<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hi Jaco,</div><div><br></div><div>I think the confusion with Lamiaa stems from whether she disagrees to have an abuse contact or not. She never disagreed to have an abuse contact, rather she disagrees with AFRINIC being the one to decide what subject line a network should reply to. A bad/faulty network should be isolated - but that is not an address policy issue. For this, I have to agree with Lamiaa.</div><div><br></div><div>Sincerely, Gaby</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 7:50 PM Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Every day I get surprised with the amount of effort people put
into not making something instead of making something that works
for a collaborative place that must be the Internet.</p>
<p>AfriNic PDP defines the rules resources are registered in its
whois database and it may wish to choose not to register anymore
bad netizens which may be using the resources it received from the
RIR in a bad manner making the Internet a worst place.</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div>On 22/09/2020 08:29, Jaco Kroon wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Hi Lamiaa,</p>
On 2020/09/22 10:32, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">Hello
again Jordi,</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">Of
course I can choose NOT TO REPLY, this
is my network, and I decide how I want
to run it. Everyday I ignore tons of </span><span lang="EN-US">e-mails</span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">
and they go to a folder called spam, and
it is entirely up to me to decide IN MY
NETWORK what I consider spam. I think
you fundamentally mix up the concept of
"management of IP address registration"
with "management of network". AFRINIC
only has a mandate to manage
registration of IP numbers, it does not
have the </span></font></p>
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<p>No. I suspect Jordi knows a fair amount of the difference.
More so than most.<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">capacity
or mandate to manage networks. And once
you get that, you will also understand
why your dashboard </span></font></p>
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<p>Nobody is asking Afrinic to manage any networks. We're asking
them to help those of that want to be good netizens to enable us
to do that, by ensuring that contact can be made with other
networks for the purposes of resolving abuse related problems.
My experience says that usually these disputes are between
customers of ISPs but they insist that the ISPs should do
something about it. So short of me dropping your entire set of
prefixes, I'd prefer to be able to make contact with you in
order to look for a resolution. Personally, I'm not worried
about screaming insults and the like, those or nitty gritty
issues people should sort out themselves, but what happens if a
customer of yours is actively trying to hack on of mine? Or the
other way around? Would you prefer we all just drop each
other's routes and never actually resolve anything?<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">policy,
your hijacking as policy violation, your
over-intrusive management clause in
abuse-c get pushed back very hard in
RIPE. Hands off my network, as Randy
Bush famously said. <br>
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<p>I am sorry, in my opinion you're out of line here, that is
bordering on a personal attack on Jordi, we're all trying to
make this Internet a better place. As is Jordi. Whilst I do
not agree with him on everything, what is it to you have a
single email address that people can mail you on? Honestly,
nobody said you're not allowed to filter spam on that. Again,
you choose what is spam and not. We're asking you to be
responsible. Basically by saying you refuse to publish an abuse
contact you're effectively being an elitist stating that your
network is so perfect that there is no reason anyone would ever
need to contact you in an attempt to resolve a (probably)
legitimate issue.<br>
</p>
<p>My response to that would be: So why should I route your
traffic? Why shouldn't I just outright reject all your
prefixes?<br>
</p>
<p>By enabling networks to contact each other via an abuse contact
it enables all of us to communicate better, towards sorting out
real issues. If you don't want to be part of the solution, my
personal opinion is that you should not form part of the
internet. My opinion is that by making abuse related contact
more reliable we're improving the overall networking landscape.
You're still welcome to ignore contact you don't consider
legitimate. But know that that leaves us few options if you do
ignore a legitimate issues.<br>
</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">And why on earth does a
network have to give AFRINIC their
confidential data? Networks have already
</span><span lang="EN-US">showed</span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">
technical need during the application
process and done correct registration of
their numbers, and they are done with
AFRINIC from this point on. How they
manage a network is entirely out of the
scope of AFRINIC.</span></font></p>
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<p>No one is asking for confidential data. We're asking for a
contact where we can make contact with you in a case where of my
customers and one of yours have issues with each other, in order
to get problems / issues / disputes / whatever resolved amicably
instead of via lawyers, so by all means, if you prefer me first
suing Afrinic for your contact details, and then suing you for
damages + costs ... guess we can go that route too.</p>
<p>Alternatively I can file abuse complaints against you with your
transit providers and if they agree with me, it's not just one
or two of your customers that's going to face difficulty, it's
going to be all of them.</p>
<p>Either way, with an attitude like yours I'm fairly certain not
many people will think twice about dropping your prefixes.<br>
</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:normal"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:18pt;vertical-align:baseline"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">As
for my perspective, it is really simple,
for the good of the internet and for the
future of this region, we are not making
policies for individual networks, but
rather policies impacting billions of
people's internet access, and it needs
to be abundantly clear on what we can do
and what is not for us to decide. Yes,
you are right, all networks should be
run responsively, just like all your
neighbors shouldn't play loud music
after 10pm, but that doesn't mean you
can force your local church to arrest
them and ban them from Sunday service.
Same with abuse, if a network is running
abusively, police will find them and
shut them down--again, not AFRINIC's
business.</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:18pt;vertical-align:baseline">Yes,
you're right. This policy is for improving the internet for
billions of people, by enabling networks to contact each other
to resolve abuse related issues such that the internet can
remain an open and friendly place by eliminating the problems.
An abuse contact allows us to achieve exactly that. Without it,
no one is going to contact you regarding individual customers of
yours, enabling you to take action against your individual
customers, or to work with your customers to resolve problems,
they're going to track down your transit providers, and they're
going to get your entire network isolated and de-routed. You
leave them no other choices.<br>
</p>
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</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;line-height:18pt;vertical-align:baseline"><font face="arial, sans-serif">Kind Regards,<br>
Jaco</font></p>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le lun. 21 sept. 2020
à 15:42, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi Lamiaa,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Internet is about cooperation, I don’t
think you can choose “not to reply”. You can choose
“not to consider it an abuse”, but not reply at all,
in my opinion, will be against the correct
management of the resources, which you’re bound as
an AFRINIC member. You can choose to no reply to
victims if they insist in something that you told
them is not an abuse, that’s fine, but you must
reply to AFRINIC for the validation of any data,
whois, etc.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Regarding how you run your network, I’m
trying to understand your perspective, that’s it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El
21/9/20 14:46, "Lamiaa Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Hey Jordi,</span></p>
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<pre style="margin-left:54.9pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">You keep mixing up two very simple concepts, it is ok for AFRINIC to include abuse-c as part of whois registration, just like admin-c or tech-c. But IT IS ENTIRELY absurd to have AFRINIC to verify how members reply to their Email, even down to the subject line. It is entirely the network's right to choose NOT to reply to that "victim ISP" at all because it doesn't think this is an abuse. </span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"></span></pre>
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<pre style="margin-left:54.9pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">And again you keep asking about my personal network and how I run it, and which is entirely irrelevant to this policy discussion. You can not disqualify people by disallowing anyone not running a network in this list, so what is your point? People discussing here who are running networks or not are none of anyone's business and is not relevant to the discussion of this policy.</span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"></span></pre>
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<pre style="margin-left:54.9pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"> </span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:54.9pt;vertical-align:baseline;box-sizing:border-box;outline:0px;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Regards,</span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:54.9pt;vertical-align:baseline;box-sizing:border-box;outline:0px;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"> </span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:54.9pt;vertical-align:baseline;box-sizing:border-box;outline:0px;white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Lamiaa</span><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21)"></span></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">Le lun.
21 sept. 2020 à 10:00, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via
RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi
Lamiaa,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">8.3 and
8.4 are making sure that you respond to an
abuse case, *<b>not</b>* that you *<b>recognize</b>*
it as an abuse. It is your choice to tell
the “victim ISP”, look for me this is not an
abuse, so I will not do anything about it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">AFRINIC
can’t verify this automatically, because it
doesn’t make sense that AFRINIC is “sending”
fake abuse reports to see if they get a
response.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">AFRINIC
can only send an email for the validation of
the mailbox. It is an existing mailbox? I’m
getting a response (for example, have they,
once I send the validation email, clicked
the link or went into MyAfrinic to input the
validation code?).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">8.4 also
states the timing for the validation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">8.5 is
the validation itself, so I guess, according
to your response, that you’re ok with this
specific point. If we don’t have it, AFRINIC
can’t do a periodic validation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">8.6. is
making sure that you don’t try to fake the
validation. For instance, you could respond
only to AFRINIC validations and then discard
all the other emails. If we don’t have that,
the policy may become useless. Note also
that in fact, if you follow the RSA, *<b>anyone</b>*
could escalate *<b>any</b>* lack of CPM
compliance. So this is making sure that the
policy text is honest and transparent.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Or do
you prefer to be filtered because you don’t
respond?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Clearly
this proposal is not asking AFRINIC to be a
police. Is only making sure that the parties
*<b>can talk</b>*. Again: AFRINIC will not
be involved in “how you handle the case”,
but I least you should be able to be
contacted and respond.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">See this
example:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">If AK or Moses customers are
sending me spam, or trying to intrude my
network, and they have abuse contacts, I
will be able to complain to them. Then we
have two cases:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.8pt"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">1.</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Moses responds to me and say
“you’re right, this is against our AUP” (is
irrelevant what the law in Moses country
say, it is the contract with customers what
says what is allowed or not). Let’s fix it.
I will warn the customer, and if they don’t
stop, we will filter their email port, or
even cancel the contract (just examples,
only Moses can decide what they do).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.8pt"><span style="color:black" lang="EN-US">2.</span><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">AK instead doesn’t care, or the
mailbox is full or bouncing emails or
respond “sorry in our network we allow
that”. Then I can take my own decision,
filter only that IP address, or the complete
AK network. I can even see if this is
allowed in his country and take legal
actions (which usually you don’t do because
is costly and more of the regulations don’t
know “anything” about abuse or even
Internet!).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">AFRINIC
will not take any measure if AK decides that
is not an abuse. It is our problem not
AFRINIC problem. However, if the email is
bouncing, AFRINIC will revalidate the
abuse-c and make sure that it works.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Is like a phone book. You have
there the phones and they must be correct,
or you need to update them every “n” months.
The phone book doesn’t tell the purpose of
each phone. If you don’t want to accept
calls related to “ordering pizzas”, you tell
the caller “this number is not for that”,
but at least you must pick up the phone
otherwise, you don’t know if it is somebody
calling by error or someone that you really
want to talk. And this is true for *<b>every</b>*
whois contact.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Can you
let us know how do you handle it in the
networks that you operate?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">El 21/9/20
10:00, "Lamiaa Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>>
escribió:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Hi Fernando, </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">I think you are
very confused. I never said I have a problem
with people completing their registration.
Keep registration---having an abuse contact
Email in the whois, just like tech contact
or admin contact--I am perfectly fine with
it, and I think the current policy achieves
99% it, if you want to add this contact as
mandatory field I am fine with it as well.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> But the problem
of this policy in 8.3-8.6, is that it
requires AFRINIC to monitor the members HOW
to manage their abuse mailbox down to the
subject line, and that is out of the scope
of AFRINIC, just read my last email with
logic in mind and you will understand. I
suggest this policy should be very simple,
adding one line to the current policy--
abuse contact is mandatory, and it's done,
everything else should be deleted.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">And again, you
are trying to use AFRINIC for something that
is not in its scope, how someone manages
their mailbox is not in the scope of
AFRINIC, it is like you go to your local
church to ask them to arrest your neighbour
who plays loud music at night when you
should go to police instead. Same thing for
someone running an abusive network, as many
already stated, it is up to a local Jury to
decide if it is simply at an annoying level
or a criminal offense, but either way please
do go to your local police to report it.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">As for the
internet, we never tell you how to
behave--you are entirely at your rights in
the internet to behave abusively, but it is
also entirely in everyone's rights to block
you, that's how de-centralizing works, no
central governing, everyone plays nice
because that's the only way for everyone
else to play with you, and this policy here
asks AFRINIC to act like a central
government even down to manage people's
mailbox's subject line and that is way
beyond what internet meant to be.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Regards,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Lamiaa</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">Le dim. 20
sept. 2020 à 23:42, Fernando Frediani
<<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
a écrit :</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
On 19/09/2020 13:19, Lamiaa Chnayti
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><br clear="all">
<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><clip></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black" lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">How is it in the scope of AFRINIC to decide how I manage my abuse mailbox? If I want to reply only to a specific subject line of my abuse box, it is entirely in my right to do. Even if I don't want to reply at the abuse mailbox at all, that is my right to do so and if I think no action in my network would be considered abuse (although unlikely), but it is still from the internet community point of view, entirely in my right to do so. You might choose to block me as a network, but that is also your right. </span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US"> </span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">The reason internet is called INTER-NET is because of its decentralized nature, you have to play nice for others to play with you, but this community never forces anyone to play nice, it is not in the scope of AFRINIC to decide how members reply to their abuse mailbox, so if 8.3,8.4, 8.5 and 8.6 are deleted in its entirety, I might consider supporting it. Also Jordi, I feel you always have this central management type of thinking, and that is so not internet.</span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-left:70.8pt">It is not
in the scope of any RIR how anyone
manage people's<br>
<br>
mailboxes.<br>
<br>
<br>
Nobody exists alone in the Internet.
If an organization<br>
<br>
hypothetically doesn't care at all and
refuses to respond to abuse<br>
<br>
emails it probably should re-think its
existence in the Internet<br>
<br>
business.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt">The
Internet is what is among many reasons
because of the<br>
<br>
cooperation among its organizations,
and there are certain rules<br>
<br>
that are agreed cooperatively and must
be observed by everyone<br>
<br>
willing remain on it, otherwise it may
in many cases cause serious<br>
<br>
damage to those willing to operate in
serious manner and keep it a<br>
<br>
healthy place to most people who
depend on it.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p style="margin-left:70.8pt">This forum
is about setting rules on how
registration information<br>
<br>
about resources are kept and it may be
of the wish of the<br>
<br>
community to refuse keep registration
for those who repetitively<br>
<br>
abuse of their individual rights.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt">Fernando</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US"> </span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US"> </span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-right:19.5pt;margin-left:70.8pt;margin-bottom:0.0001pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">Lamiaa</span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt">Le ven.
18 sept. 2020 à 09:23,<br>
<br>
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD
<<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>>
a écrit :</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi Lamiaa,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">I don’t
agree. Internet doesn't
depend on<br>
<br>
any jurisdiction; abuse is
about what I (the victim<br>
<br>
operator) consider abuse.
The RFC is clear about
that,<br>
<br>
in short “Inappropriate
public behaviour” (is a<br>
<br>
mailbox so to be able to
contact in case there is a<br>
<br>
possible inappropriate
behaviour in the public<br>
<br>
Internet). If you want a
clearer definition, abuse
is<br>
<br>
*<b>anything</b>* that I
don’t want to accept in my<br>
<br>
network because is in any
way damaging it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">If I don’t
want to accept a DoS, or
spam,<br>
<br>
or phising, DMCA, or
whatever, this is abuse *<b>for<br>
<br>
me</b>*. I’ve the right
to tell you because that<br>
<br>
abuse is coming from your
network. If you believe
that<br>
<br>
is not abuse (and here is
your jurisdiction in some<br>
<br>
cases, in other just
doesn’t exist, but it may
be also<br>
<br>
your “business” decision –
like operators that don’t<br>
<br>
care if their customers do
spam or intrusion<br>
<br>
attempts), you’ve the
right to tell me “sorry,
this is<br>
<br>
not abuse for us”, and
then I’ve the right to
decide<br>
<br>
if I should filter your
network based on your<br>
<br>
response.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Not having an
abuse contact, means that<br>
<br>
I’m not able to contact
you, so we can’t talk, we<br>
<br>
can’t investigate or agree
if it is an abuse or not,<br>
<br>
so you (the offender
operator) don’t have the
chance<br>
<br>
to decide about it! Is bad
for you, is bad for me. In<br>
<br>
those cases, my best
choice is to filter you.
This<br>
<br>
create problems for your
customers and my
customers.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">We can’t
depend on jurisdictions,
because<br>
<br>
then the policy will need
to consider
inter-relations<br>
<br>
among every possible
“pairs” of country worlds,
and we<br>
<br>
will need to update the
policy based on any<br>
<br>
jurisdiction change. The
policy is not about that,
is<br>
<br>
about having a valid
responsible contact, not
about<br>
<br>
deciding what is an abuse,
which is among the two<br>
<br>
parties.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Tell me what
is different from AFRINIC<br>
<br>
than the rest of the
world, because none of the
RIRs<br>
<br>
have defined abuse in
their policies. I even
don’t<br>
<br>
recall that having
appeared in the
discussions!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">If<br>
<br>
you want, I’m happy to
change the title of the<br>
<br>
proposal to “supposed
abuse contact”, that may
be<br>
<br>
clearing your point?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Again,<br>
<br>
this is not about
defining what is abuse,
this is<br>
<br>
among the parties. It is
about making sure that<br>
<br>
there is a valid
responsible contact in
case of<br>
<br>
anyone needs to report
what he considers an
abuse.<br>
<br>
AFRINIC will not punish
anyone that believes
that<br>
<br>
his customer is not
doing an abuse because
in his<br>
<br>
country is not an abuse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">El<br>
<br>
18/9/20 9:59, "Lamiaa
Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
escribió:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Hello<br>
<br>
Jordi,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">RFC2142<br>
<br>
only defines a tiny
portion of the network
abuse. In<br>
<br>
real world operation,
abuse consists of a
much<br>
<br>
boarder range :
DMCA(copy rights)
claims,<br>
<br>
unsolicited emails ,
phishing websites ,
trade mark<br>
<br>
disputes etc. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">All<br>
<br>
those are legal issues
that vary vastly across<br>
<br>
different juridictions
in which no one but each
of<br>
<br>
the juridiction’s judges
can decide if it is an<br>
<br>
abuse or an illegal
activity. Claiming that
RFC2142<br>
<br>
defines not even 1% of
real world abuse is<br>
<br>
laughable.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Regards,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Lamiaa</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Le jeu.<br>
<br>
17 sept. 2020 à
15:51, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via<br>
<br>
RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<br>
a écrit :</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Hi<br>
<br>
Lamiaa,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">I’ve<br>
<br>
said this
already. This
policy doesn’t<br>
<br>
enforce abuse,
it enforces
that the abuse<br>
<br>
contact is
there, and
works.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Today<br>
<br>
AFRINIC is
paying for the
cost of the<br>
<br>
abuse handling
because only a
tiny<br>
<br>
fraction of
the members
has the abuse<br>
<br>
contacts in
place.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">If<br>
<br>
the contacts
in the RIR
database
aren’t<br>
<br>
actual and
accurate, this
is a clear<br>
<br>
violation of
the RSA. So
what is<br>
<br>
unacceptable
is not having
the contacts,<br>
<br>
not on the
other way
around.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Abuse<br>
<br>
is not defined
by the RIRs,
everybody<br>
<br>
knows it and
this is the
reason why
NONE<br>
<br>
of the RIRs
have
re-defined it,
because it<br>
<br>
is already
stated in
RFC2142. Can
you<br>
<br>
justify why
AFRINIC is
different and
need<br>
<br>
a definition?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">How<br>
<br>
you define it
in the
networks that
you<br>
<br>
operate?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">El 17/9/20<br>
<br>
10:49, "Lamiaa
Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</span></a>><br>
<br>
escribió:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Hello,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">I<br>
<br>
will have to
agree with
Lucilla on
what<br>
<br>
she said and
would like to
add to it<br>
<br>
that :</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">Firstly, Abuse<br>
<br>
enforcement is
out of scope
for RIRs.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">Secondly, RIRs<br>
<br>
have no
ability to
define what is<br>
<br>
“abuse”, one
abuse or even
criminal<br>
<br>
activity could
be entirely a
legal<br>
<br>
operation in a
different
jurisdiction.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">Finally, making<br>
<br>
a member
forcefully
reply to abuse<br>
<br>
contact Emails
are a waste of
resources<br>
<br>
and totally
pointless, it
is entirely up<br>
<br>
to the member
to define what
they think<br>
<br>
is acceptable
in their
network
operation<br>
<br>
and how they
react to it.
AFRINIC has no<br>
<br>
mandate to
force any
member to
reply to<br>
<br>
an “abuse”,
since AFRINIC
doesn’t even<br>
<br>
have the
ability to
identify what
is<br>
<br>
considered an
abuse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">Therefore the<br>
<br>
entire policy
is out of
scope for the<br>
<br>
RIR operation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">Lamiaa</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:12.7pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="color:rgb(21,21,21);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<pre style="margin-left:161.1pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:11.5pt"> </span></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">Le jeu. 17<br>
<br>
sept. 2020
à 07:42, JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ<br>
<br>
via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank"><span style="border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">rpd@afrinic.net</span></a>><br>
<br>
a écrit :</p>
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</div>
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<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
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<div>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Hi Lucilla,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Today we already have<br>
<br>
mnt-IRT, and
everybody who
operate<br>
<br>
networks
understand
what it is an<br>
<br>
abuse. If you
operate
networks you<br>
<br>
know that *<b>anything</b>*
which<br>
<br>
is a
non-authorized
use of a<br>
<br>
network is an
abuse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">If you send spam,<br>
<br>
attack
networks, try
to intrude<br>
<br>
networks,
etc., all
those are<br>
<br>
abuse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">What the policy ask<br>
<br>
is to make
sure that in
AFRINIC<br>
<br>
everybody has
an abuse
contact<br>
<br>
(today we have
mnt-IRT, but
is not<br>
<br>
mandatory, and
as a results
many<br>
<br>
African
networks are
filtered<br>
<br>
because lack
of that – and<br>
<br>
consequently
they do not
respond<br>
<br>
to abuse cases
-, which exist
in<br>
<br>
all the other
regions of the<br>
<br>
world).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Not having an abuse<br>
<br>
means more
chances of
legal<br>
<br>
actions, more
cost, for both
the<br>
<br>
victims and
the ISPs.
Having<br>
<br>
that means
that you have
more<br>
<br>
chances to
resolve it in<br>
<br>
goodfaith.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">One of the *<b>most<br>
<br>
important</b>*
Afrinic<br>
<br>
missions is to
have accuracy
on<br>
<br>
the database,
which includes<br>
<br>
accuracy on
the contacts.
We are<br>
<br>
not fulfilling
that in this<br>
<br>
situation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Remember that *<b>all</b>*<br>
<br>
the other RIRs
have already
this<br>
<br>
kind of
policy. This
one is like<br>
<br>
the one that
has been<br>
<br>
implemented in
APNIC, and the<br>
<br>
accuracy of
the contacts
is now<br>
<br>
87.5% as
reported this
month in<br>
<br>
the last APNIC
meeting. In
that<br>
<br>
report *<b>none</b>*
of the<br>
<br>
members
indicated any
of the<br>
<br>
issues that
you indicated<br>
<br>
(didn't
happened as
well in the<br>
<br>
other
regions).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">You know who is<br>
<br>
interested in
not having
abuse<br>
<br>
contacts?
Those that use
their<br>
<br>
networks for
doing abuse<br>
<br>
(hijacking,
spam, DoS,<br>
<br>
intrusions,
etc.).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Can you explain if<br>
<br>
the network
that you
operate has<br>
<br>
an abuse
contact an how
if one<br>
<br>
of your
customes is
trying to<br>
<br>
penetrate my
network or do
a<br>
<br>
DoS, I will be
able to
contact<br>
<br>
you and if you
will do
anything<br>
<br>
or just ignore
it?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">El<br>
<br>
17/9/20 2:21,
"lucilla
fornaro"<br>
<br>
<<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</span></a>><br>
<br>
escribió:</p>
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</div>
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</div>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Dear<br>
<br>
all,</p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">I<br>
<br>
have some
concerns about
the<br>
<br>
“Abuse Contact
Policy”.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">First<br>
<br>
of all, it
does not offer
a<br>
<br>
specific and
regulated<br>
<br>
description of
the term<br>
<br>
“abuse” and
this opens the<br>
<br>
door to
potentially
bigger<br>
<br>
problems: a
surplus of<br>
<br>
reports,
discrimination/legal<br>
<br>
issues, and a
waste of<br>
<br>
resources.
Around the
world,<br>
<br>
we can
perceive what
abuse is<br>
<br>
in very
different
ways.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Afrinic<br>
<br>
is not
entitled to
force<br>
<br>
members to
report abuses
and<br>
<br>
most
importantly,
this<br>
<br>
proposal does
not represent<br>
<br>
Afrinic’s
purpose.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">I,<br>
<br>
therefore,
oppose this
policy.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Thank<br>
<br>
you,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Lucilla </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt">Le jeu.<br>
<br>
17 sept. 2020 à 15:49,
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
via<br>
<br>
RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<br>
a écrit :</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi<br>
<br>
Lamiaa,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">I’ve<br>
<br>
said this
already. This
policy doesn’t<br>
<br>
enforce abuse,
it enforces that
the abuse<br>
<br>
contact is
there, and
works.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Today<br>
<br>
AFRINIC is
paying for the
cost of the
abuse<br>
<br>
handling because
only a tiny
fraction of the<br>
<br>
members has the
abuse contacts
in place.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">If
the<br>
<br>
contacts in the
RIR database
aren’t actual<br>
<br>
and accurate,
this is a clear
violation of<br>
<br>
the RSA. So what
is unacceptable
is not<br>
<br>
having the
contacts, not on
the other way<br>
<br>
around.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Abuse
is<br>
<br>
not defined by
the RIRs,
everybody knows
it<br>
<br>
and this is the
reason why NONE
of the RIRs<br>
<br>
have re-defined
it, because it
is already<br>
<br>
stated in
RFC2142. Can you
justify why<br>
<br>
AFRINIC is
different and
need a
definition?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">How
you<br>
<br>
define it in the
networks that
you operate?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">El 17/9/20<br>
<br>
10:49, "Lamiaa
Chnayti" <<a href="mailto:lamiaachnayti@gmail.com" target="_blank">lamiaachnayti@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
escribió:</p>
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</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">Hello,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)" lang="EN-US">I<br>
<br>
will have to
agree with
Lucilla on
what<br>
<br>
she said and
would like to
add to it that<br>
<br>
:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Firstly, Abuse<br>
<br>
enforcement is
out of scope
for RIRs.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Secondly, RIRs<br>
<br>
have no
ability to
define what is
“abuse”,<br>
<br>
one abuse or
even criminal
activity could<br>
<br>
be entirely a
legal
operation in a<br>
<br>
different
jurisdiction.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Finally, making<br>
<br>
a member
forcefully
reply to abuse
contact<br>
<br>
Emails are a
waste of
resources and<br>
<br>
totally
pointless, it
is entirely up
to<br>
<br>
the member to
define what
they think is<br>
<br>
acceptable in
their network
operation and<br>
<br>
how they react
to it. AFRINIC
has no<br>
<br>
mandate to
force any
member to
reply to an<br>
<br>
“abuse”, since
AFRINIC
doesn’t even
have<br>
<br>
the ability to
identify what
is considered<br>
<br>
an abuse.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Therefore the<br>
<br>
entire policy
is out of
scope for the
RIR<br>
<br>
operation.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Regards,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:8pt;margin-left:161.1pt;line-height:105%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(21,21,21)">Lamiaa</span></p>
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<pre style="margin-left:161.1pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;color:rgb(21,21,21)"> </span></pre>
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</div>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt">Le jeu. 17<br>
<br>
sept. 2020
à 07:42, JORDI
PALET MARTINEZ<br>
<br>
via RPD <<a href="mailto:rpd@afrinic.net" target="_blank">rpd@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<br>
a écrit :</p>
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</div>
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<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt">
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<div>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Hi<br>
<br>
Lucilla,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">Today<br>
<br>
we already
have mnt-IRT,
and<br>
<br>
everybody who
operate
networks<br>
<br>
understand
what it is an
abuse. If<br>
<br>
you operate
networks you
know that *<b>anything</b>*<br>
<br>
which is a
non-authorized
use of a<br>
<br>
network is an
abuse.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">If<br>
<br>
you send spam,
attack
networks, try<br>
<br>
to intrude
networks,
etc., all
those<br>
<br>
are abuse.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US">What<br>
<br>
the policy ask
is to make
sure that<br>
<br>
in AFRINIC
everybody has
an abuse<br>
<br>
contact (today
we have
mnt-IRT, but<br>
<br>
is not
mandatory, and
as a results<br>
<br>
many African
networks are
filtered<br>
<br>
because lack
of that – and<br>
<br>
consequently
they do not
respond to<br>
<br>
abuse cases -,
which exist in
all<br>
<br>
the other
regions of the
world).</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Not
having an
abuse<br>
<br>
means more
chances of
legal<br>
<br>
actions, more
cost, for both
the<br>
<br>
victims and
the ISPs.
Having that<br>
<br>
means that you
have more
chances<br>
<br>
to resolve it
in goodfaith.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">One
of the *<b>most<br>
<br>
important</b>*
Afrinic
missions<br>
<br>
is to have
accuracy on
the<br>
<br>
database,
which includes
accuracy<br>
<br>
on the
contacts. We
are not<br>
<br>
fulfilling
that in this
situation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Remember
that *<b>all</b>*<br>
<br>
the other RIRs
have already
this<br>
<br>
kind of
policy. This
one is like<br>
<br>
the one that
has been
implemented<br>
<br>
in APNIC, and
the accuracy
of the<br>
<br>
contacts is
now 87.5% as
reported<br>
<br>
this month in
the last APNIC<br>
<br>
meeting. In
that report *<b>none</b>*<br>
<br>
of the members
indicated any
of<br>
<br>
the issues
that you
indicated<br>
<br>
(didn't
happened as
well in the<br>
<br>
other
regions).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">You
know who is<br>
<br>
interested in
not having
abuse<br>
<br>
contacts?
Those that use
their<br>
<br>
networks for
doing abuse<br>
<br>
(hijacking,
spam, DoS,
intrusions,<br>
<br>
etc.).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Can
you explain if<br>
<br>
the network
that you
operate has<br>
<br>
an abuse
contact an how
if one of<br>
<br>
your customes
is trying to<br>
<br>
penetrate my
network or do
a DoS,<br>
<br>
I will be able
to contact you
and<br>
<br>
if you will do
anything or
just<br>
<br>
ignore it?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">Jordi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US">@jordipalet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:141.6pt"><span style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">El<br>
<br>
17/9/20 2:21,
"lucilla
fornaro"<br>
<br>
<<a href="mailto:lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com" target="_blank">lucillafornarosawamoto@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
escribió:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Dear<br>
<br>
all,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">I<br>
<br>
have some
concerns about
the<br>
<br>
“Abuse Contact
Policy”.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">First<br>
<br>
of all, it
does not offer
a<br>
<br>
specific and
regulated<br>
<br>
description of
the term
“abuse”<br>
<br>
and this
opens the door
to<br>
<br>
potentially
bigger
problems: a<br>
<br>
surplus of
reports,<br>
<br>
discrimination/legal issues, and<br>
<br>
a waste of
resources.
Around the<br>
<br>
world, we can
perceive what<br>
<br>
abuse is in
very different
ways.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Afrinic<br>
<br>
is not
entitled to
force members<br>
<br>
to report
abuses and
most<br>
<br>
importantly,
this proposal
does<br>
<br>
not represent
Afrinic’s
purpose.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">I,<br>
<br>
therefore,
oppose this
policy.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Thank<br>
<br>
you,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:177pt">Lucilla </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:106.2pt"><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif">Lamiaa<br>
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CHNAYTI</span></p>
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distribution or use of the
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<pre style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:70.8pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">--
</p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"><span style="font-family:Georgia,serif">Lamiaa CHNAYTI</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:70.8pt">_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list <a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
**********************************************<br>
IPv4 is over<br>
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The IPv6 Company<br>
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This electronic message contains information
which may be privileged or confidential. The
information is intended to be for the exclusive
use of the individual(s) named above and further
non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying,
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information, even if partially, including
attached files, is strictly prohibited and will
be considered a criminal offense. If you are not
the intended recipient be aware that any
disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the
contents of this information, even if partially,
including attached files, is strictly
prohibited, will be considered a criminal
offense, so you must reply to the original
sender to inform about this communication and
delete it.</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
**********************************************<br>
IPv4 is over<br>
Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br>
<a href="http://www.theipv6company.com" target="_blank">http://www.theipv6company.com</a><br>
The IPv6 Company<br>
<br>
This electronic message contains information which may be
privileged or confidential. The information is intended to
be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above
and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying,
distribution or use of the contents of this information,
even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If
you are not the intended recipient be aware that any
disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents
of this information, even if partially, including attached
files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a
criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender
to inform about this communication and delete it.<br>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
RPD mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:RPD@afrinic.net" target="_blank">RPD@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>