *<b>can
talk</b>*. Again: AFRINIC will not be
involved in “how you handle the case”, but I
least you should be able to be contacted and
respond.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">See this
example:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">If AK or Moses customers are
sending me spam, or trying to intrude my
network, and they have abuse contacts, I will
be able to complain to them. Then we have two
cases:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.8pt"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">1.</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Moses responds to me and say
“you’re right, this is against our AUP” (is
irrelevant what the law in Moses country say,
it is the contract with customers what says
what is allowed or not). Let’s fix it. I will
warn the customer, and if they don’t stop, we
will filter their email port, or even cancel
the contract (just examples, only Moses can
decide what they do).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.8pt"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">2.</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">AK instead doesn’t care, or the
mailbox is full or bouncing emails or respond
“sorry in our network we allow that”. Then I
can take my own decision, filter only that IP
address, or the complete AK network. I can
even see if this is allowed in his country and
take legal actions (which usually you don’t do
because is costly and more of the regulations
don’t know “anything” about abuse or even
Internet!).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">AFRINIC
will not take any measure if AK decides that
is not an abuse. It is our problem not AFRINIC
problem. However, if the email is bouncing,
AFRINIC will revalidate the abuse-c and make
sure that it works.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Is like a phone book. You have
there the phones and they must be correct, or
you need to update them every “n” months. The
phone book doesn’t tell the purpose of each
phone. If you don’t want to accept calls
related to “ordering pizzas”, you tell the
caller “this number is not for that”, but at
least you must pick up the phone otherwise,
you don’t know if it is somebody calling by
error or someone that you really want to talk.
And this is true for *<b>every</b>* whois
contact.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Can you
let us know how do you handle it in the
networks that you operate?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">El 21/9/20 10:00,
"Lamiaa Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Hi
Fernando, </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">I
think you are very confused. I never said I
have a problem with people completing their
registration. Keep registration---having an
abuse contact Email in the whois, just like
tech contact or admin contact--I am perfectly
fine with it, and I think the current policy
achieves 99% it, if you want to add this
contact as mandatory field I am fine with it
as well.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> But
the problem of this policy in 8.3-8.6, is that
it requires AFRINIC to monitor the members HOW
to manage their abuse mailbox down to the
subject line, and that is out of the scope of
AFRINIC, just read my last email with logic in
mind and you will understand. I suggest this
policy should be very simple, adding one line
to the current policy-- abuse contact is
mandatory, and it's done, everything else
should be deleted.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">And
again, you are trying to use AFRINIC for
something that is not in its scope, how
someone manages their mailbox is not in the
scope of AFRINIC, it is like you go to your
local church to ask them to arrest your
neighbour who plays loud music at night when
you should go to police instead. Same thing
for someone running an abusive network, as
many already stated, it is up to a local Jury
to decide if it is simply at an annoying level
or a criminal offense, but either way please
do go to your local police to report it.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">As
for the internet, we never tell you how to
behave--you are entirely at your rights in the
internet to behave abusively, but it is also
entirely in everyone's rights to block you,
that's how de-centralizing works, no central
governing, everyone plays nice because that's
the only way for everyone else to play with
you, and this policy here asks AFRINIC to act
like a central government even down to manage
people's mailbox's subject line and that is
way beyond what internet meant to be.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Regards,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Lamiaa</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Le dim. 20
sept. 2020 à 23:42, Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
a écrit :</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
On 19/09/2020 13:19, Lamiaa Chnayti
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><br clear="all">
<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><clip></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black" lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">How is it in the scope of AFRINIC to decide how I manage my abuse mailbox? If I want to reply only to a specific subject line of my abuse box, it is entirely in my right to do. Even if I don't want to reply at the abuse mailbox at all, that is my right to do so and if I think no action in my network would be considered abuse (although unlikely), but it is still from the internet community point of view, entirely in my right to do so. You might choose to block me as a network, but that is also your right. </span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US"> </span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">The reason internet is called INTER-NET is because of its decentralized nature, you have to play nice for others to play with you, but this community never forces anyone to play nice, it is not in the scope of AFRINIC to decide how members reply to their abuse mailbox, so if 8.3,8.4, 8.5 and 8.6 are deleted in its entirety, I might consider supporting it. Also Jordi, I feel you always have this central management type of thinking, and that is so not internet.</span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left:70.8pt">It is not in
the scope of any RIR how anyone manage
people's<br>
<br>
mailboxes.<br>
<br>
<br>
Nobody exists alone in the Internet. If
an organization<br>
<br>
hypothetically doesn't care at all and
refuses to respond to abuse<br>
<br>
emails it probably should re-think its
existence in the Internet<br>
<br>
business.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt">The
Internet is what is among many reasons
because of the<br>
<br>
cooperation among its organizations, and
there are certain rules<br>
<br>
that are agreed cooperatively and must
be observed by everyone<br>
<br>
willing remain on it, otherwise it may
in many cases cause serious<br>
<br>
damage to those willing to operate in
serious manner and keep it a<br>
<br>
healthy place to most people who depend
on it.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p style="margin-left:70.8pt">This forum
is about setting rules on how
registration information<br>
<br>
about resources are kept and it may be
of the wish of the<br>
<br>
community to refuse keep registration
for those who repetitively<br>
<br>
abuse of their individual rights.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt">Fernando</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US"> </span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US"> </span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">Lamiaa</span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt">Le ven.
18 sept. 2020 à 09:23,<br>
<br>
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi Lamiaa,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">I don’t agree.
Internet doesn't depend on<br>
<br>
any jurisdiction; abuse is
about what I (the victim<br>
<br>
operator) consider abuse.
The RFC is clear about that,<br>
<br>
in short “Inappropriate
public behaviour” (is a<br>
<br>
mailbox so to be able to
contact in case there is a<br>
<br>
possible inappropriate
behaviour in the public<br>
<br>
Internet). If you want a
clearer definition, abuse is<br>
<br>
*<b>anything</b>* that I
don’t want to accept in my<br>
<br>
network because is in any
way damaging it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">If I don’t want
to accept a DoS, or spam,<br>
<br>
or phising, DMCA, or
whatever, this is abuse *<b>for<br>
<br>
me</b>*. I’ve the right to
tell you because that<br>
<br>
abuse is coming from your
network. If you believe that<br>
<br>
is not abuse (and here is
your jurisdiction in some<br>
<br>
cases, in other just doesn’t
exist, but it may be also<br>
<br>
your “business” decision –
like operators that don’t<br>
<br>
care if their customers do
spam or intrusion<br>
<br>
attempts), you’ve the right
to tell me “sorry, this is<br>
<br>
not abuse for us”, and then
I’ve the right to decide<br>
<br>
if I should filter your
network based on your<br>
<br>
response.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Not having an
abuse contact, means that<br>
<br>
I’m not able to contact you,
so we can’t talk, we<br>
<br>
can’t investigate or agree
if it is an abuse or not,<br>
<br>
so you (the offender
operator) don’t have the
chance<br>
<br>
to decide about it! Is bad
for you, is bad for me. In<br>
<br>
those cases, my best choice
is to filter you. This<br>
<br>
create problems for your
customers and my customers.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">We can’t depend
on jurisdictions, because<br>
<br>
then the policy will need to
consider inter-relations<br>
<br>
among every possible “pairs”
of country worlds, and we<br>
<br>
will need to update the
policy based on any<br>
<br>
jurisdiction change. The
policy is not about that, is<br>
<br>
about having a valid
responsible contact, not
about<br>
<br>
deciding what is an abuse,
which is among the two<br>
<br>
parties.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Tell me what is
different from AFRINIC<br>
<br>
than the rest of the world,
because none of the RIRs<br>
<br>
have defined abuse in their
policies. I even don’t<br>
<br>
recall that having appeared
in the discussions!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">If<br>
<br>
you want, I’m happy to
change the title of the<br>
<br>
proposal to “supposed
abuse contact”, that may
be<br>
<br>
clearing your point?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Again,<br>
<br>
this is not about defining
what is abuse, this is<br>
<br>
among the parties. It is
about making sure that<br>
<br>
there is a valid
responsible contact in
case of<br>
<br>
anyone needs to report
what he considers an
abuse.<br>
<br>
AFRINIC will not punish
anyone that believes that<br>
<br>
his customer is not doing
an abuse because in his<br>
<br>
country is not an abuse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">El<br>
<br>
18/9/20 9:59, "Lamiaa
Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
escribió:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Hello<br>
<br>
Jordi,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">RFC2142<br>
<br>
only defines a tiny
portion of the network
abuse. In<br>
<br>
real world operation,
abuse consists of a much<br>
<br>
boarder range : DMCA(copy
rights) claims,<br>
<br>
unsolicited emails ,
phishing websites , trade
mark<br>
<br>
disputes etc. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">All<br>
<br>
those are legal issues
that vary vastly across<br>
<br>
different juridictions in
which no one but each of<br>
<br>
the juridiction’s judges
can decide if it is an<br>
<br>
abuse or an illegal
activity. Claiming that
RFC2142<br>
<br>
defines not even 1% of
real world abuse is<br>
<br>
laughable.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Regards,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Lamiaa</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Le jeu.<br>
<br>
17 sept. 2020 à 15:51,
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
via<br>
<br>
RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<br>
a écrit :</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Hi<br>
<br>
Lamiaa,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">I’ve<br>
<br>
said this
already. This
policy doesn’t<br>
<br>
enforce abuse,
it enforces that
the abuse<br>
<br>
contact is
there, and
works.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Today<br>
<br>
AFRINIC is
paying for the
cost of the<br>
<br>
abuse handling
because only a
tiny<br>
<br>
fraction of the
members has the
abuse<br>
<br>
contacts in
place.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">If<br>
<br>
the contacts in
the RIR database
aren’t<br>
<br>
actual and
accurate, this
is a clear<br>
<br>
violation of the
RSA. So what is<br>
<br>
unacceptable is
not having the
contacts,<br>
<br>
not on the other
way around.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Abuse<br>
<br>
is not defined
by the RIRs,
everybody<br>
<br>
knows it and
this is the
reason why NONE<br>
<br>
of the RIRs have
re-defined it,
because it<br>
<br>
is already
stated in
RFC2142. Can you<br>
<br>
justify why
AFRINIC is
different and
need<br>
<br>
a definition?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">How<br>
<br>
you define it in
the networks
that you<br>
<br>
operate?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">El 17/9/20<br>
<br>
10:49, "Lamiaa
Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</span></a>><br>
<br>
escribió:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Hello,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">I<br>
<br>
will have to
agree with
Lucilla on
what<br>
<br>
she said and
would like to
add to it<br>
<br>
that :</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">Firstly, Abuse<br>
<br>
enforcement is
out of scope
for RIRs.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">Secondly, RIRs<br>
<br>
have no
ability to
define what is<br>
<br>
“abuse”, one
abuse or even
criminal<br>
<br>
activity could
be entirely a
legal<br>
<br>
operation in a
different
jurisdiction.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">Finally, making<br>
<br>
a member
forcefully
reply to abuse<br>
<br>
contact Emails
are a waste of
resources<br>
<br>
and totally
pointless, it
is entirely up<br>
<br>
to the member
to define what
they think<br>
<br>
is acceptable
in their
network
operation<br>
<br>
and how they
react to it.
AFRINIC has no<br>
<br>
mandate to
force any
member to
reply to<br>
<br>
an “abuse”,
since AFRINIC
doesn’t even<br>
<br>
have the
ability to
identify what
is<br>
<br>
considered an
abuse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">Therefore the<br>
<br>
entire policy
is out of
scope for the<br>
<br>
RIR operation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">Lamiaa</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span></p>
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<pre style="margin-left:161.1pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:11.5pt"> </span></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">Le jeu. 17<br>
<br>
sept. 2020
à 07:42, JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ<br>
<br>
via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><span style="border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">rpd@afrinic.net</span></a>><br>
<br>
a écrit :</p>
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</div>
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<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
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<div>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Hi Lucilla,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Today we already have<br>
<br>
mnt-IRT, and
everybody who
operate<br>
<br>
networks
understand
what it is an<br>
<br>
abuse. If you
operate
networks you<br>
<br>
know that *<b>anything</b>*
which<br>
<br>
is a
non-authorized
use of a<br>
<br>
network is an
abuse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">If you send spam,<br>
<br>
attack
networks, try
to intrude<br>
<br>
networks,
etc., all
those are<br>
<br>
abuse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">What the policy ask<br>
<br>
is to make
sure that in
AFRINIC<br>
<br>
everybody has
an abuse
contact<br>
<br>
(today we have
mnt-IRT, but
is not<br>
<br>
mandatory, and
as a results
many<br>
<br>
African
networks are
filtered<br>
<br>
because lack
of that – and<br>
<br>
consequently
they do not
respond<br>
<br>
to abuse cases
-, which exist
in<br>
<br>
all the other
regions of the<br>
<br>
world).</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Not having an abuse<br>
<br>
means more
chances of
legal<br>
<br>
actions, more
cost, for both
the<br>
<br>
victims and
the ISPs.
Having<br>
<br>
that means
that you have
more<br>
<br>
chances to
resolve it in<br>
<br>
goodfaith.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">One of the *<b>most<br>
<br>
important</b>*
Afrinic<br>
<br>
missions is to
have accuracy
on<br>
<br>
the database,
which includes<br>
<br>
accuracy on
the contacts.
We are<br>
<br>
not fulfilling
that in this<br>
<br>
situation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Remember that *<b>all</b>*<br>
<br>
the other RIRs
have already
this<br>
<br>
kind of
policy. This
one is like<br>
<br>
the one that
has been<br>
<br>
implemented in
APNIC, and the<br>
<br>
accuracy of
the contacts
is now<br>
<br>
87.5% as
reported this
month in<br>
<br>
the last APNIC
meeting. In
that<br>
<br>
report *<b>none</b>*
of the<br>
<br>
members
indicated any
of the<br>
<br>
issues that
you indicated<br>
<br>
(didn't
happened as
well in the<br>
<br>
other
regions).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">You know who is<br>
<br>
interested in
not having
abuse<br>
<br>
contacts?
Those that use
their<br>
<br>
networks for
doing abuse<br>
<br>
(hijacking,
spam, DoS,<br>
<br>
intrusions,
etc.).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Can you explain if<br>
<br>
the network
that you
operate has<br>
<br>
an abuse
contact an how
if one<br>
<br>
of your
customes is
trying to<br>
<br>
penetrate my
network or do
a<br>
<br>
DoS, I will be
able to
contact<br>
<br>
you and if you
will do
anything<br>
<br>
or just ignore
it?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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</div>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">El<br>
<br>
17/9/20 2:21,
"lucilla
fornaro"<br>
<br>
<<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</span></a>><br>
<br>
escribió:</p>
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</div>
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</div>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Dear<br>
<br>
all,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">I<br>
<br>
have some
concerns about
the<br>
<br>
“Abuse Contact
Policy”.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">First<br>
<br>
of all, it
does not offer
a<br>
<br>
specific and
regulated<br>
<br>
description of
the term<br>
<br>
“abuse” and
this opens the<br>
<br>
door to
potentially
bigger<br>
<br>
problems: a
surplus of<br>
<br>
reports,
discrimination/legal<br>
<br>
issues, and a
waste of<br>
<br>
resources.
Around the
world,<br>
<br>
we can
perceive what
abuse is<br>
<br>
in very
different
ways.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Afrinic<br>
<br>
is not
entitled to
force<br>
<br>
members to
report abuses
and<br>
<br>
most
importantly,
this<br>
<br>
proposal does
not represent<br>
<br>
Afrinic’s
purpose.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">I,<br>
<br>
therefore,
oppose this
policy.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Thank<br>
<br>
you,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Lucilla </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Le jeu.<br>
<br>
17 sept. 2020 à 15:49,
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via<br>
<br>
RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<br>
a écrit :</p>
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</div>
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<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
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<div>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi<br>
<br>
Lamiaa,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">I’ve<br>
<br>
said this already.
This policy
doesn’t<br>
<br>
enforce abuse, it
enforces that the
abuse<br>
<br>
contact is there,
and works.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Today<br>
<br>
AFRINIC is paying
for the cost of
the abuse<br>
<br>
handling because
only a tiny
fraction of the<br>
<br>
members has the
abuse contacts in
place.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">If the<br>
<br>
contacts in the
RIR database
aren’t actual<br>
<br>
and accurate, this
is a clear
violation of<br>
<br>
the RSA. So what
is unacceptable is
not<br>
<br>
having the
contacts, not on
the other way<br>
<br>
around.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Abuse is<br>
<br>
not defined by the
RIRs, everybody
knows it<br>
<br>
and this is the
reason why NONE of
the RIRs<br>
<br>
have re-defined
it, because it is
already<br>
<br>
stated in RFC2142.
Can you justify
why<br>
<br>
AFRINIC is
different and need
a definition?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">How you<br>
<br>
define it in the
networks that you
operate?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<div>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">El 17/9/20<br>
<br>
10:49, "Lamiaa
Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
escribió:</p>
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</div>
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</div>
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</div>
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<div>
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<div>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
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</div>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">Hello,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">I<br>
<br>
will have to
agree with
Lucilla on what<br>
<br>
she said and
would like to
add to it that<br>
<br>
:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Firstly, Abuse<br>
<br>
enforcement is
out of scope for
RIRs.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Secondly, RIRs<br>
<br>
have no ability
to define what
is “abuse”,<br>
<br>
one abuse or
even criminal
activity could<br>
<br>
be entirely a
legal operation
in a<br>
<br>
different
jurisdiction.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Finally, making<br>
<br>
a member
forcefully reply
to abuse contact<br>
<br>
Emails are a
waste of
resources and<br>
<br>
totally
pointless, it is
entirely up to<br>
<br>
the member to
define what they
think is<br>
<br>
acceptable in
their network
operation and<br>
<br>
how they react
to it. AFRINIC
has no<br>
<br>
mandate to force
any member to
reply to an<br>
<br>
“abuse”, since
AFRINIC doesn’t
even have<br>
<br>
the ability to
identify what is
considered<br>
<br>
an abuse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Therefore the<br>
<br>
entire policy is
out of scope for
the RIR<br>
<br>
operation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Regards,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Lamiaa</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-left:161.1pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;color:rgb(21,21,21)"> </span></pre>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">Le jeu. 17<br>
<br>
sept. 2020
à 07:42, JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ<br>
<br>
via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<br>
a écrit :</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi<br>
<br>
Lucilla,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Today<br>
<br>
we already
have mnt-IRT,
and<br>
<br>
everybody who
operate
networks<br>
<br>
understand
what it is an
abuse. If<br>
<br>
you operate
networks you
know that *<b>anything</b>*<br>
<br>
which is a
non-authorized
use of a<br>
<br>
network is an
abuse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">If<br>
<br>
you send spam,
attack
networks, try<br>
<br>
to intrude
networks,
etc., all
those<br>
<br>
are abuse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">What<br>
<br>
the policy ask
is to make
sure that<br>
<br>
in AFRINIC
everybody has
an abuse<br>
<br>
contact (today
we have
mnt-IRT, but<br>
<br>
is not
mandatory, and
as a results<br>
<br>
many African
networks are
filtered<br>
<br>
because lack
of that – and<br>
<br>
consequently
they do not
respond to<br>
<br>
abuse cases -,
which exist in
all<br>
<br>
the other
regions of the
world).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Not
having an
abuse<br>
<br>
means more
chances of
legal<br>
<br>
actions, more
cost, for both
the<br>
<br>
victims and
the ISPs.
Having that<br>
<br>
means that you
have more
chances<br>
<br>
to resolve it
in goodfaith.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">One
of the *<b>most<br>
<br>
important</b>*
Afrinic
missions<br>
<br>
is to have
accuracy on
the<br>
<br>
database,
which includes
accuracy<br>
<br>
on the
contacts. We
are not<br>
<br>
fulfilling
that in this
situation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Remember
that *<b>all</b>*<br>
<br>
the other RIRs
have already
this<br>
<br>
kind of
policy. This
one is like<br>
<br>
the one that
has been
implemented<br>
<br>
in APNIC, and
the accuracy
of the<br>
<br>
contacts is
now 87.5% as
reported<br>
<br>
this month in
the last APNIC<br>
<br>
meeting. In
that report *<b>none</b>*<br>
<br>
of the members
indicated any
of<br>
<br>
the issues
that you
indicated<br>
<br>
(didn't
happened as
well in the<br>
<br>
other
regions).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">You
know who is<br>
<br>
interested in
not having
abuse<br>
<br>
contacts?
Those that use
their<br>
<br>
networks for
doing abuse<br>
<br>
(hijacking,
spam, DoS,
intrusions,<br>
<br>
etc.).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Can
you explain if<br>
<br>
the network
that you
operate has<br>
<br>
an abuse
contact an how
if one of<br>
<br>
your customes
is trying to<br>
<br>
penetrate my
network or do
a DoS,<br>
<br>
I will be able
to contact you
and<br>
<br>
if you will do
anything or
just<br>
<br>
ignore it?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">El<br>
<br>
17/9/20 2:21,
"lucilla
fornaro"<br>
<br>
<<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com" target="_blank">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
escribió:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Dear<br>
<br>
all,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">I<br>
<br>
have some
concerns about
the<br>
<br>
“Abuse Contact
Policy”.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">First<br>
<br>
of all, it
does not offer
a<br>
<br>
specific and
regulated<br>
<br>
description of
the term
“abuse”<br>
<br>
and this
opens the door
to<br>
<br>
potentially
bigger
problems: a<br>
<br>
surplus of
reports,<br>
<br>
discrimination/legal issues, and<br>
<br>
a waste of
resources.
Around the<br>
<br>
world, we can
perceive what<br>
<br>
abuse is in
very different
ways.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Afrinic<br>
<br>
is not
entitled to
force members<br>
<br>
to report
abuses and
most<br>
<br>
importantly,
this proposal
does<br>
<br>
not represent
Afrinic’s
purpose.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">I,<br>
<br>
therefore,
oppose this
policy.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Thank<br>
<br>
you,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Lucilla </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:177pt">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif">Lamiaa<br>
<br>
CHNAYTI</span></p>
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information is intended to<br>
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be for the exclusive use of the
individual(s) named above<br>
<br>
and further non-explicilty
authorized disclosure, copying,<br>
<br>
distribution or use of the
contents of this information,<br>
<br>
even if partially, including
attached files, is strictly<br>
<br>
prohibited and will be
considered a criminal offense.
If you<br>
<br>
are not the intended recipient
be aware that any disclosure,<br>
<br>
copying, distribution or use of
the contents of this<br>
<br>
information, even if partially,
including attached files, is<br>
<br>
strictly prohibited, will be
considered a criminal offense,<br>
<br>
so you must reply to the
original sender to inform about<br>
<br>
this communication and delete
it.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<pre style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">--
</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif">Lamiaa
CHNAYTI</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a> <a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
**********************************************<br>
IPv4 is over<br>
Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
<a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
The IPv6 Company<br>
<br>
This electronic message contains information which
may be privileged or confidential. The information
is intended to be for the exclusive use of the
individual(s) named above and further
non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying,
distribution or use of the contents of this
information, even if partially, including attached
files, is strictly prohibited and will be
considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
intended recipient be aware that any disclosure,
copying, distribution or use of the contents of
this information, even if partially, including
attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be
considered a criminal offense, so you must reply
to the original sender to inform about this
communication and delete it.</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
**********************************************<br>
IPv4 is over<br>
Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
<a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
The IPv6 Company<br>
<br>
This electronic message contains information which may be
privileged or confidential. The information is intended to
be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above
and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying,
distribution or use of the contents of this information,
even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you
are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure,
copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
information, even if partially, including attached files, is
strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense,
so you must reply to the original sender to inform about
this communication and delete it.<br>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote></div>